Feral_80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Yesterday I played a 2k game with a small Custodes detachment supporting a larger Astra Militarum Catachan 'assault' force. It was a lot of fun, and very different from the average AM list. I had a Praetor with a Vexilla Defensor and I used it in the following way, but at some point I was in doubt. All seems legit when I read the rules, but I want to be sure I did it right. Surely this has been tried already several times. The Vexilla gives 5++ against ranged fire to Imperium infantry units entirely within 9" Bullgryns with a slabshield "add 2 to the save rolls" (all, correct? not just armour saves), which brings them to 3++ vs shooting when within the Vexilla range Add either the 'Take cover!' stratagem ("add 1 to saving throws" vs shooting) or the Psychich barrier spell ("add 1 to saving throws" vs all) for a 2++ vs shooting (and, in the latter case, 1+ in melee). Is the above correct? My Bullgryns did not inflict a lot of damage, but they ate bullets better than a titan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSilver Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Pretty sure that's not right sadly.The Slab Shield adds 2 to the Bullgryn's armour save which makes it 2+. The Vexilla Defensor grants a 5++ invulnerable save. So you take either the 2+ or the 5++. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 But the slabshield codex entry says 'save rolls', not 'armour saves' (Battlescribe is wrong on this btw). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSilver Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I think this is a case of RAI vs RAW - pretty sure though that invulnerable saves are separate from saves (sv is a characteristic on the unit datasheet).I get what you're saying but not sure the Slab Shield is supposed to work like that. (but I can't provide any definitive evidence against your argument though). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 I quite agree that that was probably not intended. But in lack of clearer rules, I try to stick to the wording as precisely as possible... I know among some AM players a very popular build is: Ogryn bodyguard (character) with relic Death Mask of Ollanius (4++) and slab shield for a permanent 2++. I cannot recall anybody regarding this build as not working like the above, but I'd be happy to read any contrary argument. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 The RAW seems pretty clear here..it should work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtse Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Yup. It works. Defensor gives them 5++ then that goes to 3++ with slab shield. Then 2++ with the spell. Lotta points though and does rely on getting the psychic power off. But a nice little combo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMarsh Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 That is how it works. They can get up to a 2++ in that manner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhitar Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 You can do similar things with a void shield generator or celestine’s 6++. The vexilla is the classic way to pull it off, though :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5109917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Awesome Honestly, those 8 Bullgryns and Vexilla saved my day against Orkz. But they were not broken: 4 of them died anyway (vs 60 boyz and a lot of artillery), and overall they did not inflict huge damage at all. They performed very good however, more than paying up for their price tag. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5110193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 The 2++ is obviously an oversight IMO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5110198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmic66 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Its how it works, heaps of people have been layering buffs to increase the invo, never been addressed by FAQ because its good but not amazing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348332-vexilla-defensor/#findComment-5116551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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