Efficient allied Blood Angels Batallion

[lash144]

Sure, but thats reserved for my Captain for a possible turn 1 charge :P

[Diagramdude]

I've found the libby dread to be a great holder for Veritas Vitae. He hangs back by my gunline as a counter charge deterrent and moves up in the later turns when many of the threats to his T7 profile have been eliminated.

 

Now if you are bringing 3 HQs and an elite, it is worth considering just taking the supreme command, yes you lose 4 CPs but you save the 165pt scout "tax."

 

Scouts are great but not auto includes now that the big FAQ neuters most T1 deep strikes

[lash144]

I have to go for a Batallion because I really need those CP.

Yeah Scouts are not an auto include anymore, thats why I was thinking about what I could add to my small firebase.

I will need mostly some long range anti infantry fire because my AdMech can do the heavy lifting, so maybe tactical squad with HB, devastators with HB (and a ML for the stratagem) or maybe even these new Primaris troops, but I´m not quite sure how good they are.

[Karhedron]

Primaris Intercessors are pretty good. For +5ppm, you get twice as many wounds which makes them hard to shift off objectives (particularly when in cover). They have longer range on their bolt rifles and Ap-1 which is handy as even chaff usually has a save of some sort.

 

If you are looking for troops with decent anti-infantry potential, I would say Intercessors are a great choice. Not as glamourous or exciting as some of the other units but solid workhorses. Plus you can pick up 5-man squads cheaply from people who split the Dark Imperium set so it is easy to try a squad out.

[lash144]

Okay I'll try out those Primaris (they also look pretty cool imo)

Last two questions before my first Blood Angels game tomorrow:

1) Intercessor loadout: Just the standard bolter or one of the variants? Plus what about the grenade launcher?

2) Warlord Trait for Captain Smash? The one who makes the hammer d4 or the 5+++?

[Diagramdude]

1) Take the aux grenade launcher and power sword both on the sergeant. He becomes a mini hero in his own right. 3 power sword attacks can really put in work. And there is no restriction on giving the grenade launcher to the sarge so you might as well since he will be last to die.

 

2) D4 or 5+++ is a game time decision, look at your opponents list and see if there are any big nasties you need the captain to go after, or if raw survivability will be more valuable. Against knights, mortarion, baneblades, take the D4. Against hordes, take the 5+++

[lash144]

Just had my first 2 games yesterday with my Blood Angels / AdMech Soup vs Tau and hell, that was a lot of fun!

Blood Angels complement my AdMechs weaknesses pretty good and even Captain Smash alone would be worth the inclusion. He is such a beast and also a real nuisance to kill for his points. 

I wasn´t impressed by Mephiston tbh and I´m also not quite sure about DC. While they really pack a punsh, they are also a huge investment and can be easier counter than a Captain.

 

But all in all I really had some fun and you can welcome a new Blood Angel!

[Karhedron]

Glad to hear you had fun. My experiences with Mephiston again Tau have been tricky as despite his toughness, he lacks an invulnerable save. Tau also have lots of tricks for sharing overwatch and withdrawing and shooting, both of which hurt Mephy more (potentially) than Captain Smash. I would give him a few more chances but at the end of the day, if he is not working for you, feel free to swap him out. Many people run a Libby Dread in a similar role so that is one option to consider. A Librarian is sueful defensively against armies with Psykers but of course this is not a consideration vs Tau.

 

DC are a glass hammer, there is no mistake there. Timing their arrival and picking the right target is essential for them. Too early and they may get themselves blown away. Too late and they may not be in time to turn the tide. I tend to find myself bringing them on Turn 2 with Descent of Angels once priority targets have become clear and I know what I need to destroy most. The frequently die to a man but have never failed to delete at least one crucial unit before they do so (and often more).

 

If you consistently find yourself unimpressed with DC then Sanguinary Guard are another option. They are a lot more durable than DC (almost 4 times more durable vs pulse rifle fire) but do not churn out the same volume of attacks and cost even more points. With massed power weapon attacks, they excel at taking out elite infantry units like Battlesuits.

 

Experimenting with new toys is half the fun in my experience. ;)

[lash144]

Yeah I would consider Tau generally as hard match up for us, the shared Overwatch in combination with the ability to fall back and still shoot for most of their interesting stuff is really brutal. But you are right I will of course do some more testing, since those were just my first 2 games.

 

So some more questions:

1) If I would run some Sanguinary Guard, what kind of character support do you propose for them? Also do you deepstrike them or start them on the board?

 

2) A more general question: How do you deal with screens T1, so you can drop your DC in a nice spot?

 

3) Whats so cool about the Librarian Dread? He has just 3A and no invuln and cost a lot of points.

[Lathspell]

1) In my opinion, they rock with the Sanguinor as warlord, +1A and reroll misses ftw.

 

2) Counter-screen with scouts to secure a drop zone for your troops is the easy way. Otherwise, you need to delete the screening units with firepower or assaults.

 

3) He is a beast that can scalate to 3+2d3 attacks s10 -4 3d, or s12 -3 3d, with quickening and red rampage, make him warlord with aow for 4d and let fun begin. Besides, he has a potential movement of 20" with wings of sanguinius and a charge distance of 3+2d6 with quickening. Need an invuln save?, drop auickening and bring shield of sanguinius for 5++. He is a character with r7 and 8 wounds, so no heavy weapons at him if he is not the closest. All of the above for 172 points is not a bad deal.

[Karhedron]

1) Sanguinary Guard are one of those units that benefit from several buffs. Sanguinor as Warlord is probably the best as +1A and rerolls is a great combo and he is a pretty potent beatstick in his own right. Next up would be a Sanguinary Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice. A 5+ additional save to ignore damage makes them really hard to shift. If you want to abuse that even more, a Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (Index option) will give them +1S and the ability to patch up wounded models or even resurrect fallen dudes. This level of character support is very expensive but worth considering for larger games and each bonus stacks upon the other and you get a unit that can tear through almost anything that your opponent will struggle to stop.

 

2) Depends on what the screens are composed of.  I generally run both CCW Scouts for turn 1 pressure and bolter Inceptors for efficient chaff deletion. Sometimes it is just a case of throwing everything and the kitchen sink into whatever unit you need to go down.

 

3) What Lathspell said. ;)

[Lathspell]

About the dc, yes they are quite fragile, and i recall few games were they made to the last turn, but i always find they are worth the points, specially if correctly buffed. I remember one game were my 15 strong dc died to the last man against dark angels, but acompanied and buffed by a chaplain, a sanguinary priest, the sanguinor, and a libby, ran through (by order) 2 dark talons, azrael, a company ancient and 6 tacticals, 5 more tacticals and a darkshroud, and the last dc marine died in the explosion of the ravenwing talonmaster he had just killed, quite a bounty for a 300 point unit.

[lash144]

Do you let your SG start on the table or do you deepstrike them in? With deepstriking it seems kind of hard to be able to get all the buffing characters into range...

[Brother Crimson]

All you need is one of the 15 dc to hang back to catch the buffs. I am not sure as allies it’s a good idea to go for sanguinor+chaplain+librarian+ancient buff. In a complete BA army the trick is that they are not here to simply buff one unit. They can be there to buff several waves of assault units.

[PhilB]

Capt. Smash + some Death Co sounds like a heap of fun.

I've toyed a little with the numbers and I like the idea of adding a jump Capt. all the trappings, Lemartes & 10 jump Death Co to my Dark Angels.

I thought about adding in 3 min. Scouts squads to make up a Battalion for the CPs - so all up is ~670 pts for the Capt. with TH & SS, Lemartes, 10 jump DC with 3 THs and 3 x 5 man Scout squads.

I'm guessing the Capt. needs Angel's Wing & Death Visions of Sanguinius right off the bat, so that'd be 2 CPs if I keep Azrael as my warlord.

How do the stratagems work when you deep strike? With Lemartes the DC can reroll charges (plus himself) & with the relic the Capt. does too, do you use Descent of Angels on the Capt. or the DC? Or is it situational?

 

This kind of takes me back to the old 2nd ED Angels of Death Codex.

Just to complete the picture, I'd be running Az, a Prim Lt, 10 Hellblasters & 3 x 5 man Intercessor squads to walk up the mid field plus 2 x 5 man Dev. squads with another Prim. Lt to baby sit the back field, rounding out a 2k list.

 

Lastly, would you make the BA Capt. the warlord over Azrael? Doing so would cost the CP farm trait plus a bonus command point. If so, what trait would you take for the BA Capt?

 

Thanks!

[Diagramdude]

The only reason to give slam the WL trait over CP boost is for Artisan of War if you look at your opponents list and something big really needs to die ASAP.

[lash144]

All you need is one of the 15 dc to hang back to catch the buffs. I am not sure as allies it’s a good idea to go for sanguinor+chaplain+librarian+ancient buff. In a complete BA army the trick is that they are not here to simply buff one unit. They can be there to buff several waves of assault units.

 

Yeah sure, but I was talking about the SG, because I think you want to take the SG with the 5+++ and correct me if I´m wrong but the iirc the 5+++ banner only affects models within 6" right?

TBH I´m actually considering to main BA from now on, because I had so much fun and it´s such a engaging aggressive playstile.

 

 

Capt. Smash + some Death Co sounds like a heap of fun.

I've toyed a little with the numbers and I like the idea of adding a jump Capt. all the trappings, Lemartes & 10 jump Death Co to my Dark Angels.

I thought about adding in 3 min. Scouts squads to make up a Battalion for the CPs - so all up is ~670 pts for the Capt. with TH & SS, Lemartes, 10 jump DC with 3 THs and 3 x 5 man Scout squads.

I'm guessing the Capt. needs Angel's Wing & Death Visions of Sanguinius right off the bat, so that'd be 2 CPs if I keep Azrael as my warlord.

How do the stratagems work when you deep strike? With Lemartes the DC can reroll charges (plus himself) & with the relic the Capt. does too, do you use Descent of Angels on the Capt. or the DC? Or is it situational?

 

This kind of takes me back to the old 2nd ED Angels of Death Codex.

Just to complete the picture, I'd be running Az, a Prim Lt, 10 Hellblasters & 3 x 5 man Intercessor squads to walk up the mid field plus 2 x 5 man Dev. squads with another Prim. Lt to baby sit the back field, rounding out a 2k list.

 

Lastly, would you make the BA Capt. the warlord over Azrael? Doing so would cost the CP farm trait plus a bonus command point. If so, what trait would you take for the BA Capt?

 

Thanks!

 

Definitely add in the Scouts cause you will need CP. 

Regarding stratagems: I started my Captain on the board and DC + Lemmartes in deepstrike. If you get first turn use the stratagem thats lets him move+advance before the start of the first turn for a guaranteed first turn charge. If you go second use the stratagem thats let´s him deepstrike. (so you can even deepstrike him in the first turn outside of your DZ)

Tip: I don´t know how the tables on which you´re playing look like, but you could deepstrike him ontop of a bulding or so (9" deepstrike restriction is measured from base to base) and then have an easy charge for things arround said building, because models with the fly keyword only count the horizontal distance. (which leaves you with a 4-6" charge most of the time)

 

Regarding warlord:

I really would recommend to have some sort of CP regain, because man you could easily spend 10CP on your Captain in just one turn. (BA also have a relic which let´s you refund on 5+). If you decide to make your WL BA then you could either go for the trait which makes his hammer 4D or the one which gives him a 5+++ with rerollable 1´s.

 

Hope that helps you :)

[Karhedron]

 

All you need is one of the 15 dc to hang back to catch the buffs. I am not sure as allies it’s a good idea to go for sanguinor+chaplain+librarian+ancient buff. In a complete BA army the trick is that they are not here to simply buff one unit. They can be there to buff several waves of assault units.

Yeah sure, but I was talking about the SG, because I think you want to take the SG with the 5+++ and correct me if I´m wrong but the iirc the 5+++ banner only affects models within 6" right?

TBH I´m actually considering to main BA from now on, because I had so much fun and it´s such a engaging aggressive playstile.

 

Yes, with SG you will need to keep them near their buffing characters. This is especially true of the Standard of Sacrifice and you Warlord as both the Banner and the "Heirs of Azkellon" only affect models within 6", not units. For this reason, starting SG and their characters on the table and then moving them up is usually a good idea.

 

DC + Lemartes and/or Captain Smash are much more self-sufficient. You can drop them in where you need them and then use DoA to immediately go on the rampage.

 

This does not mean you have to pick between one or the other style of play, in fact they are quite complimentary. You can use Captain Smash + UWOF + DoA to hit a critical enemy unit on Turn 1 which will help ensure the Sanguinary Guard survive to reach combat. Taking out a crucial unit with lots of plasma guns will neutralise one of the few units that can really threaten the SG. Simmilarly, you can drop the DC in on Turn 2 or 3 to knock out anything that is out of reach of the SG or that they may have trouble dealing with (your Death Company will burbn through chaff units that might bog the SG down).

[Brother Crimson]

For the relic banner I found that the (index) company banner with JP works great. You start him on the table to protect mobile Firebase like aggressors. Once you have a hole in for SG you advance him in range and DS the guards.

 

On the same idea, I used to DS DC turn one with sanguinary ancient for wound reroll. On turn 2 I would move him up a bit and deep strike the guards in the same way.

 

Both are a bit risky as the guard can fail a 3d6 charge even with cp reroll but it’s worth it 4/5 times :p

[PhilB]

Thanks Iash, that sounds great. Will have to give this a go next time.