Raven Guard and Deathwatch?

[SamG]

Hello my fellow Ravens,

 

am I the only one who feels there might be some synergy between the Raven Guard and the Deathwatch?

 

The Raven Guard being able to lurk in the shadows, and provide nice long-range firepower, protected by their CT of course, while the Deathwarch would come in where needed and deliver a crippling blow like they do.

 

I've started tinkering with such a list, and would welcome any feedback on it. This is not meant for cutthroat tournament environments, but would be nice if I could get a nice TAC list.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348522-raven-guard-deathwatch-1850-pts/

 

cheers!

[shandwen]

Personally I would avoid mixing deathwatch with another power armored force as they have the same problems (survivability and lack of numbers), so I would look to guard or perhaps knights to sort out some of the issues. That said, both fluff wise and gameplay wise Ravenguard fit the best of any of the standard chapters. I would consider replacing the dread with something that would provide more "oomph", but I imagine others have seen a better outcome from taking those than I have.

[SamG]

Personally I would avoid mixing deathwatch with another power armored force as they have the same problems (survivability and lack of numbers), so I would look to guard or perhaps knights to sort out some of the issues. That said, both fluff wise and gameplay wise Ravenguard fit the best of any of the standard chapters. I would consider replacing the dread with something that would provide more "oomph", but I imagine others have seen a better outcome from taking those than I have.

 

To be honest, I included the Dread mostly because I love the model, and I recently acquired one ;)

 

What would you recommend replacing him with then?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

It's a cool concept, and I do agree that the nature of the two forces have some synergy that would lead to playing them together. I think there are a few takeaway points to consider when trying to couple the two together.

 

1) Mobility: In your current list you are very light on mobility. If you wan't to stick with a mono-infantry list, then your best bet is going to be Jump Packs on all your characters, instead of just half of them. While I understand the Captain/LT right now are parked with the Devs/Dread, its not a great return on investment (3 lascannons, 1 Heavy Bolter, and the dread). Also don't forget you can use Wisdom of the Ancients on turns where you absolutely have to hit with those devs.

 

2) Anti-Tank: That list is light on AT. I personally feel the best option to come out of the Death Watch book is the 5 Intercessor / 5 Hellblaster unit (perhaps 4 and 1 Aggressor). In answer to your "Which Dread/replace him with" question: Regular 2x Twin Autocannon Dreads (136 points - cheap) or 2x Twin Lascannon Contemptor Mortis (Stronger at performing his task).

 

3) Aggressors are most effective in one of two roles: Raven Guard, using STFS, and standing still OR one token Aggressor assigned to an Intercessor squad for the benefits. 

 

This is a fast and dirty list I just tossed together with some of my "Classics"

 

RG Battalion:

 

Jump Pack Captain - TH/SS

Jump Pack Captain - TH/SS

 

5x Scout Squad (Bolters)

5x Scout Squad (Bolters)

5x Scout Squad (Bolters)

 

Dread - 2x Twin Autocannon

Dread - 2x Twin Autocannon

Dread - 2x Twin Autocannon

 

Devastator Squad - 3x Bolters, ML, HB, Cherub (I kept this so you can abuse the Hellfire/Flakk synergy, to an extent)

 

DW Battalion

 

Watch Captain - TH/SS

Watch Master - Tome of Ectoclades/Lord of Hidden Knowledge - WARLORD

 

5x Intercessors - Bolt Rifles

-4x Hellblasters - Plasma Incenerators

-1x Inceptor - Plasma Exterminators

 

5x Intercessors - Bolt Rifles

-4x Hellblasters - Plasma Incenerators

-1x Inceptor - Plasma Exterminators

 

5x Veterans - Storm Bolters/Chainswords

-1x Vanguard Veteran - 2x Bolt Pistol

 

Bikers 3x Twin Boltgun, Storm Bolter

 

This is 2k on the nose, however there are some easily change-able things:

 

1) I am personally not a fan of the Dev synergy in a dual faction list, nor am I a fan of Lascannons on Devs (too easy to kill). I could easily see dumping them for:

2) Still light on mobility, more Deathwatch Biker units like the one above at 91 points are very good. I would consider trimming to add another 1-2 units or bulking out existing units

3) I feel like exploiting the Deep Strike stratgem is one of the hidden gems in the Deathwatch codex, but I couldn't find a good/effective unit to use with it - perhaps just one or both of the Intercessor units are the best candidate (along with deep striking the captain). You could also switch the Watch Master to another captain.

Dread - 2x Twin Autocannon

 

[SamG]

Thanks a lot ltvyper, this was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for!

 

I agree with you that the list needs some more mobility, so JP for everyone I guess   Do you believe DW bikes to be better than the RG Scout Bikes in this list (assuming their main objective is speed & survivability to grab objectives), I'd think the protection of the RG -1 to hit would outweigh the benefts of the Deathwatch tactics.

 

I think the plain Veteran Storm Bolters unit might be a good candidate for the Deep Strike Strategem, since you can put them into Rapid Fire range.

 

The Autocannon Dreads are probably the more efficiënt option, although I'm limited to having only one Dreadnought model (the Redemptor) and no real plans to acquire more for now.

 

I'll rework the list a bit and then update it. Thanks for the feedback!

[Race Bannon]

Heck.  Yes.  Vyper, that was an excellent analysis and suggestion.

 

Corax Approved, to be sure :tu:

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

You're welcome!

 

Regarding the Scout Bikes vs Death Watch bikes, I think they are both viable and it depends on your meta and terrain (to a degree). Keep in mind that Bikes themselves can't move into/on area terrain in 8th edition, so you mainly have to rely on their ability to kill whatever your opponent parked on it. I also think given the nature of bikes and the desire to get into Rapid Fire range, that means the RG Chapter Tactic will prove less effective. Given the nature of these two things, on paper, I believe the DW Bikers to be a better choice. That being said, if you play on a very terrain dense map, the RG Scout Bikes may prove to be the better cost/speed compromise as long as you can effectively hide them.

 

I figured I would take into consideration what you said and re-vamp the list to take into account your dread.

 

RG Battalion:

 

Jump Pack Captain - TH/SS

Jump Pack Captain - TH/SS

 

5x Scout Squad (Bolters)

5x Scout Squad (Bolters)

5x Scout Squad (Bolters)

 

6x Aggressor Squad (Boltstorm/Fragstorm)

 

Devastator Squad - 4x Bolters, HB, Cherub  (Unsure about this)

 

DW Battalion

 

Watch Captain - TH/SS

Watch Master - Tome of Ectoclades/Lord of Hidden Knowledge - WARLORD

 

5x Intercessors - Bolt Rifles (1x Aux Grenade Launcher)

-4x Hellblasters - Plasma Incenerators

-1x Inceptor - Plasma Exterminators

 

5x Intercessors - Bolt Rifles (1x Aux Grenade Launcher)

-4x Hellblasters - Plasma Incenerators

-1x Inceptor - Plasma Exterminators

 

5x Veterans - Storm Bolters/Chainswords

-1x Vanguard Veteran - 2x Bolt Pistol

 

Bikers 3x Twin Boltgun, Storm Bolter

 

Redemptor Dread - 2x Stormbolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

I would use the teleport strat on the Dread every game, given he is your only armor he will be a bullet magnet for Anti Tank, you can drop him in, hose down some screens, and maybe get lucky with a T2 charge, OR you can just drop him in your deployment zone on T1 and start shooting in a fashion that restricts your opponents ability to shoot back.