What are Khorne Berzerkers Based From

[BloodWolves]

Just wondering if anyone knows what the Khorne Berzerkers are historically modelled after? ie. Ultramarines = Roman/ Greek, Black Templars = Teutonic/ Templar Knights etc.

[Azekai]

Not everything in 40k has a strong historical analogue. Noise Marines don’t. But Khorne berserkers have some similarities to the mythology of Norse Berserkers. Unthinking blind rage, bloodlust, reputation for barbarism, etc.

 

It isn’t perfect, of course, and many details about Norse berserkers themselves are sketchy, but l think they are as close as you get.

[BloodWolves]

Noise Marines make me think of like 80's hair bands. But hey thanks!! Ill look those up!

[Surreal Cruelty]

Noise Marines make me think of like 80's hair bands. But hey thanks!!

Noise Marines ARE a hair metal band

 

The original concepts behind the World Eaters were sort of a combination of Roman/Greek martial discipline and Gladiators, with the berzerkers being a corruption of those ideals.  A lot like the Ultramarines, though with more emphasis on marital prowess and honor between warriors being the only real virtues.  They never really had much patience with the weak.  Think Spartans and Gladiators rather than Roman legions.

[Cheex]

Probably based off the origin of the word 'berserker'.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

[Closet Skeleton]

It isn’t perfect, of course, and many details about Norse berserkers themselves are sketchy, but l think they are as close as you get.

 

Berserkers are basically legendary, but there's still 200 years of speculation that gives us the modern English word.

 

Khorne berserkers are based more off the word than anything norse though. Warriors with magic rage powers are quite common in mythology, with Hercules being the main one but western Europe also has Orlando and Cú Chulainn who are much more the inspiration behind the Norse berserker than anything from the actual Viking period (there are guys with super rage powers in Norse Sagas but they're mostly Christian kings who are never called berserkers).

 

There are also berserk warriors in Malay culture ("Amok", which is supposedly what is called a "culturally specific syndrome" despite being a lone word so useful most people don't release it isn't an English word), which may have influenced 19th century speculation around the berserker concept.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Also, everything Khorne has strong influence from Celitc legends across Europe (and some Roman interpretations of those legends): Towers of skulls, among which the finest are revered, an obsession with blood and decapitation, cauldrons, mystic rage powers that echo the "warp spasms" of certain Celtic heroes, mysterious smiths blessed by the gods in the tradition of Volundr/Weyland (there is even a Skullgrinder NAMED Volundr for crying out loud), hunched daemons with long tongues that call to mind Crom Cruac, and mystical hounds that inexorably pursue targets in the vein of Arawn and the Wild Hunt. You tend to see it visually in the miniatures also (especially in Age of Sigmar), large, chunky, brass pieces, lots of exposed skin, huge belts/girdles around the waist, etc.

 

The World Eaters are basically a mix of this and their Mediterranean gladiator origins.

[Surreal Cruelty]

Wanted to add something else to the comments above;

To be honest, much of the foundational inspiration for the forces of chaos (not just the World Eaters) comes more from artistic sources inspired by history (and not always accurately).  All of this was originally written before Wikipedia, where even the basic information you can find on Wikipedia about a subject now; you could only get if you read literally dozens of books and research papers at a good library.  Artistically and thematically, a lot of the forces of Chaos (the World Eaters in particular) come from heavy metal music as much as actual historic themes.  In particular heavy metal idealization and idolizing of ancient, savage warriors and a glorification of might, wrath, anger and 'eternal war' that is a pretty common theme in heavy metal music.

 

This is really true about most of Warhammer 40k...heavy metal music, Heavy Metal Magazine, 70's and 80's sci-fi (Mad Max, Ice Pirates, Adventures in the Forbidden Zone, Heavy Metal the movie, to a lesser extent Star Wars), throw in some dystopian satire dialed up to 11 on the absurdity, and throw it all in a blender...and Rogue Trader, Realms of Chaos, and a painting team called "Eavy Metal" are what you end up with...

[Closet Skeleton]

Also, everything Khorne has strong influence from Celitc legends across Europe (and some Roman interpretations of those legends): Towers of skulls, among which the finest are revered, an obsession with blood and decapitation, cauldrons, mystic rage powers that echo the "warp spasms" of certain Celtic heroes, mysterious smiths blessed by the gods in the tradition of Volundr/Weyland (there is even a Skullgrinder NAMED Volundr for crying out loud), hunched daemons with long tongues that call to mind Crom Cruac, and mystical hounds that inexorably pursue targets in the vein of Arawn and the Wild Hunt. You tend to see it visually in the miniatures also (especially in Age of Sigmar), large, chunky, brass pieces, lots of exposed skin, huge belts/girdles around the waist, etc.

 

The World Eaters are basically a mix of this and their Mediterranean gladiator origins.

 

Khorne is even named after Crom, though via Conan the Barbarian.

 

The whole idea that the Celts were all that into head hunting is kind of out of vogue now. Not because they didn't do it but because head hunting is quite common and by the 70s the amount of 'Cult of the Head' speculation had got so elabourate and unprovable that the Celts had in some areas of scholarship basically been reduced to a one note decapitation focused society.

 

The gladiators thing was a latter addition to the World Eater's fluff, but that's true of most of the other 'historical culture influences'. Dark Angel's weren't knights or monks until 2nd ed and Ultramarines just had one model with a Centurion's crest for a long time before any further classical themes were added.

 

 

, throw in some dystopian satire dialed up to 11 on the absurdity,

 

Which was mostly just taken from Judge Dread.

[Surreal Cruelty]

 

 

, throw in some dystopian satire dialed up to 11 on the absurdity,

 

Which was mostly just taken from Judge Dread.

 

 

And Brazil.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Also, everything Khorne has strong influence from Celitc legends across Europe (and some Roman interpretations of those legends): Towers of skulls, among which the finest are revered, an obsession with blood and decapitation, cauldrons, mystic rage powers that echo the "warp spasms" of certain Celtic heroes, mysterious smiths blessed by the gods in the tradition of Volundr/Weyland (there is even a Skullgrinder NAMED Volundr for crying out loud), hunched daemons with long tongues that call to mind Crom Cruac, and mystical hounds that inexorably pursue targets in the vein of Arawn and the Wild Hunt. You tend to see it visually in the miniatures also (especially in Age of Sigmar), large, chunky, brass pieces, lots of exposed skin, huge belts/girdles around the waist, etc.

 

The World Eaters are basically a mix of this and their Mediterranean gladiator origins.

Khorne is even named after Crom, though via Conan the Barbarian.

 

The whole idea that the Celts were all that into head hunting is kind of out of vogue now. Not because they didn't do it but because head hunting is quite common and by the 70s the amount of 'Cult of the Head' speculation had got so elabourate and unprovable that the Celts had in some areas of scholarship basically been reduced to a one note decapitation focused society.

 

The gladiators thing was a latter addition to the World Eater's fluff, but that's true of most of the other 'historical culture influences'. Dark Angel's weren't knights or monks until 2nd ed and Ultramarines just had one model with a Centurion's crest for a long time before any further classical themes were added.

 

, throw in some dystopian satire dialed up to 11 on the absurdity,

Which was mostly just taken from Judge Dread.

Agreed on all counts....there is also a lot of influence from the inventor of many of the "Chaos" tropes Michael Moorcock (who bridged fantasy lit AND heavy metal music). Elric's got Arioch is basically Khorne.

 

And while Dredd is a big influence, there's also a lot of callbacks to other 2000AD stuff like ABC Warriors.

[Panzer]

Basically everything that was popular back then found its way into 40k one way or another. Some things got dropped since then, some got warped and some are still there without being connected to the original source. ^^

[Surreal Cruelty]

Agreed on all counts....there is also a lot of influence from the inventor of many of the "Chaos" tropes Michael Moorcock (who bridged fantasy lit AND heavy metal music). Elric's got Arioch is basically Khorne.

 

And while Dredd is a big influence, there's also a lot of callbacks to other 2000AD stuff like ABC Warriors.

 

 

Dune (obviously) is also a huge literary and movie influence on Warhammer 40k, as well as a number of other movies when talking about satirical dystopias.  Though Dune lacks the humor to be social satire, and is more purely critical social commentary.

 

I was going to mention Moorcock's Eternal Champion cycle in that post above, but by the time I had thought about it, I had already gone to bed for the night.  Arioch the Knight of Swords also appears in the Corum series as well, and is another one of the Eternal Champion cycles where you see chaos in all it's unrestrained glory.  I am sure there are others, but I will admit that I have not read even a majority of the Eternal Champion novels...there are more than 40 of them.  I have just read Elric, Corum, the Eternal Champion, and a handful of others.

 

Moorcock is the biggest literary influence for Chaos, and possibly for Warhammer Fantasy (I would argue more than Tolkien or Howard, but only Rick Priestley would be able to answer that for sure).  It was noted in an interview with another GW writer, Rick Priestley thought that "Reams of Chaos" resembled Moorcock's writings too closely, and decided to expand upon it, borrowing a lot from "Paradise Lost" in later books for Chaos.

 

When I mentioned heavy metal music, I was thinking of artistic and philosophical style/interpretation of ancient warriors more than I was thinking about literary influences; if you look at a lot of heavy metal album covers the artistic influences are pretty clear.  The original Bloodthirsters even look like Motorhead's logo from the 70's.