New Stratagems we'd like to see

[Captain Idaho]

To focus the feedback I need I wanted to see a free for all on this thread so we can see what sort of things we want to see:

 

Things got side tracked in the Codex Space Marines Amendment thread so I never addressed this:

 

An Stratagem I just though for this.

 

Suspended Animation: The Sus-An Membrane can keep alive a space marine even at death´s door, by putting him on a state of suspended animation.

 

2 Command Points: Use it when a Space Marine Character is slain, roll a D6, on a 4+ that model counts as not being slain for all purposes (except if the controling player has no models on the table.)

It's an interesting idea. I'd personally have it as 1 CP.

 

I like the idea of Stratagems based upon the enhancements of Space Marines.

 

***

 

Any ideas in general? I think Terminators could do with something new or two.

[MARK0SIAN]

Terminator/Veteran Stratagem.

 

TAKE CHARGE -3 CP

Terminators and chapter veterans are experienced warriors who lead by example, new officers in the chapter are often chosen from amongst their ranks.

 

If a Chapter Captain is slain within 6 inches of a friendly Terminator/Veteran, a single terminator or veteran model can be promoted to captain to take his place. This new captain has all of the stats and abilities of a regular captain of his type, however the fallen captain is still counted as slain for any victory conditions such as slay the warlord.

[Schlitzaf]

I’d like to see Black Templars get a second strategem related to our Crusader Squads, because we cannot use Empyric Channeling

[MARK0SIAN]

I would love to see Black Templars get stratagems in place of their old vows.

 

Something like, accept any challenge: Any unit may heroically intervene if the unit they attack outnumbers them/has more wounds than them/has higher S or T than them.

 

Suffer not the unclean to live: Designate an enemy unit at the start of the battle. BT units add 2 to charge rolls when targeting that unit.

 

Abhor the witch: as it is now or something like -1 to enemy Warp charge when targeting any BT units in the psychic phase.

[Schlitzaf]

Markosians I think best way to bring back vows would actually be warlord traits

Scion of Sigismund

“If your Warlord is (Black Templar) you may nominate a (Black Templar) CHAMPION as a second Warlord. Whom can choose one of two specified Warlord traits.”

 

While this gets in homebrew I actually thought of what a BT Warlord Trait be

1 Angel of Death

2 Rites

3 Current

4 Trait of +1D Weapon

5 Vow of Units contain models that are fighting within 6” using AP -1 or greater melee those models may attack an additional time with that weapon. If taken by CHAMPION it affects all friendly BT Models on table as long as champion is alive*

6 Vow of Models fighting within 6” using an AP - MELEE Weapon add -1 AP to their attacks. If taken by CHAMPION it affects all friendly BT units within 6” of champion instead.

 

*Or it could BT units containing models that are within 6” fighting with an AP -1 or greater MELEE within 6”, those models in that unit using an AP -1 or Greater MELEE Weapon add +1 to hit. If BT Champion takes this Warlord trait it affects all BT Friendly models on the table.

[Guest MistaGav]

Just a quick one off the top of my head:

"Holy Promethium: Extend the range of a units Flamer or Melta weapons by 3" for the remainder of the shooting phase."

That alone could give flamers a bit more viability and options.


Something for Ravenwing & Deathwing:

"Stoic advance: A DEATHWING or RAVENWING unit does not count as moving for the purposes of the Grim Resolve ability. This does not affect the weapons usual weapon profile though."

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Assault Vehicle: enables a Land Raider to disembark troops after moving.

[justicarius6]

Risky Teleport - 1CP A unit of terminators (or assault terminators) held in reserve may teleport within 6" of an enemy unit instead of the usual 9". For each model in the unit roll a dice, for each six rolled the terminator unit takes a mortal wound.

[Captain Idaho]

Lots of ideas keep them coming!

[MARK0SIAN]

Unstoppable Charge 2CP

 

Models in Terminator armour only

 

Terminator armour turns its wearer into a human tank that, whilst slow, has huge mass behind its movement.

 

When the models in a unit complete a successful charge, each enemy model in base contact with a terminator is hit automatically by an attack representing the mass of the terminator. These attacks are resolved at S-User, AP0, 1D

[Panzer]

Unstoppable Charge 2CP

 

Models in Terminator armour only

 

Terminator armour turns its wearer into a human tank that, whilst slow, has huge mass behind its movement.

 

When the models in a unit complete a successful charge, each enemy model in base contact with a terminator is hit automatically by an attack representing the mass of the terminator. These attacks are resolved at S-User, AP0, 1D

 

That's really not worth 2CP. It's just a bunch of Bolter hits. Not even lots of them.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

Unstoppable Charge 2CP

 

Models in Terminator armour only

 

Terminator armour turns its wearer into a human tank that, whilst slow, has huge mass behind its movement.

 

When the models in a unit complete a successful charge, each enemy model in base contact with a terminator is hit automatically by an attack representing the mass of the terminator. These attacks are resolved at S-User, AP0, 1D

That's really not worth 2CP. It's just a bunch of Bolter hits. Not even lots of them.

Fair enough, 1 CP then, or up the strength etc. The costs for my ideas are just guesswork really. I’m just trying to find some fun ideas for the stratagems. Something that makes the units play a bit closer to the fluff.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Honestly, that should be mortal wounds. Someone's signature around here used to mention power armor as being charged by an angry VW Beetle, which means getting charged by Terminators is like being run over by an eighteen wheeler. Call it 1 MW per model on a 4+, roll for each model.

[Panzer]

I bothered and looked at a few similar Stratagems other armies have available:

• Tyranids Behemoth Hive Fleet - 1CP Brute Force: After charge roll a dice for each model in the charging unit that's within 1" of an enemy unit. Mortal wound on a 6 (2+ for a MONSTER).
  • Important to note: Gaunts are a lot more models in a unit than Marines and so the Tyranid player rolls more dice than a Marine player would so is more likely to roll 6s.
• T'au Empire - 1CP Repulsor Impact Field: After a Battlesuit unit got charged by an enemy unit roll for each enemy model of that unit that's within 3" of the Battlesuit unit. Mortal wound on 6s.
  • Obviously meant as defensive measure against something like gaunts and orks. Rather useless against something like Custodes or other elite armies.
• Astra Militarum Catachan - 1CP After a Catachan unit that's wholly on or within terrain got charged roll a dice. 1d3 Mortal wounds on a 4+.
  • Really situational but AM has tons of CP anyway and while its potential damage is rather low it's independent on the number of models in either unit.

Bonus mention: AdMech Electro Priests. After they charged roll a dice for each model in the unit. Mortal wound on 6s.

 

 

So yeah Mortal wounds seems like a given. I'd say rolling a 5+ for each Marine that charged seems reasonable. It's ~2 Mortal wounds for 1CP for a unit of 5.

[Slan Drakkos]

Cool thread. As a Salamanders player, I'd really like to see the following.

 

Because of their early training as blacksmiths, all Salamanders are fully capable of maintaining and performing moderate repair on their weapons and armour, leaving the Chapter's artificers with the free time necessary to create great works of technology and metallurgy. As a result, the Salamanders Chapter has an unusually high number of Master-Crafted Weapons, Artificer Armour and even Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

Master Artisans: 1CP

Because of their training as blacksmiths, the equipment of the fire born is often twice as well made as the equipment that could be found in other chapters.

 

At the beginning of the game, choose a friendly unit. The weapons of that unit are now Master Crafted.

[MARK0SIAN]

I bothered and looked at a few similar Stratagems other armies have available:

• Tyranids Behemoth Hive Fleet - 1CP Brute Force: After charge roll a dice for each model in the charging unit that's within 1" of an enemy unit. Mortal wound on a 6 (2+ for a MONSTER).
  • Important to note: Gaunts are a lot more models in a unit than Marines and so the Tyranid player rolls more dice than a Marine player would so is more likely to roll 6s.
• T'au Empire - 1CP Repulsor Impact Field: After a Battlesuit unit got charged by an enemy unit roll for each enemy model of that unit that's within 3" of the Battlesuit unit. Mortal wound on 6s.
  • Obviously meant as defensive measure against something like gaunts and orks. Rather useless against something like Custodes or other elite armies.
• Astra Militarum Catachan - 1CP After a Catachan unit that's wholly on or within terrain got charged roll a dice. 1d3 Mortal wounds on a 4+.
  • Really situational but AM has tons of CP anyway and while its potential damage is rather low it's independent on the number of models in either unit.

Bonus mention: AdMech Electro Priests. After they charged roll a dice for each model in the unit. Mortal wound on 6s.

 

 

So yeah Mortal wounds seems like a given. I'd say rolling a 5+ for each Marine that charged seems reasonable. It's ~2 Mortal wounds for 1CP for a unit of 5.

I’d looked at these but the reason I thought of using normal hits instead of mortal wounds is that it would affect the right kind of unit more heavily and give the Terminators an advantage against hordes.

 

For example, if you use regular hits, those five Terminators charging could reasonably expect to get into base contact with 8-10 GEQ models. That would mean the guard would take 8-10 auto hits that would wound on a 3 with the guard getting their normal save. Resulting in around 4 casualties. However, against tougher opponents or vehicles the effect would be reduced, representing that model’s ability to better withstand the charge.

 

Basically to me, using the hits instead of mortal wounds more clearly represents how a load of GEQ models would be swept aside by the sheer mass of the Terminators whereas bigger and tougher ones wouldn’t.

[CCE1981]

Cool thread. As a Salamanders player, I'd really like to see the following.

 

 

Because of their early training as blacksmiths, all Salamanders are fully capable of maintaining and performing moderate repair on their weapons and armour, leaving the Chapter's artificers with the free time necessary to create great works of technology and metallurgy. As a result, the Salamanders Chapter has an unusually high number of Master-Crafted Weapons, Artificer Armour and even Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

Master Artisans: 1CP

Because of their training as blacksmiths, the equipment of the fire born is often twice as well made as the equipment that could be found in other chapters.

 

At the beginning of the game, choose a friendly unit. The weapons of that unit are now Master Crafted.

For Salamanders I would prefer something like:

 

For each Command Point spent choose a unit before the game begins, if the unit is a Character or a Vehicle, improve its armor save by 1. If it is a unit, improve its sergeants armor save by 1.

 

Yes this would be allowed to be taken multiple times, if you are willing to blow all yourcommand points on an improved armor save go ahead.

[Panzer]

 

I bothered and looked at a few similar Stratagems other armies have available:

• Tyranids Behemoth Hive Fleet - 1CP Brute Force: After charge roll a dice for each model in the charging unit that's within 1" of an enemy unit. Mortal wound on a 6 (2+ for a MONSTER).
  • Important to note: Gaunts are a lot more models in a unit than Marines and so the Tyranid player rolls more dice than a Marine player would so is more likely to roll 6s.
• T'au Empire - 1CP Repulsor Impact Field: After a Battlesuit unit got charged by an enemy unit roll for each enemy model of that unit that's within 3" of the Battlesuit unit. Mortal wound on 6s.
  • Obviously meant as defensive measure against something like gaunts and orks. Rather useless against something like Custodes or other elite armies.
• Astra Militarum Catachan - 1CP After a Catachan unit that's wholly on or within terrain got charged roll a dice. 1d3 Mortal wounds on a 4+.
  • Really situational but AM has tons of CP anyway and while its potential damage is rather low it's independent on the number of models in either unit.

Bonus mention: AdMech Electro Priests. After they charged roll a dice for each model in the unit. Mortal wound on 6s.

 

 

So yeah Mortal wounds seems like a given. I'd say rolling a 5+ for each Marine that charged seems reasonable. It's ~2 Mortal wounds for 1CP for a unit of 5.

I’d looked at these but the reason I thought of using normal hits instead of mortal wounds is that it would affect the right kind of unit more heavily and give the Terminators an advantage against hordes.

 

For example, if you use regular hits, those five Terminators charging could reasonably expect to get into base contact with 8-10 GEQ models. That would mean the guard would take 8-10 auto hits that would wound on a 3 with the guard getting their normal save. Resulting in around 4 casualties. However, against tougher opponents or vehicles the effect would be reduced, representing that model’s ability to better withstand the charge.

 

Basically to me, using the hits instead of mortal wounds more clearly represents how a load of GEQ models would be swept aside by the sheer mass of the Terminators whereas bigger and tougher ones wouldn’t.

 

 

Makes sense if you want it to be mainly of use against hordes I guess. However you usually really don't want to charge your Terminators into hordes because you'll never make their points back there and unless you support them with another unit you'll be stuck there for way too long. Dual Lighting claws won't have the getting stuck problem but they are still too expensive to charge into hordes imo.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

 

I bothered and looked at a few similar Stratagems other armies have available:

• Tyranids Behemoth Hive Fleet - 1CP Brute Force: After charge roll a dice for each model in the charging unit that's within 1" of an enemy unit. Mortal wound on a 6 (2+ for a MONSTER).
  • Important to note: Gaunts are a lot more models in a unit than Marines and so the Tyranid player rolls more dice than a Marine player would so is more likely to roll 6s.
• T'au Empire - 1CP Repulsor Impact Field: After a Battlesuit unit got charged by an enemy unit roll for each enemy model of that unit that's within 3" of the Battlesuit unit. Mortal wound on 6s.
  • Obviously meant as defensive measure against something like gaunts and orks. Rather useless against something like Custodes or other elite armies.
• Astra Militarum Catachan - 1CP After a Catachan unit that's wholly on or within terrain got charged roll a dice. 1d3 Mortal wounds on a 4+.
  • Really situational but AM has tons of CP anyway and while its potential damage is rather low it's independent on the number of models in either unit.

Bonus mention: AdMech Electro Priests. After they charged roll a dice for each model in the unit. Mortal wound on 6s.

 

 

So yeah Mortal wounds seems like a given. I'd say rolling a 5+ for each Marine that charged seems reasonable. It's ~2 Mortal wounds for 1CP for a unit of 5.

I’d looked at these but the reason I thought of using normal hits instead of mortal wounds is that it would affect the right kind of unit more heavily and give the Terminators an advantage against hordes.

 

For example, if you use regular hits, those five Terminators charging could reasonably expect to get into base contact with 8-10 GEQ models. That would mean the guard would take 8-10 auto hits that would wound on a 3 with the guard getting their normal save. Resulting in around 4 casualties. However, against tougher opponents or vehicles the effect would be reduced, representing that model’s ability to better withstand the charge.

 

Basically to me, using the hits instead of mortal wounds more clearly represents how a load of GEQ models would be swept aside by the sheer mass of the Terminators whereas bigger and tougher ones wouldn’t.

Makes sense if you want it to be mainly of use against hordes I guess. However you usually really don't want to charge your Terminators into hordes because you'll never make their points back there and unless you support them with another unit you'll be stuck there for way too long. Dual Lighting claws won't have the getting stuck problem but they are still too expensive to charge into hordes imo.

Oh I agree, it’s maibly for those time when they have no choice but to clear out a screen of stuff to get to what they really want to be hitting. The idea being they can clear out the screen in one round because, let’s face it, a squad of guardsmen would slow a charge of Terminators about as effectively as a fly getting in the way of a freight train :)

[Slan Drakkos]

 

Cool thread. As a Salamanders player, I'd really like to see the following.

Because of their early training as blacksmiths, all Salamanders are fully capable of maintaining and performing moderate repair on their weapons and armour, leaving the Chapter's artificers with the free time necessary to create great works of technology and metallurgy. As a result, the Salamanders Chapter has an unusually high number of Master-Crafted Weapons, Artificer Armour and even Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

Master Artisans: 1CP

Because of their training as blacksmiths, the equipment of the fire born is often twice as well made as the equipment that could be found in other chapters.

At the beginning of the game, choose a friendly unit. The weapons of that unit are now Master Crafted.

For Salamanders I would prefer something like:

For each Command Point spent choose a unit before the game begins, if the unit is a Character or a Vehicle, improve its armor save by 1. If it is a unit, improve its sergeants armor save by 1.

Yes this would be allowed to be taken multiple times, if you are willing to blow all yourcommand points on an improved armor save go ahead.

I like it, but I feel like if that happened, the Iron Hands would lose the one thing that makes then kind of unique. Making the salamanders one of the best shooting armies in the codex as well as making them one of the toughest feels like everyone else would be getting the short end of the stick.

[CCE1981]

 

 

Cool thread. As a Salamanders player, I'd really like to see the following.

Because of their early training as blacksmiths, all Salamanders are fully capable of maintaining and performing moderate repair on their weapons and armour, leaving the Chapter's artificers with the free time necessary to create great works of technology and metallurgy. As a result, the Salamanders Chapter has an unusually high number of Master-Crafted Weapons, Artificer Armour and even Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

Master Artisans: 1CP

Because of their training as blacksmiths, the equipment of the fire born is often twice as well made as the equipment that could be found in other chapters.

At the beginning of the game, choose a friendly unit. The weapons of that unit are now Master Crafted.

For Salamanders I would prefer something like:

For each Command Point spent choose a unit before the game begins, if the unit is a Character or a Vehicle, improve its armor save by 1. If it is a unit, improve its sergeants armor save by 1.

Yes this would be allowed to be taken multiple times, if you are willing to blow all yourcommand points on an improved armor save go ahead.

I like it, but I feel like if that happened, the Iron Hands would lose the one thing that makes then kind of unique. Making the salamanders one of the best shooting armies in the codex as well as making them one of the toughest feels like everyone else would be getting the short end of the stick.

Depends on what everyone else gets, if Ironhands got something like:

Iron Will

1CP - Choose an Ironhands unit, that unit improves its ability to ignore damage by one.

———and/or———

Increased biotics

1CP before the beginning of the game choose an Ironhands uuit, if it is a character or dreadnought improve its ability to ignore damage by one, if it is a unit the units seargent may imdo so.

 

Remember the Ironhands tactic allows you to ignore any wounds including mortal wounds.

 

The salamanders one I wrote up should be limited to infantry, bikers, and deadnoughrs as well.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

I bothered and looked at a few similar Stratagems other armies have available:

• Tyranids Behemoth Hive Fleet - 1CP Brute Force: After charge roll a dice for each model in the charging unit that's within 1" of an enemy unit. Mortal wound on a 6 (2+ for a MONSTER).
  • Important to note: Gaunts are a lot more models in a unit than Marines and so the Tyranid player rolls more dice than a Marine player would so is more likely to roll 6s.
• T'au Empire - 1CP Repulsor Impact Field: After a Battlesuit unit got charged by an enemy unit roll for each enemy model of that unit that's within 3" of the Battlesuit unit. Mortal wound on 6s.
  • Obviously meant as defensive measure against something like gaunts and orks. Rather useless against something like Custodes or other elite armies.
• Astra Militarum Catachan - 1CP After a Catachan unit that's wholly on or within terrain got charged roll a dice. 1d3 Mortal wounds on a 4+.
  • Really situational but AM has tons of CP anyway and while its potential damage is rather low it's independent on the number of models in either unit.

Bonus mention: AdMech Electro Priests. After they charged roll a dice for each model in the unit. Mortal wound on 6s.

 

 

So yeah Mortal wounds seems like a given. I'd say rolling a 5+ for each Marine that charged seems reasonable. It's ~2 Mortal wounds for 1CP for a unit of 5.

I’d looked at these but the reason I thought of using normal hits instead of mortal wounds is that it would affect the right kind of unit more heavily and give the Terminators an advantage against hordes.

 

For example, if you use regular hits, those five Terminators charging could reasonably expect to get into base contact with 8-10 GEQ models. That would mean the guard would take 8-10 auto hits that would wound on a 3 with the guard getting their normal save. Resulting in around 4 casualties. However, against tougher opponents or vehicles the effect would be reduced, representing that model’s ability to better withstand the charge.

 

Basically to me, using the hits instead of mortal wounds more clearly represents how a load of GEQ models would be swept aside by the sheer mass of the Terminators whereas bigger and tougher ones wouldn’t.

Makes sense if you want it to be mainly of use against hordes I guess. However you usually really don't want to charge your Terminators into hordes because you'll never make their points back there and unless you support them with another unit you'll be stuck there for way too long. Dual Lighting claws won't have the getting stuck problem but they are still too expensive to charge into hordes imo.

Oh I agree, it’s maibly for those time when they have no choice but to clear out a screen of stuff to get to what they really want to be hitting. The idea being they can clear out the screen in one round because, let’s face it, a squad of guardsmen would slow a charge of Terminators about as effectively as a fly getting in the way of a freight train

 

 

I think for that task I'd like a version of the Blood Angels "Strike of the Archangels" better tho.

The BA Stratagem costs 2CP and lets a unit of Terminators after the drop re-roll failed hit rolls until the start of your next turn. It's pretty bad unless you are extremely lucky and make the 9" charge with a bunch of Thunderhammers.

However I was thinking about 1CP and a unit of Terminators can after the drop shoot twice until their next turn. So a unit of 5 with Stormbolters would have 40 shots the turn they drop. CSM can do that with Slaanesh Terminators for 2CP and they can give each of the Plasma so it shouldn't be too strong.

 

Of course that doesn't help Assault Terminators ... maybe your idea is good for those after all tho I still think it's kinda weak and is one of those Stratagems most player would try avoiding to be ever in a situation to have to waste CP for it. I prefer Stratagems that you can include in your plans and that support the actual task of a unit rather than Stratagems that are designed like a fallback plan in case things go wrong. ^^

 

Maybe rather a Stratagem that lets you literally move through a unit if they fail a Toughness test (and when it's possible to place the models within their movement distance)?

Like

"1CP: At the beginning of your movement or charge phase you can select one of your Terminator units. This unit can attempt to move through enemy units as if they had the FLY keyword. The unit they walk through has to roll a d6 and add their Toughness to the result. Then you roll a d6 and add your units Strength to the result. If your result is higher then ignore that unit for the purpose of movement and roll a d6 for each model in your Terminator unit before you move. On a 4+ the unit passed through suffers a Mortal wound. If your result is equal or lower then the attempt to break through failed and you move your unit as normal."

 

Just some quick brainstorming so I don't have to study so not my best idea probably. :P

[MARK0SIAN]

I really like that idea, I was trying to think of way to move through units but couldn’t think of a way to make it work, that idea is great! I would definitely pay cp for it :)

[Captain Idaho]

I like the idea of Terminators getting a teleport strike Stratagem. I'd expand it like this:

 

"Teleport Strike: 2CPs Used immediately before a unit of Terminators teleports onto the battlefield. That squad can shoot twice and rerolls failed charge rolls. If the unit has the <Black Templars> keyword it receives a +2 to charge rolls instead."

 

This makes Terminator strikes much more powerful. Assault Terminators would do well reaching the enemy though don't benefit as much as Cataphractii or ordinary Terminators.

[The Unseen]

I like the idea of Terminators getting a teleport strike Stratagem. I'd expand it like this:

 

"Teleport Strike: 2CPs Used immediately before a unit of Terminators teleports onto the battlefield. That squad can shoot twice and rerolls failed charge rolls. If the unit has the <Black Templars> keyword it receives a +2 to charge rolls instead."

 

This makes Terminator strikes much more powerful. Assault Terminators would do well reaching the enemy though don't benefit as much as Cataphractii or ordinary Terminators.

That still isn't good enough.

Well, maybe for Black Templars.

Rerollable 7" charge is pretty doable.

 

Rerolling deep strike charges is still less than 50% successful, so your spending 2 CP to get some extra storm bolter shots and 1 heavy weapon hitting on 4s most of the time, especially since youd have to wait till turn 2 to really use it anyway.

 

Something like either shoot or move right after deep striking, similar to the DA strat, and reroll all To-Hits for the turn.