Surviving 1° turn as a Space Marine army

[Zombs]

Hello fellas!

I would like to discuss with you this particular topic, as it is the biggest problem I have in 8th edition. I am an old player returning to the hobby after years, and I play a mixture of Space Marine/BA/DA/DW

What I have noticed is that, if I get second turn against a shooting heavy army, I will loose most of my firepower to their first round of shooting. I play usually vs Eldar, Guard, Space Marine with Guilliman, DE, Chaos, Tyr and I like to play vs competitive lists even if I loose.

The problem I'm having lately is this:

 

- If the field is full of elements and LOS blocking terrain, I can usually hide something (dreadnoughts/devastators are my main heavy shootings), but not flyers (which usually blow up unless I play 3x). If I do this tho, I will have to move them after in my turn, hence they will get -1 to shoot and with a lot of armies having a -1 to hit, my platforms hit on a 5+ rerolling 1s, which is not so good.

 

- If the field is more open (we are still learning how to create good tables), usually who gets first turn has a big advantage and I don't like it because takes away a big tactical aspect of the game.

 

So I'm trying to create a list that can survive 1° turn shooting (doesn't matter the type of field), but can also respond adequately after.

 

I have 3 ideas in this regard, but all of them have drawbacks:

 

1) Putting your heavy hitters in reserve so the enemy can't shoot them first turn.

- Problem is: how? I can put devastators in RB, but then they will just blow the RB with AT weapons and then focus them with AI weapons. I can put them in a drop pod, but then they get the -1 to hit. I can use the DW stratagems to put Dreadnoughts in reserve, but they will also get the -1 to hit when they arrive. Would it be worth it?

 

2) Getting some sort of protection for my heavy hitters myself (es: -1 to get hit and bubble invulnerable saves). 

- Problem is: this gets expensive really quickly. I was thinking about taking DA Storm Ravens, with a Darkshroud and a Deredeo Dreadnought. They will have -2 to get hit and a 5++ save. But at what cost! and What if the enemy ignores negative modifiers to hit (Dark Reapers... coff coff)?

 

3) Spamming cheap hard hitting units so if I loose one of them it's not so bad.

- Problem: I have to expend more points just because I know something will die? It's a bit of a controversy. And it's not so efficient having like 5 lascannons dreadnoughts or 4 devastator units.

 

These are my thoughts, but I am still an inexperienced player, so maybe all of this is just a rumble without much sense, who knows ahah.

 

Every input/suggestion/critique is very much appreciated!

 

Edit: sorry for writing mistakes, I'm not a native English speaker

[Michaelum]

-Raven Guard tactics are your friend here.

 

-Give them something more urgent to shoot at (classic distraction carnifex) On my case a Stormraven with some assault centurions and a dread always makes my opponents quite nervous about it and soaks all the firepower they have.

 

-Block line of sight with a Land Raider or equivalent that will take time to kill..

 

- Hide them and live with that -1, if you have a dread close, wisdom of the ancients can keep them shooting straight.

 

- If they focus your backlane make them pay for it, rethink your vanguard to make sure if they get close untoched the opponent will pay dearly for it.

[Sloeberjong]

Well, honestly the most important thing is having a table with a lot of terrain. I do mean a lot and also with a lot of LoS blocking terrain. It's not really a tactic or anything, but it's quite necessary for a good game of 40k.

 

Otherwise try to get as much units into reserves as possible. There's no other way to stop the enemy from shooting.

[STTAB]

You could go infantry or heavy saturation for your turn 1 deployment. Going all infantry will make your opponent's high strength stuff less efficient, going all armour will make their anti infantry shooting less efficient.

 

The relic banner for BA will give you a 6" (only models within) 5+++ for infantry and bikers. Or darkshroud and flyers for -2 to hit with Sammy and talonmaster hiding in the middle. With clever position the flyers can start and finish turn 1 with -2 to hit.

 

DA can also do Azrael re-roll/4++ bubble combined with chapter ancient banner. A lot of people combine this with hellblasters or devastators and possibly a darkshroud. If one of your dudes dies in range of ancients banner, he gets a 50% chance to shoot in the opponent's shooting phase with 2 BS.

 

If you go darkshroud, you need quite a bit of DA stuff to make it worth while and decide if you go heavy on stationary, walking or fast movement to make the most of the buff beyond turn 1, also take the cheaper heavy bolter and always advance it for the 4++(even if you move and advance on the spot)

 

Or Ravenguard.

[STTAB]

*also, what flyers are you using? Stormravens suffer no penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons and Dark Talons twin hurricane bolters are rapid fire and don't suffer a penalty for moving. Also, BA and DA have fast hq options that can move up with flyers turn 1 so the flyers keep their -1 to hit and get the benefit of rerolls to hit/wound.

[Zombs]

I only have stormravens for now, but was also thinking about the Xyphon interceptor.

I like the idea of giving only 1 type of target to make some weapons ineffective, need to decide if all vehicles or all infantry.

 

And yeah the DA combo is really good, but as you said, you need to spend a lot of recources to do it. Will think about it!