point_Zer0 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1508 points with rockets. Like...the hell?!Mastodon is 44PL but "only" 1060 pointsFalchion 40 Pl and 1017 points Thunderhawk 42 Pl and 1448 bare minimum with quite useless claster bombs. Did authors of the chapter approved throw a dart to decide the price?Also, as it turns out, it is not that durable and doesn't have that much dakka (really though - you can take 3 fire raptors and have 152 points to spare or even better - take 2 fire raptors and a storm eagle). Yeah, it can transport 30 models (15 primaris) but whom would you put in there? Only blood angels have those nice guys with thunder hummers and those don't need a 1508-point-flying brick to deliver them :) If it could transport dreadnoughts at least - you could've put a leviathan in there, but nope, please give those 30 tac marines a ride. p.s why the hell does the thunderhawk has a heavy 4 S8 -3 3D rockets?! The model itself has 6 rockets and not 4. Why only 3 damage and not d6??? And the laser destructor - why does it have D3 shots? It is worse than that new dominus' knight's lance. I mean, for 1.5k points, you should have something better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 The Thunderhawk was a decent call at its original cost (I got to use it in a half dozen games) and I still thought it was a poor choice compared to the three Storm Raven's that you could field in its stead. It carries less than the three, it can no longer carry dreads (when they could in every other edition), its turbolaser isn't even macro but it's still titanic, while the same turbolaser on a titan is macro: so it can't top off a Warhound but a Warhound will almost certainly clip a hawk's wings. And its rockets are expensive. If they threw a dart at a price point it wouldn't surprise me. I haven't been able to use it since the update. 2X cost increase is just ludicrous. So yes, I've been taking 2 storm eagles and xiphon support instead. The only mechanical benefit is that it's a Lord of War and thus not subject to the Flyers "Insta-lose" boots on the ground rule. yeah, I have a Blood Angel's air-cav army, lots of assault marines, lots of tacs, storm eagles, xiphons, Thunderhawk, and the hawk is by the weakest possible link. My Sons of Horus 8E army uses a Glaive as a Falchion and that is points well spent. Hawk... nope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5111842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Its currently utterly useless in play. Wait for them to fix the rules and costs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5112340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Absolute pitty since its mega fluffy and not overpowered in any sense, plus it brings that childish dreamy face in any player who sees it deployed. Bad move and hope its corrected soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5112360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The Thunderhawk (as with Titans) has fallen foul of the ‘We don’t want any big FW models in regular games.’ Policy of GW and has been costed accordingly. It’s why it’s power level is consistent with other ones but it’s price is hugely out of line. They only want these types of models in apocalypse games and not regular, matched play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5112384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 The Thunderhawk (as with Titans) has fallen foul of the ‘We don’t want any big FW models in regular games.’ Policy of GW and has been costed accordingly. It’s why it’s power level is consistent with other ones but it’s price is hugely out of line. They only want these types of models in apocalypse games and not regular, matched play. Agreed. Doesn't make it any less stupid though :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5115730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 The Thunderhawk (as with Titans) has fallen foul of the ‘We don’t want any big FW models in regular games.’ Policy of GW and has been costed accordingly. It’s why it’s power level is consistent with other ones but it’s price is hugely out of line. They only want these types of models in apocalypse games and not regular, matched play. Agreed. Doesn't make it any less stupid though :/ Oh yeah, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s utterly stupid but it seems that’s what their policy is :( I mean, even if someone agrees that those models only belong in apocalypse games, they should just make that a rule. The moment you start using points to force particular model choices on people you immediately invalidate the points system because it ceases to be a reliable balance tool and becomes what a version of how one or two key individuals see the game. Points should be purely a measure of balance/power on the table, they should not be used for anything else. They have other rules and systems for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5115746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkyHamHam Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I purchased one in November just before CA dropped. It's been in the box it came in ever since. Its been my dream since 3rd edition to run a thunderhawk strike force in a normal game. It's just completely priced out of the game now. It's super annoying because it isn't even a good unit at its original 8th point cost. I don't mind FW units being a little over costed and not efficient. It keeps the haters happy, the tournament players from abusing them, and most important... GW from knee jerk nerfing them. But this is just ridiculous. I'll be very sad when my Leviathans inevitably hit 500 points... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5115824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Ugh, you're telling me UnkyHamHam, the original price point was a tough pill to swallow compared to the alternatives. But, with its extra ablative protection in the save and higher toughness, I said 'yeah, it's... alright I guess'. A hundred or so point premium and a slight reduction in transport ability was a small price to pay for the glory of being able to fly a thunderhawk and drop off a strike force. Because yeah, that 3E C:SM back cover splash with the full Ultramarine Chapter and its thunderhawks sold me on wanting one twenty years ago. ... oh Warmaster, has it been that long? Anyone thinking this might also be going for that push towards using Power Points that GW has been peddling recently? I mean, it's Power Level hasn't changed, just the points. Which, like ya' said, keeps the tournament folk happy. Ugh, 500 point leviathans... yeah, I could see it creeping up there and I sure don't like it. Along with Relic/Helforged contemptors climbing, too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5115837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Nah, it's just a knee jerk reaction from GW because some FW units were costed too low and lots of old fashioned players have a vendetta against FW and cried out in unison across the Internet. Of course, some units like Super Chicken and the malific lord were ridiculous but they didn't have to punish everything across the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5115854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Yeah, those were definitely bad Ishagua, but what irks me is that even the maelific are still playable even if not in the same quantity. The same basically can't be said about the big FW heavies that saw a near 100% increase in some cases. The points cost is heavy and painful enough, but it feels more like an opportunity cost that's way out of proportion rather than just the relative worth of the unit (Seeing super heavies as an opportunity cost might have come from 30K's whole deal which I'll admit, the big bad beasts never felt pointed right. They were just points tied to the size of game that was chosen) It sure wasn't the 30-50 point minor changes like a lot of FW stuff needed. Hopefully we'll see another correction in this years CA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5115860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Yep same here. My dream list is: 10x wolf guard terminators teleporting 20 grey slayers and Bjorn coming in a Thawk Super fluffly, underpowered a bit if anything in 2k but fun enough to play regardless cuz SPACE marines come from Space. Points cost and Dreadnought rule make it impossible :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348453-thunderhawk-utility-and-cost/#findComment-5116397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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