Fan Made Black Templars 8th Edition Codex

[Dracos]

Giving up Centurions is like giving up turnips. Sacrificing something literally no one uses (competitively) is not sacrifice at all. Give up Devastators and that would be truly showing conviction of purpose ... at least Centurions can fire on the move toward the enemy. A much more Black Templar thing to do.

 

Not overly serious about suggesting losing Devestators but seriously Centurions are a zero sum loss, especially for Templars.

[Ishagu]

They might get a point drop in CA however.

[DBadger]

There are BT successors that won't have Helbrecht.

[BloodWolves]

So then I think the idea of having the C:SM stratagem of Captain being upgraded to Chapter Master will be unavailable to Black Templars.

 

(Even though Ive seen Crimson Fist players elect a captain to be a chapter master instead of Kantor, or an RG captain to CM instead to Shrike, or an UM captain to CM instead of Calagar.. well you get my point. Lots of Chapters who have chapter master models do get replaced for a single battle.)

 

Anyway, Im sorry Schlitaf... I dont think i will add those new unit names. It will be difficult for new and old players to know what they are, like for example a Conquistador squad. No one, pardon you and anyone who has read this thread knows what that is. Its a good idea but I think keeping it simple for now is the best course of action.

 

It'll be an easier of a port over if we just try and keep what the Black Templars are currently in 8th Edition but reintroduce Black Templar exclusive Stratagems and vows to boost. Like i said.. I dont think the right way to go about this is to make the Black Templars OP with access to lots of wargear and power weapons and new units with too many new rules.

[Kallas]

Also consider that 40K gameplay has rarely ever been considered to be in the current moment as a matter of course. Sometimes players will want to represent their Chapter at a certain point in the timeline, where some characters may not be in the positions they currently are, such as Shrike: now he's Chapter Master, but someone may want to run their own Raven Guard during a time when Shrike was off doing his whole 3rd Shadow Company thing while someone else was the boss.

[Schlitzaf]

I mean if we want to recreate the Templar Playstyle we need new units; at minimum NeoAssault and NeoBiker Squads. Also the reason I mention losing chapter master strategem is every two other ‘normal’ SM Book beside C:SM has replaced CM Strategem with something else.

DA) Inner Circle

BA) Death Visions

 

Puppies likely get something to represent Wulfen Character. So we get instead of CM strategem, the Champion one. And for the record BT Successor Chapters unless doing count as, won’t have access to BT Restrictions on units or renames.

 

In any case, if we want to bring back vows, the best way to do so is via led CHAMPION characters take a second Warlord Trait. It’s the easiest mechanical way to do so. And requires no new strategems and only a Warlord trait or two.

 

@Kallas yes? The pattern however is that so far for non C:SM Codexes they have lost the chapter master strategam. And had it replaced by something else (Inner Circle/Death Company).

[Medjugorje]

playstyle doesnt need new units... just new special rules like in the 4th Edition codex. New units will be difficult to create here.

[Panzer]

Also the reason I mention losing chapter master strategem is every two other ‘normal’ SM Book beside C:SM has replaced CM Strategem with something else.

DA) Inner Circle

BA) Death Visions

 

Puppies likely get something to represent Wulfen Character. So we get instead of CM strategem, the Champion one.

 

 

@Kallas yes? The pattern however is that so far for non C:SM Codexes they have lost the chapter master strategam. And had it replaced by something else (Inner Circle/Death Company).

 

Which is honestly a stupid decision by GW and shouldn't get copied imo.

[Schlitzaf]

playstyle doesnt need new units... just new special rules like in the 4th Edition codex. New units will be difficult to create here.

Which will be? I mean the reason I wanted to modify Bikers and Assault Marines to have Power Weapons. Is that any new rules should help make 1A Models Power Weapons better. (This isn’t say they are bad they just aren’t good. And only viable in tide squads where spending the 8-10 points is only a small percentage of the unit cost where the Squad natural efficiency outweighs the cons of being slightly less efficient).

 

If New Units are bluntly no go (seriously Biker Crusaders are Units we should have) what I think be best is the following.

 

A model from the Black Templar Chapter that can take Heavy Weapons, may take one of the following instead

Power Sword

Power Maul

Power Ax

Power Fist

 

Or if we want to super weirdly specific, any model that can take a Flamer or Heavy Weapon may take one of the following instead

Power Sword

Power Maul

Power Ax

Power Fist

 

Then we create a couple Warlord traits called Vow of X, and a rule Templars saying “If army is Battleforged and has a Black Templar Warlord one of the following models may be given one of the “Vow of X” Warlord trait:

Emperor’s Champion

Adeptus Astartes Company Champion

Chapter Champion

[Sword Brother Adelard]

While I admire the zeal in your original idea BloodWolves, IMO I would steer well away from trying to craft a fluff codex. At the moment when GW changes the fluff we can all rail against a common enemy, if we try and reconcile the fluff ourselves I foresee civil war. As a community we generally cannot agree on anything. (Example in this thread: Centurions, definitely in the fluff, not in the fourth edition codex.)

[DBadger]

Perhaps GW could produce a framework for either:

 

- scratch building an army codex

- swapping out elements of an army list

 

So we can tinker with things ourselves. Like swapping out heavy weapons for power weapons as mentioned above.

[BloodWolves]

Yes i understand, Hence why I have elected to do an 8th edition Index (expanded to include Stratagems and reintroduce vows).

 

So after rereading the current Crusader squad amd space marine biker rules, I believe it wont be hard to state that:

 

- Any Space Marine Biker may replace his bolt pistol with a chainsword.

 

- Up to 2 Space Marine Bikers in a single squad may replace their bolt pistol with a power sword, power axe or special weapons list.

 

So that wont be a massive change that couldnt be rectified in a GW FaQ or GW Chapter Approved.

[BloodWolves]

I thought the Black Templars didnt have successor chapters? Oops. My bad.

 

I think a rewrite of having a Marshal being upgraded to a High Marshal could be done. But with the rule "If Helbrecht is already on the field, you cannot use this stratagem"

 

So my idea after reading the BA codex, is to reintroduce the Sword Brethren unit as a better Death Company. The DC is a good melee unit i believe that could lay a good framework for a powerful Black Templars unit. This will replace Codex Sternguard and Vanguard units.

 

Sword Brethren 5-10 Models per unit.

Elite

 

M6" WS3+ BS3+ STR4 T4 W1 A2 LD7 S3+

 

Rules and restrictions:

 

- Any Model may take a jump pack, if all units in a squad do, Move Characteristics are increased to 12". (Points + Power increase)

- A Sword Brethren unit may take Terminator armour. (Points + Power increase)

 

- Relic Blades and Special Issue boltguns can be taken.

- Any model may replace its bolt pistol with a boltgun or plasma pistol,

- Any model may replace its chainsword with a power sword or power axe

- Any model may replace its bolt pistol and chainsword for lighting claws or thunder hammer.

 

Restriction: Blade and Bolter:

- This unit does not have access to sergeant equipment, special weapons, heavy weapons, combi-weapons, terminator combi-weapons, or terminator heavy weapons.

 

Rule ?.) If the unit exceeds over 1 unit, an Emperors Champion must be an HQ choice.

 

OR

 

Rule ?.) An Emperors Champion may issue out vows for the Sword Brethren.

 

So it can be done as a D3 Discipline for a cost 105pts to bestow upon all Sword Brethren for the game.

Restriction: All Sword Brethren must take the same vow.

 

D3

 

1.) Suffer not the Unclean to Live: The Black Templars Sword Brethren may attack twice in the fight phase.

 

2.) Uphold the Honour of the Emperor: Roll a D6 each time this unit loses a wound, on a 6+, the wound is ignored, in addition, any units in combat will not be lost during the morale phase.

 

3.) Accept any Challenge, No Matter the Odds: Sword Brethren may fire at full BS during overwatch and may attack first against any successful units on the charge.

 

Or, You pay for the vow you wanted in points.

60pts per unit.

Restriction: All Sword Brethren must take the same vow.

 

If we choose the "Pay per unit" we can add the 4th vow.

 

Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch: The Sword Brethren unit may ignore psychic effects on a 5+ and may target enemy psykers regardless if they are the closest unit or not.

 

A new stratagem could be:

Remember your Vows 1CP: You may exchange the Sword Brethren vows to a vow of your choice for the duration of the game.

 

Emperors Champion point increase: 85pts

Sword Brethren points: 17pts per model.

 

Reasons for Pts:

1.) Emperors Champion being given vows is almost equal to how a librarian can give boosts. However, I believe the Emperors Champion should be cheaper since they cannot cast magical mortal wounds, take terminator armour or ride a bike (though that would be cool as heck)

 

2.) Sword Brethren are to be a replacement for Sternguard and Vanguard but have access to both relic blades and MC Boltguns and can receive boosts.

 

I did my best to balance out what we get vs what we must sacrifice and pay for but i think this will be the best way to go.

 

Ive looked at Sternguard/Vanguard, Death Company and even the Khorne Berserkers for examples and guidelines. *BLAM* HERESY.

[BloodWolves]

So i think Im going to focus on stratagems vs characters for right now.

 

We will need at least 13 Black Templar unique stratagems to be somewhats equal to other codexes. Since we're binded to take things like auspex scan, orbital bombardment, Flakk Missle etc. and those commons ones I dont think we should change just for the sense of ease and not being tempted to create 25 OP stratagems.

 

I do however believe that the Chapter Tactics of "Righteous Zeal" should be:

"Black Templar units may charge after advancing and may also reroll charge rolls."

 

Just reading the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics seems stacked compared to everyone elses.

[Schlitzaf]

That not entirely correct the thing about our chapter tactics is we get

“Reroll Charge And Best Tactical Equivalent in the Game Bar None”

[BloodWolves]

Point taken.. Maybe ill just have to make the Charge after advancing a stratagem.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I don't think re-rolling charges is as good as 3D6

[BloodWolves]

I agree but maybe that 3D6 charge might be better suited for a dream future codex.

[Shamansky]

 It cannot take attack bikes.

But... why?

[Medjugorje]

I don't think re-rolling charges is as good as 3D6

i think 3d6 charges are too good. Blood Angels pay extra CP for that. I would say it would be more templar like if you just get a bonus by casaulties.

[Schlitzaf]

I mean I have I prefer the double combiflamer being able to shoot and advance. And shoot on reception of charge (really it’s reception of charge that is super important here)

 

Edit wrong thread, could a mod delete or move this post?

[Schlitzaf]

 

 

It cannot take attack bikes.

But... why?

No reason in particular but main goal is further seperate Biker Crusaders and regular Bike Squads. And I don’t believe Codex Armageddon had the option for Attack Bikes in Biker Squads.

[BloodWolves]

Still working hard on this Black Templar 8th Edition Index..

 

Right now, im faced with a dilemma..

I would set up a poll but here are some ideas i am looking at.

 

1.) No Sternguard, Vanguard, Veterans... Its all rolled into 1 as

 

"Sword Brethren"

M-6 WS-3 BS-3 S-4 T-4 W-1 A-2 Ld-8 Sv-3

 

Restriction: Blade and Bolter:

- This unit does not have access to sergeant equipment, special weapons, heavy weapons, combi-weapons, terminator combi-weapons, or terminator heavy weapons.

 

and Terminators (like deathwatch veteran teams) can join. Standard At 16 (+2pts for jump pack) points per model (26 pts for Terminators).

 

Masters of the Blade: Any Black Templar with the "SWORD BRETHREN" Keyword gains +1 Attack with a Power Sword, Power Axe or Lightning Claw.

(Note: This does include the Sword Brother in Crusader Squads)

 

2.) 3 CP Stratagem

Masters of the Blade: Any Black Templar with a Power Sword, Power Axe or Lightning Claws gains +1 Attack for the duration of the game.

 

3.) 1 CP Stratagem

Masters of the Blade: "Same as above" but only for a single fight phase.

[BloodWolves]

A few stratagems...

 

Black Templar Assault Ramp 2CP: For a single turn, Black Templars disembarking from a Land Raider Crusader may charge after a Land Raider Crusader has moved.

(Need better understanding around this, be nice please.)

 

Reclusiarch, Not Sir. 3CP: A single chaplain may be upgraded to rhe rank of Reclusiarch. A Reclusiarch has the same stats as a Chaplain but also may attempt a single Deny the Witch during the psychic phase. Also, any enemies suffer a -1 to Ld when within 3" of a Reclusiarch.

Note: Cannot be taken if Chaplain Grimaldus is fielded. (Respect...)

 

Marshal Law 3CP: A single Marshal may be upgraded to a High Marshal.

Note: Cannot be taken if High Marshal Helbrecht is fielded.

[Shamansky]

 

 

It cannot take attack bikes.

But... why?

No reason in particular but main goal is further seperate Biker Crusaders and regular Bike Squads. And I don’t believe Codex Armageddon had the option for Attack Bikes in Biker Squads.

 

I find having an attack bike a very useful option. Multi-melta option is not very good now of course. But heavy bolter, 2x Wounds and as many attacks as a sword brother look awesome. I use attack bike upgrade since 5th edition. And i love how it works.