Diagramdude Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 If I pop Auspex Scan to shoot at some deep strikers, can I then immediately use Scions of Guilliman to gain some rerolls? How literal is "as if it were the shooting phase" meant to be? Auspex Scan: "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements within 12" of one of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES Infantry units.Your unit can immediately shoot at that enemy unit as if it were the Shooting phase, but you must subtract 1 from all the resulting hit rolls. Scions of Guilliman: "Use this Stratagem when an ULTRAMARINES INFANTRY or ULTRAMARINES BIKERunit is selected to attack in a Shooting or Fight phase..." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I don’t see why you can’t use both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5109695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 You just can’t re-roll a “miss” that without modifiers would normally hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5109845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1s always miss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5109872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This is the Ultramarines thread Guilman allows Ultras to re-roll all failed misses and wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5109882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 As if it was the Shooting Phase I suppose makes an exception. Maybe. I can see an argument for both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5109928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 You can use both. You can pop 5 different strategems at once if you wanted to. Maybe not with this book as there aren't that many useful ones lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5112504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 We just love blue armor . ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5112547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I don't think they would work together. Scions can only be used in the shooting phase. While Auspex Scan says to shoot as if it was the shooting phase, it doesn't temporarily make it the shooting phase. Seems pretty clear cut that it can't be used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5112903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Has there been any FAQ rulings to clear up how literally the "as if it were the shooting phase" or "as if it were the fight phase" etc is supposed to be taken? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5113157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 As if it were the shooting phase is pretty self explanatory. It's as if it were the shooting phase - meaning strategems that work in the shooting phase would apply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5113302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I'm also of the opinion that you can use both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5113328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Me three! Always followed the rule of acting as if th shooting phase. Another example of this would be Canticles of the omnissiah which acts as if in cover, and being actually in cover doesn’t add to this, and anything that denies cover, negates the Canticles which again are actually not in but acting as if in cover. The Scions requirement is met by the Auspex acting as if in the shooting phase. At the end of the day it’s a lot of command points that may not actually get maximum use if your opponent is smart. I’ve never found it to be game breaking in any way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5122317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I don't think they would work together. Scions can only be used in the shooting phase. While Auspex Scan says to shoot as if it was the shooting phase, it doesn't temporarily make it the shooting phase. Seems pretty clear cut that it can't be used. As if it were the shooting phase is pretty self explanatory. It's as if it were the shooting phase - meaning strategems that work in the shooting phase would apply. As if it were the shooting phase just means you resolve the shots with the same rules as the shooting phase. If that line of text wasn't there you would be able to shoot at a deep striking squad that was out of LOS for example or throw grenades at a unit that deep strikes in when they won't be in range. Move, Shoot, Fight as if it was X phase are purely to give you rules limitations on how to resolve out of turn actions so that a wall of text doesn't have to be inserted on every stratagem or special rule. This line of text does not change the phase you are in so stratagems and abilities/special rules that only work in specific phases would not be able to be used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5122341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I disagree. You're putting limitations in that the rules don't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5122425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicarius6 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Another example of this would be Canticles of the omnissiah which acts as if in cover, and being actually in cover doesn’t add to this, and anything that denies cover, negates the Canticles which again are actually not in but acting as if in cover. . BUT in the Deathwatch FAQ it specifically states that Dragonfire rounds do not get the +1 to hit against units that only count as if in they're in cover. How do you reconcile that with this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5122658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 That could be a specific balancing of that particular rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5122662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 GW is GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5122998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Scions can only be used in the Shooting or Fight phase. It's as simple as that. That is what the stratagem says. That is the limitation of the strat. If you want to use it, you have to answer one questions: is it the Shooting or Fight phase?So, your opponent brings in a unit from reserve/deep strike at the end of their movement phase. You use Auspex Scan because it meets the criteria stated in the strat. If you attempt to use Scions of Guilliman, are you meeting the criteria? No, because the current phase is the Movement phase. Auspex Scan is not making it the shooting phase, it is only telling you how to resolve the shooting, i.e. "as though it were the shooting phase." The current phase does not change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Yet auspex scan says you attack as if it were the shooting phase. So if I'm attacking as if it were the shooting phase, I can use a strategem that works in that phase. If you want to argue against these weak strats you should ask GW for clarification. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Can’t believe some are still arguing for a waste of CP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Yeah, unfortunately Marines operate in squads of 5 typically, meaning this Strat isn't worthwhile as the damage done is minimal, especially at -1 BS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I operate larger squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I operate larger squads. So do I. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I did say "typically" lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348355-auspex-scan-scions-of-guilliman/#findComment-5123930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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