Triple Vindicator Fire Magnet?

[Diagramdude]

Im looking at Linebreaker Bombardment and it seems really strong especially because you don't actually shoot, so all three vindicators could pop smoke. 3D3 mortal wounds is a lot of pain.

 

375 points for 33 T8 wounds, but what I like most is even if you go second, that investment seems to guarantee to attract most of the opponents shooting, sparing the rest of the army. And if you go first, advance all three 10+D6 right into the enemy and pop smoke plus the stratagem.

 

Has anyone tried running vindicators?

[Spagunk]

Haven't tried but I feel that, just like predators, you either get on use out of it or non since they can just pop one of the units to make the strat not work.

 

Someone with more experience than I can probably tell you if it is effective though.

[Panzer]

33 T8 wounds to chew through for your opponent sounds great until you realise that he has to chew only through 11 T8 wounds to make the Stratagem unusable and then you're left with only 4 S10 AP-3 D1d6 shots at 24" range. Something that's far from being unlikely to happen. Especially now that it's to be expected to see more Knights again which have a 5++ against shooting on top of that.

 

The damage output is only better than 2 LasPreds if you aim to damage more than one unit. If shooting at only one target 2 LasPreds do more damage than the Linebreaker Bombardement even without adding a third Pred for Killshot or aura buffs and 1 LasPred still does almost as much damage as the Linebreaker Bombardement.

There's also the risk of failing to roll the 4+ to consider in which case your damage output doesn't become slightly less ... it becomes 0.

 

Now there's an argument to be made in favour of Vindicators tho. If the opponent comes towards you the 24" of their main cannon won't be an issue and they'll turn into basically 2 slightly better Lascannons each (3.5 each against bigger units). This should bring them on equal terms with the LasPreds on raw damage output even without using the Linebreaker Bombardement against multiple targets while also being more durable. That only works if your opponent has nothing in his backfield you'd want to shoot at tho.

[Tokugawa]

Now there's an argument to be made in favour of Vindicators tho. If the opponent comes towards you the 24" of their main cannon won't be an issue and they'll turn into basically 2 slightly better Lascannons each (3.5 each against bigger units). This should bring them on equal terms with the LasPreds on raw damage output even without using the Linebreaker Bombardement against multiple targets while also being more durable. That only works if your opponent has nothing in his backfield you'd want to shoot at tho.

Most of the popular 10+ men units, have an average cost of 5-7pts per model, even lower. If your opponents shoot their S10 guns at such units, you may already got profits.

 

I think during designing step, vindicators "paid" unnecessary costs for strength 10.90% chance S10 and S9 make no difference at all.

[Diagramdude]

Valid points, I guess what I'm getting at is if you do go first, being able to zoom forward, pop smoke, and still threaten significant damage seems pretty good. And T8 with -1 to hit is so much more durable than Predators plus seems like it would still draw much of the enemy fire since they really can't be ignored.

 

And if they do go first and kill one of your vindicators, that kind of sucks for losing the stratagem but it isn't that big of a loss.

 

Mainly I'm trying to find ways to add more defensive durability into my lists. I've been coming up with 2000 pt lists only to look over it at the end and realize so much of it would die turn 1 to a Guard or Knight gunline.

[Panzer]

 

Now there's an argument to be made in favour of Vindicators tho. If the opponent comes towards you the 24" of their main cannon won't be an issue and they'll turn into basically 2 slightly better Lascannons each (3.5 each against bigger units). This should bring them on equal terms with the LasPreds on raw damage output even without using the Linebreaker Bombardement against multiple targets while also being more durable. That only works if your opponent has nothing in his backfield you'd want to shoot at tho.

Most of the popular 10+ men units, have an average cost of 5-7pts per model, even lower. If your opponents shoot their S10 guns at such units, you may already got profits.

 

 

 

Yeah I know hence why I didn't actually consider that option excpet for that one mention in the brackets. ;)

[Panzer]

Valid points, I guess what I'm getting at is if you do go first, being able to zoom forward, pop smoke, and still threaten significant damage seems pretty good. And T8 with -1 to hit is so much more durable than Predators plus seems like it would still draw much of the enemy fire since they really can't be ignored.

 

And if they do go first and kill one of your vindicators, that kind of sucks for losing the stratagem but it isn't that big of a loss.

 

Mainly I'm trying to find ways to add more defensive durability into my lists. I've been coming up with 2000 pt lists only to look over it at the end and realize so much of it would die turn 1 to a Guard or Knight gunline.

 

That's almost 400p of doing nothing the first turn apart from moving tho. That's far from being good. By the time they start actually doing something your opponent could have blasted away half of your army already even when going second. Even worse if he goes first and decides to stay outside of their 24" that turn.

[Diagramdude]

First turn wouldn't be just moving though, my entire premise is they can pop smoke as well as use Linebreaker Bombardment because the stratagem does not have them fire any actual weapons.

[Panzer]

I'm not entirely sure that works. Can you trade your shooting for the Stratagem effect if you already can't shoot due activating smoke before?

[Diagramdude]

100% yes. You can fire your smoke launchers instead of shooting any weapons, and popping the stratagem restricts you from firing the demolisher cannons. In both cases you don't fire any weapons, so the stratagem effect resolves and you pop smoke as well.

 

It was covered in one of the FAQs related to a different stratagem or effect.

[Diagramdude]

Actually the only mention of smoke launchers in the FAQs is

 

Q: Can abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’, such as Smoke Launchers, be used if the model using them has Fallen Back, Advanced or has enemy models within 1" of it?

A: Yes. A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to.

 

The Vindicators do not shoot, therefore they can pop smoke.

[Panzer]

I see, thanks for the clarification.

Well in that case it's a little bit better than I thought but I'd still not be very content of driving almost 400p of tanks that close to the enemy lines since they can easily get tied up so I'd probably just drive them forward only a little bit to get into range and then let them sit there. Almost 400p for ~6 damage also doesn't sound particularly tempting. ^^

[Diagramdude]

Well another little gem is the Vindicators, as long as there are three of them, can use Linebreaker Bombardment even if they are tied up! It isn't a shooting attack, they could be completely mobbed and surrounded and as long as they are within 6" of each other pop it off. They could also fall back and use it, etc. 

[BrotherAetherick]

I think the worst part of this stratagem (besides being turned off as soon as one of them dies, leaving with you with 2 subpar vehicles) is that the point you fire at has to be within range and LOS of all three vindicators. With proper LOS blocking terrain it really limits where you can go and its effectiveness. It would have been awesome if you could rush one forward with Overcharged engines stratagem (seriously, what is the point of this one) to get a better angle or reach, but unfortunately it doesn't do anything useful as the other two would be out of range/LOS.

[Diagramdude]

Lol, I just found out about 354 pt Knight Gallants... That's the end of this thread.

[Brother Crimson]

gallant freeblade with obsessed by vengeance and driven to slaughter will be a fun thing.