Bullgryns or Custodes Shield-Captains as a CC Counter-Punch?

[dakkamasta]

So I want to add a tough, punchy unit to my Guard as a counter-assault element and have been tossing up between Bullgryns and Custodes Shield-Captains on Dawneagle Jetbikes. I love the models for both and ideally I would like both but I can't justify spending that much money at the moment.

 

Initially I wanted 6-9 Bullgryns but I always wanted a small Custodes presence in my Imperium collection (I have Blood Angels as well as an Imperial Knight) and the triple Shield-Captain is the easiest and cheapest way to do it (not to mention they look wicked!). When I started looking at both I started to realise that they both fill very similar roles in a Guard list, with Bullgryns having more close combat output while the Custodes are faster and more versatile, whilst opening access to some cheeky stratagems for some fun play.

 

I understand many people would think it is cheesy to use Shield-Captains, but our meta is quite competitive. Not WAAC tournament level competitive, but we always bring pretty hard lists with a few sub-optimal, fun units sprinkled in. Also my most frequent opponent mainly plays Drukhari and Harlequins which makes me skeptical about the Bullgryns because their speed paired with facing blasters, lances and fusion pistols everywhere makes me concerned that they will get blown to bits very quickly, or kited by his ultra fast skimmers. The Shield-Captains on the other hand can keep up with them (nearly) and take the hits a bit better, not to mention shred his infantry with the hurricane bolters.

 

Anyone with experience with either of these units have any thoughts? I'm leaning more towards the Custodes but I'd love to hear your experiences.

[FallenSoldiers]

Shield captains are great, the issue is they are generally so much faster than your army it’s easy for them to get ahead, into combat, have the enemy fall back, and get shredded.

 

Played well, in a good list, they’re an awesome punch to add. Have you considered Blood Angels too? Captain Smash and company are stupidly good too.

[dakkamasta]

Yea I have considered a small Blood Angels battalion with Captain Smash and some scouts. The reason I've held off using it so far (I have all the models already) is because due to how my main opponent's armies are built (many skimmers, jetbikes, fast infantry), his damage potential is wasted on something like a Venom or Starweaver which he spaces out enough to avoid single models multi-charging. Especially since if I use the 3D6 charge stratagem he can block it using Agents of Vect.

 

I tend to avoid the Cadian style sit back and shoot lists, leaning more towards a semi-mobile force that spreads up the table (usually Catachan or Tallarn). I also sometimes throw Celestine in (-1CP with aux. detachment) so she would work quite well with the Shield-Captains I think.

 

I guess Scout Sentinels would be a good pick for distracting fire away from them? They would probably all die turn 1 but that means less guns pointed at the Captains or my tanks.

[WarriorFish]

The Shield Captain beat sticks are well known for good reason, I imagine they'll do as well for you in games (less so in making friends, perhaps!). I'm not one for "latest trends" generally, but I always think that sooner or later their star will fall so always be sure that you'll still be happy to use them past the glory days - that way it's not a bad decision ;)

 

Bullgryns are also great models (that can be magnetised for all options) and hit hard with their mauls, not to mention quite durable too and they'd naturally fit with your Guard army too but aren't fast so can't go much beyond the counter assault role. They're not as good as the captains, so it depends on what sort of addition you're after for your force - theme or effectiveness :tu:

[our_baz]

Used Bullgryns to great effect, so much so my local meta are petrified of them now. As @WF has mentioned they hit hard, even harder on the charge, add in a priest for extra an extra attack to. They can really dish out the pain. For extra durability throw in psyker too for -1 to hit or +1 to saves.

I run between 4-5 depending on points with the extra's mentioned above as a counter assault unit behind my front lines.

I find the triple shield Captain loadout a little cheesy, they certainly will be effective for you on the table. 

[MARK0SIAN]

Don’t overlook the ranged output of the Custodes. They’ll put out such a volume of shots with the hurricane bolters that units like Harlequins which rely on invulnerable saves will disintegrate.

 

3 shield captains in rapid fire range will put out 36 bolter shots that hit on 2s and reroll 1s. Not many infantry units without good armour saves can weather that.

 

Then you’ve got the CC punch of the Custodes who will reroll hits and wounds on the charge. Plus the swooping dive strat is literally a countercharge strat.

 

Finally, T6 with a 2+/4++ and 7 wounds makes them a nightmare to kill. Add in the fact that your opponent can’t even shoot them if they’re not the closest unit and, for me, they beat Bullgryns every time, apart from on price.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, if you want to be somewhat competitive, a Custodes Jetbike + IG CP battery list won London GT. It was due to terrain, sure, and the Guard was minimal. However, Custard Jetbikes are very solid. Bullgryns are fluffy though and have their own advantage, which is cost and synergy.

[dakkamasta]

Good advice all round guys, thanks.

 

@MARKOSIAN From a gameplay standpoint pretty much everything you said is what makes me lean towards the shield-captains. The majority of my games are against some form of Eldar (with Craftworlds being the least common) and the -1's to hit paired with blistering speed make many units unusable. My main opponent is also my most challenging and he will quickly learn to avoid getting within charge range of the Bullgryns until they are brought down to manageable numbers and with his mobility he can achieve this easily. Whereas the shield-captains will always be a threat.

 

From a fluff/theme standpoint, honestly from what I've read I must be the only one on the internet who thinks it's super cool to have 3 badass mofo custodians being the one-man-army that they are in the fluff. The fact that these guys can zoom into battle, unload holy bolter death before impaling the enemy with their lances is just so goddam cool. I find the 'Shoulder the Mantle' stratagem super cool as well when my Company Commander inevitably dies. 

 

I know people would call it cheesy but my lists arn't usually 100% optimised to the max, so if I used these guys I'd probably bring some softer elements to balance things out a bit. If anything it will give me more encouragement to play fun units or combos that I usually end up removing from a list due to weighing the rest down, since the goldy bois will boost the competitive edge back up a bit. 

 

I guess it looks like I've made my mind up haha. Shield-Captains it is :)

 

I will definitely get the Bullgryns towards the end of this year or early next year, but as finances are limited this is how it has to be.

[noigrim]

custodes have obsec, plus wear glorious gold

 

against drukhari I stole an objective under an archon with a bike then trashed him in two hth rounds despite the 2++save

[duz_]

Given your initial comments I think Shield Captains are what you are looking for

I like my Bullgryns they're great fun! In fact I've just bought 2 more boxes so I can run 2 squads of 4 in 2 Valks ;) :tu:
However I use them as an offensive unit that gets into my enemies lines T1. Shield Captains definitely have the maneuverability and output to be a good counter assault / deterrent.

[tychobi]

Both?