Good non-FW distraction carnifexes?

[momerathe]

Or "carnifices", take your pick :)

 

The core of my (planned) army will be primaris kill teams with a mix of intercessors and hellblasters, plus ven. dreads for ranged AT. What I'm looking for is something that I can drop into the enemy lines to cause maximum chaos and disruption. :)

 

Now, I know that the canonical answer for this is a Leviathan, but while I've got no problem with them some people can be sniffy about FW stuff, so I'd rather stick to GW if I can.

[Lemondish]

How do you feel about allies?

[momerathe]

How do you feel about allies?

I'd prefer to avoid them if I can.. but I'm open to suggestions.

[Lemondish]

Another poster in another thread suggested this particular Captain build that could be a pretty huge distraction the enemy HAS to deal with, especially if it drops on their faces.  

 

Watch Captain with Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, and Storm Bolter for 119 points. Prop up the Storm Bolter with Bane Bolts of Eryxia for +1 damage (and mortal wounds on 6+), then add Castellan of the Black Vault for an extra +1 damage on the Thunderhammer. Maybe pair this guy with a Jump Librarian for some Veil of Time and Might of Heroes. 

[MoGuy]

Or you go for ye ol' Captain Smashfriend: Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. Add Warlord Trait to taste or give him the Beacon Angelis to teleport a Kill Team to him, thus adding more pressure on the location he drops down. 

 

I fielded him like this (with the Beacon but without a WT) a few times and he is always really good. If he manages to get into combat with the enemy Warlord he will quite reliably kill him. He can smash most elite units or vehicles but he will get tarpitted easily so try to avoid that. 

[Aothaine]

Kill Teams themselves are carnifexes. Deathwatch don't really need to pull anything from Forgeworld or allies. But doing so does make them better.

 

Ex.

 

Fortis Kill Team

 

Intercessor (Bolt Rifles) x5

Flame Aggressors x4

Plasma Inceptor x1

 

Or

 

Fortis Kill Team

 

Assault Bolt Rifle Intercessors x5

Bolter Aggressors x4

Bolter Inceptor x1

 

Both of these teams are terror inducing.

[Moostick]

If we remove FW, I'd say only the Corvus and Land Raiders would qualify as distraction carnifexes that won't be erased in a turn far up the line.

 

Maybe a Redemptor, but I doubt it'd last over a turn regularly.

[Lemondish]

Or you go for ye ol' Captain Smashfriend: Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. Add Warlord Trait to taste or give him the Beacon Angelis to teleport a Kill Team to him, thus adding more pressure on the location he drops down.

 

I fielded him like this (with the Beacon but without a WT) a few times and he is always really good. If he manages to get into combat with the enemy Warlord he will quite reliably kill him. He can smash most elite units or vehicles but he will get tarpitted easily so try to avoid that.

Might as well go for the original Smashfriend for the always on +1 to wound when charging, the 5+ fnp, charge re-rolling, and overwatch immunity.

 

Kill Teams themselves are carnifexes. Deathwatch don't really need to pull anything from Forgeworld or allies. But doing so does make them better.

 

Ex.

 

Fortis Kill Team

 

Intercessor (Bolt Rifles) x5

Flame Aggressors x4

Plasma Inceptor x1

 

Or

 

Fortis Kill Team

 

Assault Bolt Rifle Intercessors x5

Bolter Aggressors x4

Bolter Inceptor x1

 

Both of these teams are terror inducing.

Ooof, that flamer team looks really soft. They may distract for a bit I guess but they'll be half worthless until they reach 8".

[TheBigAristotle]

 

Or you go for ye ol' Captain Smashf*cker: Captain w/ Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. Add Warlord Trait to taste or give him the Beacon Angelis to teleport a Kill Team to him, thus adding more pressure on the location he drops down.

 

I fielded him like this (with the Beacon but without a WT) a few times and he is always really good. If he manages to get into combat with the enemy Warlord he will quite reliably kill him. He can smash most elite units or vehicles but he will get tarpitted easily so try to avoid that.

Might as well go for the original Smashf*cker for the always on +1 to wound when charging, the 5+ fnp, charge re-rolling, and overwatch immunity.

 

Kill Teams themselves are carnifexes. Deathwatch don't really need to pull anything from Forgeworld or allies. But doing so does make them better.

 

Ex.

 

Fortis Kill Team

 

Intercessor (Bolt Rifles) x5

Flame Aggressors x4

Plasma Inceptor x1

 

Or

 

Fortis Kill Team

 

Assault Bolt Rifle Intercessors x5

Bolter Aggressors x4

Bolter Inceptor x1

 

Both of these teams are terror inducing.

Ooof, that flamer team looks really soft. They may distract for a bit I guess but they'll be half worthless until they reach 8".

 

 

If you deep strike the unit, you're 9.000000001 inches away you've got 10 ablative wounds before you even have to think about killing the aggressors. After that, you can move, fire flamers and charge, then withdraw the next turn and do it again if your Inceptor is still alive.

[Lemondish]

If you deep strike the unit, you're 9.000000001 inches away you've got 10 ablative wounds before you even have to think about killing the aggressors. After that, you can move, fire flamers and charge, then withdraw the next turn and do it again if your Inceptor is still alive.

Or you can drop the bolter ones and fire the moment you arrive, then in the exact same situation you mentioned the second turn will allow them to fire twice if they don't move. All that for less points. That's on average 6 + D6 bolter shots, twice as many when you stand still.

 

That's significantly more reliable than 2d6 flamers with the same profile, which are statistically less shots before we even recognize they're dropping out of range and are forced to always do so at 9.01" or whatever.

 

So in summary, bolter Aggressors are cheaper, cause more damage because they don't have to stand around a turn, pump out more shots on average, are more flexible because they aren't forced to drop as close, and you still have the same charge and fall back flexibility with the Inceptor.

[Aothaine]

 

Or you can drop the bolter ones and fire the moment you arrive, then in the exact same situation you mentioned the second turn will allow them to fire twice if they don't move. All that for less points. That's on average 6 + D6 bolter shots, twice as many when you stand still.

 

That's significantly more reliable than 2d6 flamers with the same profile, which are statistically less shots before we even recognize they're dropping out of range and are forced to always do so at 9.01" or whatever.

 

So in summary, bolter Aggressors are cheaper, cause more damage because they don't have to stand around a turn, pump out more shots on average, are more flexible because they aren't forced to drop as close, and you still have the same charge and fall back flexibility with the Inceptor.

 

 

I hear ya. But the benefit of the flamer aggressors is more aligned with setting up a very scary unit to assault. So you screen the bolter aggressors with flamer aggressors. Also, it depends on how you build your list, what the map objectives are and how much terrain you have. Drop that flamer kill team in a building on the second floor and make sure they're within the range of an objective. They are going to be really difficult to move. I still prefer the bolter variant in most cases. But if you are playing a most assault based list I can see the Flame Aggressors shining.

[Lemondish]

 

 

Or you can drop the bolter ones and fire the moment you arrive, then in the exact same situation you mentioned the second turn will allow them to fire twice if they don't move. All that for less points. That's on average 6 + D6 bolter shots, twice as many when you stand still.

 

That's significantly more reliable than 2d6 flamers with the same profile, which are statistically less shots before we even recognize they're dropping out of range and are forced to always do so at 9.01" or whatever.

 

So in summary, bolter Aggressors are cheaper, cause more damage because they don't have to stand around a turn, pump out more shots on average, are more flexible because they aren't forced to drop as close, and you still have the same charge and fall back flexibility with the Inceptor.

 

I hear ya. But the benefit of the flamer aggressors is more aligned with setting up a very scary unit to assault. So you screen the bolter aggressors with flamer aggressors. Also, it depends on how you build your list, what the map objectives are and how much terrain you have. Drop that flamer kill team in a building on the second floor and make sure they're within the range of an objective. They are going to be really difficult to move. I still prefer the bolter variant in most cases. But if you are playing a most assault based list I can see the Flame Aggressors shining.

The issue I have with them is the same issue I have with all flamer weapons - their only real strength is really easy to counter. Glad you're able to find success with them, though!

 

But to conclude, the DW Intergressor squad is a pretty decent distraction Carnifex that is difficult to shift and spits out a ton of dakka (or flames things).

[Mobius0288]

Or "carnifices", take your pick

 

The core of my (planned) army will be primaris kill teams with a mix of intercessors and hellblasters, plus ven. dreads for ranged AT. What I'm looking for is something that I can drop into the enemy lines to cause maximum chaos and disruption.

 

Now, I know that the canonical answer for this is a Leviathan, but while I've got no problem with them some people can be sniffy about FW stuff, so I'd rather stick to GW if I can.

 

So I'd say that we've got some unique choices to fill that role, you just have to play slightly different then other armies.

 

What about a terminator captain with a storm bolter and melta/fist? or even combi-melta? Deep strike him with a cheap unit for ablative wounds and you've just created something nasty your opponent has to deal with.

 

Alternatively, I would say deep strike a 10-man intercessor squad. 20 shots at -1 AP with a 2+ to hit.... or those lovely vengeance rounds. You can't just not deal with that unless you deep strike in a corner where they can run away from you. Obviously you can deck them out in all sorts of ways but you could consider 5 intercessors and 5 hellblasters with an HQ. That squad is gonna do some work.

 

Blackstars with halo launchers could fill that role to a point: they will either pour everything into it and kill it, dead; or they will ignore it completely.... which is still a good thing because it can wreck infantry.

 

Ultimately, when you pick your distraction carnifax, pick something that's actually useful if your opponent doesn't go after it. Don't just buy a bunch of cheap units or one super expensive unit just because.

[vigitant]

Intergressor squad and/or a veteran team with 1-2 termies and some shields.  9 storm bolters and a vanguard.  Best non-FW inhouse.
Forge world has the termite drill now, as well.
For allies, Culexus/Eversor assassins are potent.  Guard has planes, though my favorite is a 2++ Ogryn bodyguard.  BA Smashhammer, of course.

I feel like most of Deathwatch IS a distraction carnifex, kinda.  More threat overload, really.

 

edit:  Forgot to add:

I did recently play a fun list using allied Space wolves as a ticking bomb to soak enemy fire:

1 bike Wolf Priest, 1 Bike Iron Priest
3 Venerable Dreadnaughts with Axe+Shield
Worked like a charm.

[Inquisitor Red]

Sucks your not open to FW, because the Chaplain Ven Dread makes for a pretty amazing Carifax distraction. Also an easy model to get a hold of if you just convert the Blood Angels Furioso Dread kit (comes with a chaplain skull face plate).

[Lemondish]

Sucks your not open to FW, because the Chaplain Ven Dread makes for a pretty amazing Carifax distraction. Also an easy model to get a hold of if you just convert the Blood Angels Furioso Dread kit (comes with a chaplain skull face plate).

 

Hadn't thought about re-purposing the Furiorso kit now that the FW Chaplain Dread kit is oop...good suggestion!

[KhorneHunter57x]

 

How do you feel about allies?

I'd prefer to avoid them if I can.. but I'm open to suggestions.

 

If you're open to (more expensive) allies, you might want to take a look at Imperial Knights - any Knight, especially a Gallant, or a couple Armiger Warglaives can cover ground quickly and force your opponent to deal with them. Plus, they're physically large and scary, so your opponent will pay attention to them.

[momerathe]

Sucks your not open to FW, because the Chaplain Ven Dread makes for a pretty amazing Carifax distraction. Also an easy model to get a hold of if you just convert the Blood Angels Furioso Dread kit (comes with a chaplain skull face plate).

FW or not, this is a pretty tempting idea, actually.. and shouldn't attract the same amount of salt as a Leviathan would.

 

If you're open to (more expensive) allies, you might want to take a look at Imperial Knights - any Knight, especially a Gallant, or a couple Armiger Warglaives can cover ground quickly and force your opponent to deal with them. Plus, they're physically large and scary, so your opponent will pay attention to them.

I thought about getting a detachment Knight+Helverins. It's tempting as well. Though I'm probably going to do a knight household as a future project, so I'm inclined to put the war machines off for later.

[Lemondish]

I thought about getting a detachment Knight+Helverins. It's tempting as well. Though I'm probably going to do a knight household as a future project, so I'm inclined to put the war machines off for later.

 

I was thinking of doing a Preceptor with Warglaives to kind of get all up front and personal and corral the enemy quickly in the traditional distraction carnifex sort of way. 

 

But I have so many projects atm that it'll take me ages to even get a chance to field those. 

[seriade]

It is forgeworld but a xyphon or a blackstar if you want to stay out of there can make a good distraction that the opponent does need to address as they can basically fly straight past the screens and park an inch off a character and turn them into mulch if he is not careful.