AdMech for New 40k Player

[ierthling]

Hey y'all - I'm just getting into 40k (though have a lot of experience with miniature gaming in general), and I'm thinking about jumping in with a combo of AdMech and Knights. My current scheme is to grab the Skitarii Start Collecting, Forgebane, and a big knight, probably the Castellan, and try to put together a list in the 1500 pt vicinity to begin with. I've got a sample version of one such list below. My questions are:

 

1) Is this a reasonable shopping list for jumping into 40k? I'm not looking to be diving right into tournaments or anything, but I'd like to be able to put an army together that is both reasonably fluffy / thematic and doesn't always lose. Would it be better to drop the Castellan and grab Renegade to make a Warden and a Paladin, bump the list up to 1750 or so?

2) Am I right in thinking that Battlescribe is messing up the CPs, and that a Super-Heavy detachment with one big knight and 2 Armigers will not generate any?

3) Any thoughts or advice about the specific list below?

4) What would be your top priorities in moving from this to a 1750 / 2000 pt /  more competitive list?

 

Thanks everybody!

 

+++ AdMech Starter List (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++

 

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [48 PL, 958pts] ++

 

Household Choice: House Raven, Questor Mechanicus

 

+ Lord of War [48 PL, 958pts] +

Armiger Warglaive [9 PL, 177pts]: Meltagun [17pts]

Armiger Warglaive [9 PL, 177pts]: Meltagun [17pts]

Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: Character

Two Siegebreaker Cannons & Two Shieldbreaker Missiles [94pts]: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile [24pts], 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon [70pts]

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [37 PL, 540pts] ++

 

Forge World: Mars

 

+ HQ [14 PL, 250pts] +

 

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 125pts]: Macrostubber [2pts], Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster [8pts]

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 125pts]: Macrostubber [2pts], Omnissian Axe, Volkite Blaster [8pts]

 

+ Troops [16 PL, 150pts] +

 

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts]

Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle

 

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts]

Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle

 

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts]

Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine

 

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts]

Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine

 

+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 140pts] +

 

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 140pts]

Neutron laser & cognis heavy Stubber [50pts]: Cognis heavy stubber [5pts], Neutron Laser [45pts]

 

++ Total: [85 PL, 1498pts] ++

[Tyriks]

Welcome to the Cult Mechanicus! I would recommend Renegade first. Super versatile and great savings. Aside from that, you'll end up with a nice and diverse list. You'll want a few of the Start Collecting boxes because the Onager is great and the box is a nice deal.

[Michaelum]

1) 2 ad mech star collecting boxes is the sensible way to start. Armigers are not that great and you are getting necrons you dont want. knights are nice but speaially for small tournaments some dont allow lords of war to keep things from getting out of hand

 

2)Armigers dont give commnand points, this was made to avoid the spam to get CP with those guys

 

3) Plasma caliver on vanguards and huge rifle thingy for rangers can give them some punch

 

4) Start with Ad Mech first and work your way up as you see fit (Your playstyle). For example instead of Armigers, Sydonian Dragoons are quite cost effective.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Well, there is no reaseon not to start with a combined Ad Mech / Knight Force straight away. Won't be the most competative, especially with Mars. The Mars Dogma needs a lot of Ad Mech units on the table to get the maximum benefit. But It is still fluffy, and fluffy wins most of the time (rule of cool and such )

So you get my OK to start this way

 

For later expansion I would recommend another Start Collecting, an Enginseer and a little more Ad Mech (Bots, Dragoons, Infiltrators, Kataphrons) to taste before jumping on Renegade for Big Knight numer 2 and 3.

[Charlo]

Armigers are pretty awesome now, actually. Especially with their dirt cheap cost and houisehold rules. They give a definitive melee bite to an Ad Mech force.

 

Sadly though, no you do not get any CP for them - but with a Batallion + 3CP base you'll be on 8 which is ample for what you have.

 

If you can, I'd certainly replace one of the Dominus with an Enginseer - there is a lot of points tied up in a nice, but pretty useless HQs otherwise. Combine the two Vanguard squads into a single 10 man squad and add some special weapons in there with the points. They can then act as a good escort for the Dominus.

 

This leaves you with about 25 points left to spend @1500, so you can pop in 3 more rangers spread around the squads.

 

To bring it up to 2000, I'd add another Onager or two, then you can either go combat bite with some Sicarians or more shooting with Kastelan Robots. As other have said the Dragoons are great too (just pricey money-wise!)

 

Also, if you are going Mars then Cawl is always an option for sure - sat among some Onagers/ Robots etc he'll do some real work.

[frosteldar]

Welcome!  I started in your shoes less than 4 months ago and had an almost identical start - Forgebane and Getting Started box.  However my step-son plays Necrons, so Forgebane was a good deal!  Otherwise, I would suggest skipping Forgebane and get another Getting Started box (since you'd also get another onager) and then buy the Armiger Warglaives separately, as that may save you some money.

 

I echo what some others have said and suggest going with an Enginseer as a 2nd HQ due to points cost, and recommend putting some transauranic arquebus on your rangers and plasma calverins on the vanguard.  Also, Mars may not be the most efficient Forge World with your initial units, so play around with options.  Currently I'm running Stygies VIII to help with the first couple rounds.  

 

I recently had a game with my first Armiger Warglaive in a 40 PL game and it adds a nice melee component which can help, especially the sweep attack!  As others have said, Dragoons may be a better way to go at first as some stratagems work quite nicely with them.  Also, you don't get Knight House traits unless you have 3 in a SHD (which you do), so if you decide to run smaller games, the disadvantage is running a knight alone and not having house traits.  Whereas you could run Dragoons and still benefit from AdMech rules etc for smaller games.  

 

Otherwise, we are on similar paths!  I decided to go with a Renegade box myself (really- two of them and some Helverins too) so I can magnetize the knights and have flexibility for running big knights or a mix.  While I'm sure you are considering the Castellan because it is cool, you may get more playing flexibility with a Renegade box (cheaper knights, terrain, and option to run 2 big knights and 2 small).

 

Whatever you decide, welcome to the hobby and I look forward to seeing your forces grow!

[ierthling]

Thanks everybody - this is all really helpful! I'm still weighing some options (and considering other armies, even filthy, heretical ones, I have to admit), but I'll post something back up here when I make up my mind and starting picking stuff up! I know starting with a combined force might be unnecessarily complicated, but I'm having a hard time giving up the idea of Knights. And with Forgebane, my thinking was I would just chuck the Necron sprues up on eBay, which would make the Forgebane box less of a waste of cash, but I honestly formulated that plan before I totally understood the Armiger / CP thing. Anyway, really appreciate your thoughts on all this! More soon...

[Tyriks]

Don't give up on Knight! They're amazing models and a lot of fun. Even before the codex I had more fun running them than pure AdMech (which isn't bad but it's bland). Renegade is a great way to get started on Knights and I don't trust that it will be around forever. From both a hobby point of view and in terms of playing the game I don't think you'll regret that.

 

Plus, a good army you aren't interested in usually ends up being less fun than an okay one you love. If you like Knights get some!

[Vel'Cona]

Welcome to B&C!  I don't have anything to add that our fellow Techpriests haven't already covered, but I do look forward to seeing your force come together (perhaps in a WIP thread?) :)

[ierthling]

Thanks guys - yeah, I have a hard time letting go of the Knight idea, and I know from other games I've played that you're exactly right, Tyriks - you've gotta love it if you're going to put the time in to build, paint, and all that! To be honest, if I have a hesitation about AdMech, it's that I kind of don't love the current models for a lot of the faction - not just the Electropriests (which I gather are pretty widely reviled), but even things like the Kastelan Robots and the Kataphrons seem kinda clunky to me. So, part of the Knights attraction is, how to add cool big machines to the Skitarii, who I do really like. Anyway I'll keep you all posted, assuming I don't get lured into a different faction... 

[Trixie]

If you like the models and the fluff then that army really is the one you should be playing. Unless your main focus is frequently winning competition games, which in that case you already know that owning multiple armies is the answer to the 'is this the right way to go' question.

 

Admech models are all fairly new so from a technical view they don't have any 'old crap sculpts' in the way that some armies do (orks :D). But if you dislike the kataphrons and kastellans I suggest maybe looking at proxying them from 30k forge world mechanicum units like mymidons or castellax.

 

Your lists seem fairly fluffy and Admech are definitely an army that whilst not known for dominating games they can be built for competition. Bear in mind that the 2 main weaknesses will be 1) a lack of transports and 2) a lack of psychic defense. 

 

The lack of transports can be dealt with by playing as Lucius or Stygies, and the psyker defense can be gained via the <Imperium Keyword> Admech have access to. Inquisitor Greyfax seems solid as an option to plug one of Admechs main competitive holes.

[Tyriks]

Or a Supreme Command of Primaris Psykers. They're super cheap for 3 total denies.

[ierthling]

I love the fluff, that's a big part of the attraction, and I hadn't even thought of bringing in 30k stuff but I will look into that! Are there no Psykers / Psychic defenses native to AdMech?

[frosteldar]

I love the fluff, that's a big part of the attraction, and I hadn't even thought of bringing in 30k stuff but I will look into that! Are there no Psykers / Psychic defenses native to AdMech?

Correct, no native psykers to AdMech - afer all, that sort of witchcraft if heretical to the Omnissiah!

[Vel'Cona]

I love the fluff, that's a big part of the attraction, and I hadn't even thought of bringing in 30k stuff but I will look into that! Are there no Psykers / Psychic defenses native to AdMech?

 

I think Graia has something for that.  Though I don't have my codex handy . . .

[Stray]

I love the fluff, that's a big part of the attraction, and I hadn't even thought of bringing in 30k stuff but I will look into that! Are there no Psykers / Psychic defenses native to AdMech?

 

Just as an FYI, I believe there is something like Psychic Powers for Ad-mech in 30k called 'Cybertheurgy'. This means that, though you certainly shouldn't hold your breath, something may get ported across when GW/FW finally 'translate' the promised 30K content for 40K.

 

Trixie would very likely know more, I know she has a really nice 30K Ad-Mech type force.

[Michaelum]

 

I love the fluff, that's a big part of the attraction, and I hadn't even thought of bringing in 30k stuff but I will look into that! Are there no Psykers / Psychic defenses native to AdMech?

 

I think Graia has something for that.  Though I don't have my codex handy . . .

 

On a 4+ deny that power (I use Graia for my guys) Also love it´s fluff, since they are a group of massive space stations that can warp and move from Graia itself.

[ierthling]

That's very cool! I think I had put down Mars because I was thinking of eventually trying to add in Cawl, and I wanted to build something he could slot into. Elsewhere I see people doing things like bringing Inquisitors as a Supreme Command detachment, but that seems like something to consider further down the road. Primaris Psykers as Tyriks suggested above could work too I guess. I'll give it some thought! Thanks for helping me get started with all this y'all.

[Black Knight]

Welcome fellow new person. From what you've said it looks like you are trying to build two armies right now, partly Knight and Partly Mechanicus. It may be better, like some have suggested, to pick one for now, maybe a different army all together. The best thing you can do at the start is pick an army you either like the look of or enjoy the mechanics of so that you have the incentive to build and paint them to play them.

 

If you do choose Knights, Renegade is an amazing deal right now, two knights for the price of one and a bit and some scenery chucked in. You can always sell the scenery if you need to save some money.  Also if you want Forgebane and only the knights, as of this Saturday you can get the Armigers separately for £45(Less at a third party retailer).

 

Now if you decided to jump onto the Mechanicus train which you've shown some hesitancy about then you will want to buy a different range of models. Mechanicus is slightly different in that our non troops are superior to our troops so instead of two Batalion detachments that people like to farm for CP in a lot of armies, its better to take more heavy units and drop one of the Battalions as our heavies are really really good. In your list you have a lot of troops, the less you can take the better but you'll need some. You want Dunecrawlers, Kastellen Robots, Murder Turkeys!

 

Rangers are generally better than Vanguard unless you are going to throw them up the board. Most take 5 man Ranger teams with two of those being upgraded to Arquebuses as those guns can take wounds off most Armor, especially T7. As mentioned above two Domini is a bit overkill, one maybe for the re-rolls but the Enginseer is so much cheaper that it allows us to take more fun things like plasma on Vanguard or more Heavies.

 

If you want to take a Knight army then yes currently the Armigers do not give us any CP unless there are three Big framed knights in the detachment. But I think you can take Armigers at least in a Mechanicus army but you wont be using the Knight codex but the Mechanicus one.

 

Also currently because of the mess with the Armigers and CP(Were all waiting for a clarification on the rule as it goes against what GW is trying to do right now and that the Stream of the armies and the codex have both been shown not following this) a lot are taking 2-4 Knights and then another detachment of another army to generate 5 extra combat points.  We like the CP with our Giant Freaking Robots. Now most are taking Imperial Guard but some are taking Mechanicus instead. Definitely not as good with regenerating CP in game but you get stronger troops, basic repairs if the HQ can keep up :P This does make the Forgebance box interesting as it gives you the Armigers, Troops, one of two needed HQs for this extra detachment.

 

Tau(Spits at my screen) are also quite Meched up if you like the general Manga Style for Robots. Maybe thats a choice for you to consider?

[ierthling]

Thanks Black Knight! Yeah I'm still just trying to feel it all out. Somehow straight Knights seems dull to me, and I have zero interest in Imperial Guard, so I thought the AdMech combo might be a cool / fluffy / not totally ineffective way to go. There are lots of AdMech models I totally love, just not completely over the moon about the whole line. But I saw the announcement today about the new Forgeworld 40k rules, and those all seem like very cool models! We'll see what happens...