Army considerations

[dbecer01]

Ok, so I have IG so far and building a BA force. I am finding that the BA force has a weakness when it comes to uneven terrain and assault. Also, I don’t really like using the old non-primaris marines.

 

I was starting to think Eldar/Dark Eldar might be more mobile and adaptable than either of the 2 above armies. Any other army recommendations ( I like Tyranids, Cult, Orks visually)?

[Slan Drakkos]

Ok, so I have IG so far and building a BA force. I am finding that the BA force has a weakness when it comes to uneven terrain and assault. Also, I don’t really like using the old non-primaris marines.

I was starting to think Eldar/Dark Eldar might be more mobile and adaptable than either of the 2 above armies. Any other army recommendations ( I like Tyranids, Cult, Orks visually)?

interesting. To play imperial Guard, you'd need to have an interest in vehicles and heavily armored firepower. I find it odd that you'd be interested in fast attacking lightly armored armies like the Dark eldar and craftworld eldar. That's not to say that they aren't spectacular armies, it's just that both Eldar factions as well as BA are meant to be heavily mobile armies (which is practically the opposite of Imperial Guard).

 

With that little bit of oddness aside, if you're looking for armies that play similar to IG, go with the Renagades and Heretics, Iron Warriors, Tau, or Mechanicum. They all rely pretty heavily on armored vehicles and blowing the enemy to smithereens from afar.

 

If you want to keep looking for a fast attacking assault army, go with the Night Lord's, Emperor's Children, Black Legion, White Scars, or Raven Guard.

 

Personally, I'd suggest looking into the Emperor's Children as they are the best overall shooting based army of the chaos codex, potentially one of the three best armies of the chaos codex in close combat, possibly one of the best in the psychic phase, and also very mobile with the possibility of becoming the second best at overall toughness. Then again, I am a huge EC fan, so that may just be coloring my opinion.

[Leonaides]

If your ba force has a weakness in assault you dont really have a ba force, you have red marines. Death company, sanguinary guard, captain hammertime, all mobile hard hitting assault units. Blood angels armies are/were typically one of the most mobile marine armies apart from full biker whitescars or ravenwing armies.

 

Perhaps you could start with what specifically you are after - mobile shooty, mobile assaulty, tactically flexible, tactically mobile deep strikeable units that arent necessarily more mobile afterwards like terminators for example?

[dbecer01]

I like IG because of the fact that they’re just regular dudes, trying to fight super powered monsters with WWII tanks and dispelling demonic rituals with artillery.

 

I probably should just get some dc and sg, and quit whining. I wanted to play more with the primaris models I guess.

[Claws and Effect]

I like IG because of the fact that they’re just regular dudes, trying to fight super powered monsters with WWII tanks and dispelling demonic rituals with artillery.

 

I probably should just get some dc and sg, and quit whining. I wanted to play more with the primaris models I guess.

The things that make Blood Angels what they are aren't found in the Primaris line.

 

That is the case for pretty much every Chapter. Primaris are pretty homogeneous and don't have the identity that makes the various Chapters unique.

 

When I think White Scars the first thing that comes to mind is bikes.

 

Iron Hands? Tanks and dreads.

 

Raven Guard? Scouts and dual claw Vanguard.

 

When I think Blood Angels, Death Company and Baal Predators are the first things that come to mind.

 

Going pure Primaris strips away the unique identity of a Chapter and makes them play pretty similar.

[Slan Drakkos]

 

I like IG because of the fact that they’re just regular dudes, trying to fight super powered monsters with WWII tanks and dispelling demonic rituals with artillery.

I probably should just get some dc and sg, and quit whining. I wanted to play more with the primaris models I guess.

The things that make Blood Angels what they are aren't found in the Primaris line.

That is the case for pretty much every Chapter. Primaris are pretty homogeneous and don't have the identity that makes the various Chapters unique.

When I think White Scars the first thing that comes to mind is bikes.

Iron Hands? Tanks and dreads.

Raven Guard? Scouts and dual claw Vanguard.

When I think Blood Angels, Death Company and Baal Predators are the first things that come to mind.

Going pure Primaris strips away the unique identity of a Chapter and makes them play pretty similar.

Not entirely true. Certain primaris units can and do make chapters significantly better than they already are.

 

Rievers are perfect for Raven Guard.

 

Inceptors are excellent for Blood Angels

 

Aggressors are tailor made for salamanders.

 

With that said, you're right about one thing. Going with/for a full primaris loadout is going to end in heartbreak. Primaris Marines serve the roll of absolute elite specialists and pretty much always lack the versatility that other marine units have. Their overspecialization makes them absolutely exceptional in certain scenarios, but a massive waist of points outside of those scenarios.

 

To echo what everyone else is saying, spec your Blood Angels the right way and you won't have any problems. Spec them the wrong way (going pure primaris) and you're going to keep being the whipping boy of your group.

[Panzer]

 

 

I like IG because of the fact that they’re just regular dudes, trying to fight super powered monsters with WWII tanks and dispelling demonic rituals with artillery.

I probably should just get some dc and sg, and quit whining. I wanted to play more with the primaris models I guess.

The things that make Blood Angels what they are aren't found in the Primaris line.

That is the case for pretty much every Chapter. Primaris are pretty homogeneous and don't have the identity that makes the various Chapters unique.

When I think White Scars the first thing that comes to mind is bikes.

Iron Hands? Tanks and dreads.

Raven Guard? Scouts and dual claw Vanguard.

When I think Blood Angels, Death Company and Baal Predators are the first things that come to mind.

Going pure Primaris strips away the unique identity of a Chapter and makes them play pretty similar.

Not entirely true. Certain primaris units can and do make chapters significantly better than they already are.

 

Rievers are perfect for Raven Guard.

 

Inceptors are excellent for Blood Angels

 

Aggressors are tailor made for salamanders.

 

With that said, you're right about one thing. Going with/for a full primaris loadout is going to end in heartbreak. Primaris Marines serve the roll of absolute elite specialists and pretty much always lack the versatility that other marine units have. Their overspecialization makes them absolutely exceptional in certain scenarios, but a massive waist of points outside of those scenarios.

 

To echo what everyone else is saying, spec your Blood Angels the right way and you won't have any problems. Spec them the wrong way (going pure primaris) and you're going to keep being the whipping boy of your group.

 

 

Thematically they fit very nicely to those Chapters however they don't make them "better".

 

Reivers I'd say gain barely anything from being Raven Guard since they can already infilitrate any infantry unit they want anyway and Reivers don't do the "stay >12" away" better than Intercessors if you want to focus on the Chapter tactic.

 

The only thing Inceptors gain from being Blood Angels is the re-positioning Stratagem which you barely get to use for them since they get focussed down quickly or they simply don't need it because the board is too crowded and they can reach their target with 10" move + 18" weapons anyway.

The other thing would be the +1 to-wound in melee and 3d6 charge on drop Stratagem but charging them is usually not the best of ideas and the 3d6 charge Stratagem is only free to use for them if you play a pure Primaris army anyway since DC/SG/HQs are better uses for it.

 

Aggressors are one of the least interesting choices for Salamanders considering their thing is weight of dice while the Salamanders Chapter tactic benefit units with few&important rolls like Lascannons, Melta, Thunderhammers etc.

In fact they're an excelent choice for a Raven Guard army thanks to their double tap rule at short range and Raven Guard being able to infilitrate them.

 

 

Also I disagree about the going full primaris statement. It's true if you aim for a competetive list but then again no Marine list is particularly competetive currently. However playing full primaris in a casual or semi-competetive meta is entirely viable and a lot of fun if such an army is your thing. Primaris Marines don't serve the roll of absolute elite specialists. They are slightly more elite than regular Marines and they definitely aren't specialists considering most of their weapons are Bolter variants and Plasma which can be used against most non-vehicle targets nicely. Absolute elite specialists would be fully equipped Deathwatch (not Primaris).

[Ishagu]

Imo Primaris Marines need a few more unique releases to be fully fleshed out, and I believe they will be if Stormcast Eternals are anything to go by.

 

Eldar and Dark Eldar combinations are possibly the most overpowered in the game at the moment. Those forces are filled with under-costed units, superb fire-power and movement and amazing psychic powers.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

Aggressors are one of the least interesting choices for Salamanders considering their thing is weight of dice while the Salamanders Chapter tactic benefit units with few&important rolls like Lascannons, Melta, Thunderhammers etc.

Aggressors are perhaps the most effective unit in the entire codex for the Flamecraft strategem. In CC being able to re-roll one of their gauntlet hits is also very nice.

[Slan Drakkos]

 

Thematically they fit very nicely to those Chapters however they don't make them "better".

 

Reivers I'd say gain barely anything from being Raven Guard since they can already infilitrate any infantry unit they want anyway and Reivers don't do the "stay >12" away" better than Intercessors if you want to focus on the Chapter tactic.

 

The only thing Inceptors gain from being Blood Angels is the re-positioning Stratagem which you barely get to use for them since they get focussed down quickly or they simply don't need it because the board is too crowded and they can reach their target with 10" move + 18" weapons anyway.

The other thing would be the +1 to-wound in melee and 3d6 charge on drop Stratagem but charging them is usually not the best of ideas and the 3d6 charge Stratagem is only free to use for them if you play a pure Primaris army anyway since DC/SG/HQs are better uses for it.

 

Aggressors are one of the least interesting choices for Salamanders considering their thing is weight of dice while the Salamanders Chapter tactic benefit units with few&important rolls like Lascannons, Melta, Thunderhammers etc.

In fact they're an excelent choice for a Raven Guard army thanks to their double tap rule at short range and Raven Guard being able to infilitrate them.

 

 

Also I disagree about the going full primaris statement. It's true if you aim for a competetive list but then again no Marine list is particularly competetive currently. However playing full primaris in a casual or semi-competetive meta is entirely viable and a lot of fun if such an army is your thing. Primaris Marines don't serve the roll of absolute elite specialists. They are slightly more elite than regular Marines and they definitely aren't specialists considering most of their weapons are Bolter variants and Plasma which can be used against most non-vehicle targets nicely. Absolute elite specialists would be fully equipped Deathwatch (not Primaris).

Rievers help units by throwing grenades that lower their targets to hit rolls and straight up shut off overwatch. Very good for making your deepstrikers and assault units last longer and ensure that the majority don't die from overwatch.

 

From what I've seen from Inceptors, they are one of the best units that the blood Angels have access to when it comes to deepstriking and annihilating a high toughness/high wound unit/model. That's not to say that they're better than sanguinary guard or death company at close range, but from what I've seen, they pretty consistently punch through tanks and still viably charge into the enemies back lines.

 

......Aggressors are one of the best units that Salamanders have access to for the purpose of their stratagem. Vulkan also buffs them significantly and the ability to hold an objective and straight up melt the faces of any charging units is incredible. I mean.....they can just evaporate full squads with the right set up.

[Panzer]

 

 

Thematically they fit very nicely to those Chapters however they don't make them "better".

 

Reivers I'd say gain barely anything from being Raven Guard since they can already infilitrate any infantry unit they want anyway and Reivers don't do the "stay >12" away" better than Intercessors if you want to focus on the Chapter tactic.

 

The only thing Inceptors gain from being Blood Angels is the re-positioning Stratagem which you barely get to use for them since they get focussed down quickly or they simply don't need it because the board is too crowded and they can reach their target with 10" move + 18" weapons anyway.

The other thing would be the +1 to-wound in melee and 3d6 charge on drop Stratagem but charging them is usually not the best of ideas and the 3d6 charge Stratagem is only free to use for them if you play a pure Primaris army anyway since DC/SG/HQs are better uses for it.

 

Aggressors are one of the least interesting choices for Salamanders considering their thing is weight of dice while the Salamanders Chapter tactic benefit units with few&important rolls like Lascannons, Melta, Thunderhammers etc.

In fact they're an excelent choice for a Raven Guard army thanks to their double tap rule at short range and Raven Guard being able to infilitrate them.

 

 

Also I disagree about the going full primaris statement. It's true if you aim for a competetive list but then again no Marine list is particularly competetive currently. However playing full primaris in a casual or semi-competetive meta is entirely viable and a lot of fun if such an army is your thing. Primaris Marines don't serve the roll of absolute elite specialists. They are slightly more elite than regular Marines and they definitely aren't specialists considering most of their weapons are Bolter variants and Plasma which can be used against most non-vehicle targets nicely. Absolute elite specialists would be fully equipped Deathwatch (not Primaris).

Rievers help units by throwing grenades that lower their targets to hit rolls and straight up shut off overwatch. Very good for making your deepstrikers and assault units last longer and ensure that the majority don't die from overwatch.

 

From what I've seen from Inceptors, they are one of the best units that the blood Angels have access to when it comes to deepstriking and annihilating a high toughness/high wound unit/model. That's not to say that they're better than sanguinary guard or death company at close range, but from what I've seen, they pretty consistently punch through tanks and still viably charge into the enemies back lines.

 

......Aggressors are one of the best units that Salamanders have access to for the purpose of their stratagem. Vulkan also buffs them significantly and the ability to hold an objective and straight up melt the faces of any charging units is incredible. I mean.....they can just evaporate full squads with the right set up.

 

 

The Reiver grenade only work for the turn you throw it so unless you do it in overwatch or follow up with a charge (which is unlikely to happen for units coming from reserves) you won't gain anything by throwing them. Also that's not Raven Guard specific, that's a general trait of that unit.

 

That's a trait Inceptors have for any Chapter, that's not BA specific.

 

You're right, I didn't consider the Stratagem. However looking at the unit overall I'd probably still go with the Boltstorm gauntlets despite the Stratagem working well with the Flamestorm gauntlets.

[Claws and Effect]

The thing that makes Aggressors not great for Salamanders is the lack of good options to get them within 8" to do anything at all.

 

No savvy player is going to let a unit of Salamanders Aggressors march right up to them.

 

I see Primaris as an interesting tactical addition to an army, rather than flat out better.

 

I'm considering some Intercessors for the Blood Angels army I'm (slowly) building.

 

If you're playing Blood Angels, I have to say Mephiston is almost an autotake. He's one of the most brutal beatsticks available to any Imperium army.

 

Consider the following: he can take Quickening to add 3" to advance and charge rolls, in addition to getting d3 extra attacks when he charges. He can also take Wings of Sanguinius to let him move 19" in his turn. If you have another Librarian to put Unleash Rage on him he gets +1 strength and attacks.

 

That's a potential 11 attacks at S12 that hit on 2s with d3 damage. Not much will live through that.