HH 51 - Slaves to Darkness

[1ncarnadine]

The way Johnathan Keeble is pronouncing it is the 'correct' way to say Trisagion. The G is basically a Y.

[Marshal Rohr]

Like Hagia Sofia.

[Kelborn]

Will be a must pick on the coming Warhammer Fest.

 

Really eager to read this one, you're hyping me like hell. ;)

[Demigod]

To me the Sons of Horus were portrayed as overpowered. Beta Garmon was supposed to be an enormous battle , the second most fortified world after Terra and Dorn even thought that it may even completely hold the traitor forces and in the end it is portrayed as if it was a standard conquest for the Sons of Horus . And the sad thing is that the SoH then are portrayed as being on the verge of being destroyed by a single planets defenses until Horus comes out of his comma and .... ( because nothing is said of the battle they were in ) .
 
On the other hand there are the Iron Warriors and World Eaters which together don't have the strength to face a single Ultramarine Fleet. The Iron warriors are a completely spent force , used as cannon fodder to slow down RG. At least they had Pert portrayed as a serious threat and not a man-child.
 
 
At the end as everything was portrayed I don't see how the traitors even got to threatening Terra. They have nothing . Except for the Sons of Horus and Death Guard everyone else is either a spent force/useless/not joining .

• Night Lords : Except for a few individual warbands are not joining.
• Iron Warriors : A completely spent force .
• World Eaters :  A spent force that can't be used near allies.
• Word Bearers : Just a few thousands are joining after Lorgar was humiliated.
• Emperors Children : Coming at full strength but it does not matter because we already know they did nothing useful during the siege.
• Death Guard : Have yet to see what they become after their fall to Nurgle but still a force to be reckoned with
• Thousand Sons : WIth Magnus pledging full support this is a big power up for the Chaos forces.
• Alpha Legion : They are not joining the battle at all, and i fully expect that they gave Horus fallse plans for the Sol System and to attack him in the back

This is no where nearly enough to attack Terra which is being fortified by three whole legions. The attack on Terra looks more like a final gamle to either win or loose than an overwhelming assault that the loyalist barely stall.

 

I liked the portrayal of how chaos functions , loved the humiliation of Lorgar and that the Alpha Legion does not join Horus for the attack on Terra. Loyalist Omegon here we come.

[Lord_Caerolion]

To me the Sons of Horus were portrayed as overpowered. Beta Garmon was supposed to be an enormous battle , the second most fortified world after Terra and Dorn even thought that it may even completely hold the traitor forces and in the end it is portrayed as if it was a standard conquest for the Sons of Horus . And the sad thing is that the SoH then are portrayed as being on the verge of being destroyed by a single planets defenses until Horus comes out of his comma and .... ( because nothing is said of the battle they were in ) .

 

On the other hand there are the Iron Warriors and World Eaters which together don't have the strength to face a single Ultramarine Fleet. The Iron warriors are a completely spent force , used as cannon fodder to slow down RG. At least they had Pert portrayed as a serious threat and not a man-child.

 

 

At the end as everything was portrayed I don't see how the traitors even got to threatening Terra. They have nothing . Except for the Sons of Horus and Death Guard everyone else is either a spent force/useless/not joining .

• Night Lords : Except for a few individual warbands are not joining. 
• Iron Warriors : A completely spent force .  Well, the Iron Warriors are also important in that their skills are in things they don't have to physically be able to do. Perturabo is still a genius at siege warfare, beyond the abilities of Horus, so he could oversee the invasion itself, repurposing his Legion as artillery/armoured support rather than trench-diggers and sacrificial grunts as they were otherwise used for.
• World Eaters :  A spent force that can't be used near allies. Remember that both the World Eaters and Iron Warriors had two of the most easily accepted geneseed in regards to rejection by hosts, so are both able to return from heavy losses fairly quickly.
• Word Bearers : Just a few thousands are joining after Lorgar was humiliated. Able to summon daemonic aid, as well as leading the mortal cult hordes. That's gotta be worth something.
• Emperors Children : Coming at full strength but it does not matter because we already know they did nothing useful during the siege.
• Death Guard : Have yet to see what they become after their fall to Nurgle but still a force to be reckoned with
• Thousand Sons : WIth Magnus pledging full support this is a big power up for the Chaos forces.
• Alpha Legion : They are not joining the battle at all, and i fully expect that they gave Horus fallse plans for the Sol System and to attack him in the back

This is no where nearly enough to attack Terra which is being fortified by three whole legions. The attack on Terra looks more like a final gamle to either win or loose than an overwhelming assault that the loyalist barely stall.

 

I liked the portrayal of how chaos functions , loved the humiliation of Lorgar and that the Alpha Legion does not join Horus for the attack on Terra. Loyalist Omegon here we come.

 

Ideas in red, bearing in mind that I haven't yet read the book.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea....theres literally nothing definitive about the alpha legions intent.

 

Saying Loyalist omegon and no alpha legion support is pure supposition

[Marshal Loss]

To me the Sons of Horus were portrayed as overpowered. Beta Garmon was supposed to be an enormous battle , the second most fortified world after Terra and Dorn even thought that it may even completely hold the traitor forces and in the end it is portrayed as if it was a standard conquest for the Sons of Horus . And the sad thing is that the SoH then are portrayed as being on the verge of being destroyed by a single planets defenses until Horus comes out of his comma and .... ( because nothing is said of the battle they were in ) .

 

There's a lot wrong here.

 

In no way is Beta Garmon portrayed as a 'standard conquest' for the Sons of Horus. Slaves to Darkness notes that it had drained their strength for months, and you need to remember that this was not the Sons of Horus vs. Dorn's forces: Horus' own Legion were just one small part of a vast conflict. There's a reason why it's called the Titandeath. It's implied that Horus and his speartip broke the deadlock, not that they won the battle on their own.

 

As for the latter point: the Sons of Horus drop out of the warp unexpectedly, with two-thirds of the fleet sustaining damage to their warp engines. They aren't ready to fight, and drop within range of a significant amount of firepower:

 

 

 

We dropped right on top of an outer system orbital fortress cluster,’ said the tech-witch, her voice sounding all too human as it purred the words. ‘A major one. Five star forts, a beta nine-grade weapons platform network, forty monitor craft and a battle group-sized fleet of warships.

 

The Sons of Horus didn't even have time to calibrate their main guns before they were set upon. Is it really a surprise that they were therefore thrown into a struggle for survival, especially given the strife among their leadership?

[Manchu warlord]

To me the Sons of Horus were portrayed as overpowered. Beta Garmon was supposed to be an enormous battle , the second most fortified world after Terra and Dorn even thought that it may even completely hold the traitor forces and in the end it is portrayed as if it was a standard conquest for the Sons of Horus . And the sad thing is that the SoH then are portrayed as being on the verge of being destroyed by a single planets defenses until Horus comes out of his comma and .... ( because nothing is said of the battle they were in ) .

 

On the other hand there are the Iron Warriors and World Eaters which together don't have the strength to face a single Ultramarine Fleet. The Iron warriors are a completely spent force , used as cannon fodder to slow down RG. At least they had Pert portrayed as a serious threat and not a man-child.

 

 

At the end as everything was portrayed I don't see how the traitors even got to threatening Terra. They have nothing . Except for the Sons of Horus and Death Guard everyone else is either a spent force/useless/not joining .

• Night Lords : Except for a few individual warbands are not joining.
• Iron Warriors : A completely spent force .
• World Eaters :  A spent force that can't be used near allies.
• Word Bearers : Just a few thousands are joining after Lorgar was humiliated.
• Emperors Children : Coming at full strength but it does not matter because we already know they did nothing useful during the siege.
• Death Guard : Have yet to see what they become after their fall to Nurgle but still a force to be reckoned with
• Thousand Sons : WIth Magnus pledging full support this is a big power up for the Chaos forces.
• Alpha Legion : They are not joining the battle at all, and i fully expect that they gave Horus fallse plans for the Sol System and to attack him in the back

This is no where nearly enough to attack Terra which is being fortified by three whole legions. The attack on Terra looks more like a final gamle to either win or loose than an overwhelming assault that the loyalist barely stall.

 

I liked the portrayal of how chaos functions , loved the humiliation of Lorgar and that the Alpha Legion does not join Horus for the attack on Terra. Loyalist Omegon here we come.

When did the Iron Warriors use so many soldiers?  Was it during Beta-Garmon?

[Lord_Caerolion]

Apparently they've been acting as a rearguard, slowing the advance of the Ultramarines after the World Eaters/Word Bearers left Ultramar, and the collapse of the Ruinstorm.

[Scribe]

Sounds like a finally worthy addition to the Series.

[b1soul]

A finally worthy addition since which book?

[Demigod]

Yea....theres literally nothing definitive about the alpha legions intent.

 

Saying Loyalist omegon and no alpha legion support is pure supposition

 

Yes Omegon being loyalist and the alpha legion hitting the traitors in the back was purely my hopes on where they take them. That is why I started the rest of the sentence with "I fully expect" ( although my intention was to write " I hope " ). As for the alpha legions intent.

 

The alpha legioner when asked if the Alpha legion will join took out a knife with a handle in the form of Alpha legion heraldry and crushed its blade with his hand. To me that represents that the Alpha legion will not be joining. 

 

 

 

When did the Iron Warriors use so many soldiers?  Was it during Beta-Garmon?

 

 

 

 

They were used like a meat shield to soak up the advance of the Ultramarines and were sent almost no supplies. Then Horus orders them for muster at Ullanor and I think the calculation was that they could only get 35-45% of the legion out and the rest will have to stay and hold up the ultramarines ( with no supplies). Then the Iron Warriors fleet engages a Ultramarine blockade fleet ( compromised from mostly Rogue Trader ships ) , a Sons of Horus nurgle fleet and finally together with the world eaters another Ultramarine fleet but they used Corax`s trick with warp jumps so they only took light casualties.

 

Beta-Garmon is taken by the Sons of Horus single handedly although they were stalled for a few months. I really did not like that Beta-Garmon the biggest fight before Terra finished so quickly and was resolved by just one legion.

[Sandlemad]

 

Beta-Garmon is taken by the Sons of Horus single handedly although they were stalled for a few months. I really did not like that Beta-Garmon the biggest fight before Terra finished so quickly and was resolved by just one legion.

 

 

It's not though. I can't find anything in the book about

Beta-Garmon being taken by the Sons of Horus single-handedly. There's the line it really hurting the traitor forces, to the point where "more blood [was spilled] in that one system than had been shed in the last five years of the Great Crusade". There's the reminiscence of Horus leading the final speartip assault to break the deadlock but nothing saying or implying that the SoH did it alone.

 

We already know it a lot of the battle was an engine war, to borrow a phrase from Titanicus, and the other details of the Titandeath novel have also made it clear that it had a heavy imperial army presence. There was also some stuff that came out from a FW open day seminar about the Emperor's Chidlren and Alpha Legion having some involvement.

 

Not sure where you're getting the idea that it was the SoH won it single-handedly. These are the SoH-centric sections of a book that isn't specifically about the battle of Beta-Garmon; it's not a surprise that they only mention Horus's particular involvement.

[Charlo]

Quick one about this...

 

From the BL Author Interview it seems like this book takes place after the Upcoming "Titan Death" book... That right?

[Marshal Loss]

Quick one about this...

 

From the BL Author Interview it seems like this book takes place after the Upcoming "Titan Death" book... That right?

 

Yes, it begins immediately after the Traitors win at Beta Garmon, with an injured Horus being taken to his throne room in an echo of False Gods

[Sandlemad]

Quick one about this...

 

From the BL Author Interview it seems like this book takes place after the Upcoming "Titan Death" book... That right?

 

Yup. It starts with Horus returning to his ship with the events of that book over and the route to Terra clear. It's standard weird heresy series book order. Corax was published, what, ten books ago? and it ends either after or roughly simultaneous to this book. Apparently in this case the Titandeath novel was a late addition and originally the battle was entirely going to be covered by FW. It's still currently slated as the first campaign book/expansion to Adeptus Titanicus.

[Demigod]

 

 

Beta-Garmon is taken by the Sons of Horus single handedly although they were stalled for a few months. I really did not like that Beta-Garmon the biggest fight before Terra finished so quickly and was resolved by just one legion.

 

 

It's not though. I can't find anything in the book about

Beta-Garmon being taken by the Sons of Horus single-handedly. There's the line it really hurting the traitor forces, to the point where "more blood [was spilled] in that one system than had been shed in the last five years of the Great Crusade". There's the reminiscence of Horus leading the final speartip assault to break the deadlock but nothing saying or implying that the SoH did it alone.

 

We already know it a lot of the battle was an engine war, to borrow a phrase from Titanicus, and the other details of the Titandeath novel have also made it clear that it had a heavy imperial army presence. There was also some stuff that came out from a FW open day seminar about the Emperor's Chidlren and Alpha Legion having some involvement.

 

Not sure where you're getting the idea that it was the SoH won it single-handedly. These are the SoH-centric sections of a book that isn't specifically about the battle of Beta-Garmon; it's not a surprise that they only mention Horus's particular involvement.

 

 

Lorgar was not there, Pert and the Iron Warriors were not there, Angron/Khârn/Fulgrim/Konrad/Alpha legion no one even knows where they are and finally Mortarion was on a mission somewhere else . So which other legion was there except for the Sons of Horus ? Did they have imperial army and mechanicus support, of course but the rest of the book is about finding all the other legions and getting them to muster on Ularnor. 

 

Ok the Sons of Horus did not single handedly take Beta-Garmon , the Imperial Army,Mechanicus and the Sons of Horus took Beta Garmon the second most defended planet at that moment in the Imperium. It is just if we go with the logic that if there are support troops the legion did not did it alone , the Legions should take away almost of their victory laurels.

 

I expected a lot bigger discussion on what happened to Lorgar, the Webway, how Pert is portrayed and what is left of Horus.

[Marshal Loss]

We know that the Titandeath involves a million troops dying a day, with hundreds of Titans battling it out. No single Legion is going to be the main force in a battle of that scale. There is also a giant naval battle ("Sea of Fire") happening around the world, although I'm not sure if it's simultaneous. The only thing that Slaves to Darkness confirms is that Horus and his Legion formed a major part of the final push. Nowhere in the book does it say that the SoH were the only Traitor Legion there; not to mention the fact that many Legions have factions all over the galaxy (which is itself a key part of the book), and only a handful have stuck together as a single unit throughout the war. There is simply no way the SoH were the only Traitor Legion present - we already know that the Emperor's Children and Alpha Legion were fighting on Beta Garmon prior to the main engagement. And Wolfsbane itself showed that Horus was traveling with a fleet made up of many different Legions when he departed for Beta Garmon, not just the Sons of Horus. Horus may have been the only Traitor Primarch there.

 

Simply put, you are making a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. Hopefully this sorts it out for you, and we can now move on to other topics.

[DukeLeto69]

originally the battle was entirely going to be covered by FW. It's still currently slated as the first campaign book/expansion to Adeptus Titanicus.

Really? Cool! Where did you read/hear that?

 

Re the whole out of chronological order. I agree that this particular couple of books makes this very obvious ie Slaves of Darkness before Titan Death when it should be other way around. As said by others though, this is not new to HH as we have books/stories taking place at different points during the HH since the beginning.

 

I think that is the challenge with a "Setting Series" rather than a "Sequential Series". The latter is something like The Beast Arises where in theory each book follows from the last telling a small set of stories/plot lines. A "Setting Series" is what the HH was considered to be for most of its existence telling a wide range of stories across the entire time period and not needing to be overly chronological (arguably Warhammer 40k is itself a setting series because events in one book can be referenced or have impact on another but the stories are not and do not have to be chronological).

 

The "problem" for many (I think) is that a lot of people thought or wanted the HH to be a single chronological story (so more like a sequential series). The problem with that is that the HH is so huge and expansive that too much is happening simultaneously to be covered in that approach.

 

It would be like writing a series of books about WWII. You have the Western European front, the Eastern European front, the Balkans, the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, North Africa, the Pacific, South East Asia, all happening simultaneously. So if a novel was covering a time period instead of a particular war front, say August 1942, then that novel would have to cover most of the war fronts I listed with a huge range of characters. It would be completely episodic and the different storylines almost completely unrelated.

 

Properly telling us about the HH presents the exact same problem.

[Marshal Loss]

 

originally the battle was entirely going to be covered by FW. It's still currently slated as the first campaign book/expansion to Adeptus Titanicus.

Really? Cool! Where did you read/hear that?

 

 

FW/GW open day (one of the two), if nothing has changed, the book will follow the main release of Adeptus Titanicus within ~6 months

[Marshal Rohr]

Marshal Loss, Beta Garmon is shaping up to be the coolest damn battle outside of the actual Siege going by your descriptions. I’m so stoked.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

The alpha legioner when asked if the Alpha legion will join took out a knife with a handle in the form of Alpha legion heraldry and crushed its blade with his hand. To me that represents that the Alpha legion will not be joining. 

 

 

 

He was asked where his dudes were and he crushed the blade into shards.

 

Remember that in PoD (also by French) there was a scene with alpharius and silonius where he takes apart his spear and asks if its still the spear, alluding to the Legion.

 

So maybe the AL is standing aside. Or maybe just because they're scattered, doesn't mean they're not with Horus

[Calas Typhon]

Would really appreciate spoilered rundown on the Iron Warriors part in this book and if there are any notable mentions of the Death Guard, even if they are as I suspect, looking for Typhon at this current time.

[ZebraM]

Would really appreciate spoilered rundown on the Iron Warriors part in this book and if there are any notable mentions of the Death Guard, even if they are as I suspect, looking for Typhon at this current time.

The only mention/appereance of the Death Guard is Maloghurst asking Mortarion to come to Ullanor to meet with Horus and the other traitor Primarchs but Mortarion refuses unless Horus himself gives the command (which he can't do because hes in a chaos coma). That's it really.

[Marshal Rohr]

Considering there are chaos marines in the Alpha legion in 40k it’s safe to say some alphas were with horus some were not.