Morticon Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Hey all - so it's that time of year again.The Veteran's tournament is around the corner. I'll post the newest missions up when I can - still trying to figure out how to do that now that photobucket is dead. This year sees some big changes to Vets. To accommodate 8th, games have gone up to 3000 points from 2500, and the amount of games is down to 4 over two days. Additionally, composition is MUCH stricter, and it's almost impossible to get full composition, however, composition has only dropped to 50, from 60, meaning that its % tournament weight is higher. On top of all of the regular Veteran's insanity, the Veteran's Strike Force Detachment (Tourney specific detachment), while incredibly restrictive and giving a -10 off the bat, comes with a metric boatload of CP aaaaand, also comes with a HUGE array of very powerful Stratagems. Things are definitely looking to be exciting. I'll post more as soon as I have it. Stay tuned for lists, tactics discussions, brainstorming and eventually battlereports!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 ARMY COMPOSITION This year's composition scores have been greatly modified on account of 8th edition. Composition score has been designed with the intent for it to be near impossible to balance incredibly powerful lists with a perfect score. As a result, players will find that where they could get composition bonuses before, they are now unable to do so.This is the intent of the system. Players will have to weigh up strength and power of their lists with their composition score.Army Composition is designed to give a small bonus to those playing themed, “fluffy” and representative lists that are a good reflection of the 40k universe, rather than an all-out “min-maxed” list designed to win. All Players will start off with 50 POINTS for their army composition. Points will then be deducted or added, to a minimum of 0 (max 50), for various things from the list below. PRIMARY DETACHMENT:A primary detachment is defined as being one from which your Warlord is drawn.You may not choose an Auxiliary detachment, as your primary detachment. BUILDING YOUR LIST: There are two categories for deductions: 1: BUILD STYLE and 2: UNIT DEDUCTIONS BUILD STYLE: • -10 for a Veteran Strike Force Detachment. • -3 for a Brigade Detachment.• -4 For a second Detachment. • And an additional -2 For each Duplicate Detachment (eg: 2x Battalion Detachments)• -6 For a third Detachment. • And an additional -2 For each Duplicate Detachment (eg: 2x Battalion Detachments) • An additional -8 for each non-primary Detachment that is from the same “race” as the primary, but a different “faction”/”chapter tactics”/”cult”/”regiment” etc. (eg: A Space Marine primary Battalion detachment with the Salamanders Chapter Tactics coupled with a Space Marine patrol detachment with the Ultramarine Chapter Tactics will warrant a -13 penalty)• -10 For each Detachment after the third. • For Drukhari that take a Real Space Raiders Force, the following apply instead of the above:• - 2 for each Patrol detachment after the first.• An additional -2 if the detachment is from a duplicate faction. UNIT DEDUCTIONS FOC: • -5 For every *UNIT* duplication, other than TROOPS and DEDICATED TRANSPORTS. (eg: 3 Devastator squads will warrant -10 AC points) *** • -2 For every vehicle duplication with less than 12 wounds in the DEDICATED TRANSPORTS slot after the first two • -3 For every vehicle duplication with less than 14 wounds in the DEDICATED TRANSPORTS. slot after the first two. • -4 For every vehicle duplication with less than 20 wounds in the DEDICATED TRANSPORTS. slot after the first two.• (NOTE: Units containing individual models with more than 6 wounds each will count as a duplication) • -2 For each unit of TROOPS after the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT that are not full strength. • -15 For no TROOP units at full strength. • -5 if your list has no ELITE units that are full strength ** • -5 if your list has no HEAVY units that are full strength ** • -5 if your list has no FAST units that are full strength ** • -15 if the total points of TROOPS is less than the total of any 2 other FOC categories. -5 if you have not taken every optional unit in your primary detachment (Dedicated Transports not counted) Only -3 if you have not taken every optional unit and your primary detachment is a Brigade. (Dedicated Transports not counted) -3 for each detachment after the primary that does not have every optional choice selected. -3 for each unit in a primary detachment that is not above 50% full strength. -1 for each unit in a primary detachment that is not above 66% full strength. UNIT/WEAPONS • -3 if your list contains a unit with the “Mighty Bulkward” special rule. • -3 for each Flyer with 10 or more wounds after the 2nd.• -2 for each Flyer with 7-9 wounds after the 2nd. • -1 For each Unique Character/Unit • -1 For each Forgeworld Unit • -3 For a Forgeworld Chapter/Army ** Of course, this will not count if the army has no Elite, Heavy or Fast units. Units of one, will not count, neither will units of a set/unchangeable size. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5115805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 VETERAN’S STRIKE FORCE DETACHMENT: The VSFD works differently from other detachments in that it requires you have % of your army invested in certain Battlefield Roles, rather than a certain number of units. There are also additional associated rules and restrictions and certain missions that require units be selected for certain objectives may be dictated. The build is very restrictive, but will come with it's own perks. HQ - Minimum 10%TROOPS - Minimum 40%ELITE - Minimum 10%HEAVY - Minimum 10%FAST ATTACK - Minimum 10% DEDICATED TRANSPORTS – No minimum. Maximum 20%FLYERS – No minimum, Maximum 15% Other than TROOPS, ALL slots have a maximum of 20% SPECIAL RULES TACTICAL COHERENCY* A VSFD is made up of a single codex, single faction, battleforged army. ASSOCIATED DEDICATED TRANSPORTS* VSFDs may buy Dedicated Transports that are "Associated" with a TROOP choice.* If they do this, the transport counts towards the Troop %, although does not gain the TROOP battlefield role.* However, any *full* (ie: not combat-squaded) unit that has an ADT must deploy embarked in the transport at the start of the game. * No other units may use an ADT. COMMAND POINTS* VSFDs have a TOTAL of 20 Command Points. These points cannot be increased in any way, and may not be regained through wargear or special abilities or warlord traits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5115807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 MISSION 1: SET UP: PRIMARY OBJECTIVE – 15 Points (10 Points for secondary condition) MODIFIED KILL POINTS: 1. Before set up, but after declaring Combat Squads, both players declare 3 units of their OWN to be the targeted KP units. a. If you have a VSF Detachment, two of your own units selected MUST be the unit with the Aspiring Champion and another Troop Unit of your choice. 2. AFTER set up and after scout moves, but before seize the initiative, the opponent chooses 3 units of yours to be additional targeted KP units. 3. The only KP that count in this game are the 6 selected units. Kill more targeted units than your opponent and score 15 points. Kill the same amount of targeted units as your opponent and score 10 points. . SECONDARY OBJECTIVE – 10 Points (5 Points for Secondary Condition) CLEARANCE DUTY: Draw two 12” zones from the centre line of the board. This is the “Dead Land” - a heavily mined no-man's land area. Clear this area of more mines than your enemy to uncover the Relic hidden beneath it. You may clear the mines in two ways: 1: By having models starting or ending a move, advance or charge in this area. Every time you do so, the unit that does so suffers d3 mortal wounds for each full 5 models in the unit. Every 2 wounds inflicted (saved or unsaved) is a mine detonated. 2: You may dedicate an entire unit's shooting to clearing the mines. The unit must destroy a “Mine” of the following profile: T:4, W2, Sv 6+ Each unit must dedicate all available weapons to shoot at the mines and Each unit can only clear one “mine” at a time, irrespective of how many weapons. It has. If you have cleared more mines than your enemy at the end, you receive 10 points. If you and your enemy have cleared equal amount of mines, you receive 5 points. TERTIARY OBJECTIVE - 5 Points STRATEGIC ENGAGEMENT: 1. Follow the rules for “Strategic Engagement ” as laid out in the mission pack. a. Note: For the first 2 turns of this mission, you must draw cards 21-36. If you have more mission Points than your enemy at the end, you receive 5 points. THREE BONUS OBJECTIVES –2 Points Each MISSION 2: PRIMARY OBJECTIVE – 15 Points THE RELIC: 1. Follow the rules for “The Relic” mission in the WH40k Rule Book ignoring the noted secondary objectives. If you end the game with the Relic, you receive 15 points. If you are the closest model to the Relic, you receive 10 points. If you and the enemy have a model the same* distance ( *within 1/2” distance) you both receive 5 points. SECONDARY OBJECTIVE – 10 Points (5 Points for Secondary Condition) STRATEGIC ENGAGEMENT: 1. Follow the rules for “Strategic Engagement ” as laid out in the mission pack. If you have more mission Points than your enemy at the end, you receive 10 points. If you and your enemy have equal points, you receive 5 points. TERTIARY OBJECTIVE - 5 Points FIRST IN, LAST OUT Only units in your Primary Detachment may deploy on the battle field. All other units not placed into voluntary reserve may arrive on the FIRST TURN. However, they may only move on from the battle field from their board edge. The units moving on to the board this way suffer a -1 penalty to shooting in addition to any other penalty they may suffer – to a maximum of a -2. This penalty supersedes any codex ability preventing modifiers. All other units deploying into reserve normally follow regular restrictions. For purposes of voluntary reserve calculations, add the PL of the units moving in from your board edge to the units deployed on the table. Kill more enemy Primary Detachment Units than your opponent – 5 points. THREE BONUS OBJECTIVES – 2 Points Each MISSION 3 SET UP: Hammer and Anvil PRIMARY OBJECTIVE – 15 Points (10points for secondary condition) COMMAND BEACON and RELAY POST: 1. Prior to both sides being deployed place each of your Tech Site’s in your deployment zone as the Relay Post. 2. After both sides have deployed, but before scout, infiltrate and seize, the players will place a single terminator sized base as the Command Beacon in the middle of the board. 3. Roll the scatter dice and move the objective 2d6” to the LEFT or RIGHT as most closely represented by the scatter die. If you claim YOUR Relay Post AND the Beacon you receive 10points. If you claim YOUR Relay Post and you have SCORING UNITS on the Beacon but it is CONTESTED with opposing SCORING UNITS you receive 5 points SECONDARY OBJECTIVE – 10 Points (5 Points for secondary condition) SPECIAL DELIVERY: 1. One Troop unit must be kept in reserve. They automatically arrive in turn two, without the need for rolling. 2. This unit must START its turn within 3” of the Vault Marker, and END its SUBSEQUENT turn within 3” of the Objective Marker* in order to complete this mission. SEE ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATIONS ABOVE If you complete the mission and your opponent does not, you receive 10 points. If you both complete this mission you receive 5 points. TERTIARY OBJECTIVE - 5 Points SABOTAGE! DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON’T: 1. After set up and deployment, but before starting first turn, inform your opponent which one ranged weapon type, psychic power or ranged ability (in the case of demonic weapons, gifts etc.) on one of their units will be the “Sabotaged Action”. If your “Sabotaged Action” is NOT used/fired the entire game you receive 5points. THREE BONUS OBJECTIVES – 2 Points Each The Objective Marker will be placed 18” from the short board edge, in the middle of the table. MISSION 4 SET UP: PRIMARY OBJECTIVE - 15 Points (10points for Secondary Condition) WARP OUT: 1. In an effort to leave the planet before EXTERMINATUS, players must reach the warp area and warp out. There is a 5” marker in the centre of the table. This is the Warp Access Point. a. To warp out, you must end your movement phase with more than 50% of your unit in the Warp Out Area (if possible). b. Up to two units may then warp out. c. They play no further role in the game. If you warp out more units than your enemy you receive15 points. Warping out the same amount of units as your enemy you receive 10 points Warping out your Warlord automatically loses you the game. SECONDARY OBJECTIVE - 10 Points (5 Points for Secondary Condition) SCORCHED EARTH Phase 1: 1. In order to leave nothing of use on the planet, have non-vehicle units in, or touching as many terrain features as possible at the end of turn 3. 2. You may remove one terrain feature from the board for each scoring unit in or touching them. Continue to do this each turn from the 3rd. Note: Units may not do this from inside a transport! If you removed more than your opponent you receive 10 points If you removed the same number of pieces as your opponent, you receive 5 points. TERTIARY OBJECTIVE - 5 Points SCORCHED EARTH Phase 2: 1. Destroy more board quarters by having more POINTS worth of scoring units in each quarter than your enemy has. Units below 50% strength (models/wounds) count as half their value. Complete this mission for 5 points THREE BONUS OBJECTIVES – 2 Points Each BONUS MISSIONS: BEFORE EACH GAME, PLAYERS WILL ROLL 2D6 THREE TIMES AND CONSULT THE TABLE FOR THEIR BONUS POINT MISSIONS. THE THREE ROLLED MISSIONS WILL APPLY TO BOTH PLAYERS. Immovable: At least one surviving unit does not move, go to ground or fall back during the game. First Blood: As per rule book. Invoke Panic: Be the first player to get an enemy to lose an enemy to a morale check. Secure the Tech Site: Have a scoring unit, and no enemy units, within 2” of your Tech Site Resource Control: Keep you your highest point unit alive. Slay the Warlord: As per rule book Righteous Retribution: Destroy a unit entirely in Close Combat (Morale checks will count, running off the board in a subsequent turn will not!) – ANY other casualties or damage suffered from another source other than Close Combat, will prevent this. Revenge Frack: Kill the unit that scored “First Blood” (valid even if no FirstBlood rolled) Line Breaker: As per rule book. Last Laugh: Be the last player to completely destroy a unit Back to Training: If one surviving unit failed to give an unsaved wound/damage any unit/model or score/contest an objective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5115810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 So....It's likely that I'll be taking a VSF - though the list I can take with it is really underwhelming but will net me the highest composition points. No special characters, and only 2 FW items- as opposed to my usual lot. For information sake, no one has won Veteran's without a full or close to full Composition score before! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Which FW units? Scorpius and Quad Mortars? Also, would you consider Scout Bikes? Worth doing the banner shenanigans? Don't forget 1 or 2 Devs Squads for the "double-dip" mortal wounds! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Oooph, Veterans is always an interesting one. For picture uploading, I'd suggest Imgur.com, they've always done well by me, and were set up originally as an alternative to Photobucket that let people link and embed images more easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Which FW units? Scorpius and Quad Mortars? Also, would you consider Scout Bikes? Worth doing the banner shenanigans? Don't forget 1 or 2 Devs Squads for the "double-dip" mortal wounds! Spot on call matey - exactly those two. Dont have scouts bikers - though, I possibly would have given a strong argument for them? Banner Shenanigans? The penalty for 2 Devs is too high. Lose 5 points for 2 of em :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Banner shenanigans discovered here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344689-standard-of-sacrifice-question/ tl:dr - if you have a SG Ancient/TGA Ancient and a Company Ancient in the board, the CA's bonus will proc when the others do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Filthy. I love it. Not sure i can work it in...but i will see ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I suppose it depends what else you use. The Comp one can sit with the Devs/Mortars and a SG one can be UWoF'd up the field to support an attack element - just daisy chain them out to stay in 6" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Watching the thread with baited breath. Keen to see what you pull out for BA with 8th ed :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Keen to hear some high comp suggestions from you guys!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I enjoyed reading your last veterans thread already so I'm looking forward to this one as well. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Thoughts on this: Captain Smashypants Chaplain - JP Lieutenant - JP, Hammer 10 Intercessors - Grenade, Swd 10 Intercessors - Grenade, Swd 10 Intercessors - Grenade, Swd 10 Scouts - HB, Axe 10 Scouts - HB, Axe 10 Tactical - Claw, Cmbi-Plas, Grav-cannon Company Ancient - SwordSanguinary Ancient - Banner10 Van Vets - 4 shields, Hammer, Sword, JP Scorpios 10 Assault Marines - Hammer, MeltaGun6 Inceptors - Bolters 10 Devastators - HB, ML, 2GravCannon, Cherub 7 Hellblasters Drop Pod Rhino (ADT) - Tac Squad. Comp is 39/40 Has 106 Bodies on the board with around 150 wounds with Feel No Pain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 How much playtesting will you get to do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 Very very little. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I like it in terms of comp, it feels a nice mix of new and old. I'd love to see one BA choppy unit in it or maybe some Forge World? I like the idea of maxing out the squads for bodies to limit casualties and keep the big guns functioning as long as possible. Who is the Pod for? Also you've got no Psychic support, a Librarian over Lieutenant may be worth it purely for Denials? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 Pod would be for the Grav Devs! BA choppy unit has to be either the ASM or the VVs - reason being the DC net me too big a ding. I lose 5 points for not having any elites at full strength since theyre a squad size of 15 :( Otherwise id have them in a flash! i thought about the Libby too,btw! Thing is, he's so pricey comparatively :( Like a jump libby is somethign silly like 25 points less than Mephy : :( I was thinking about Libby Dread instead of Chaplain + Liuet (or Chaplain + Priest) - but wondering if im gaining enough for what I lose. Seemed the two characters gave me more overall utility than the lib :( I may just have to take the psychic hit? Or do you think i'll suffer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I really wouldn't feel comfortable without any psychic defense. An opponent getting off a Warptime or not can be game deciding for example. I haven't used any Chaplain or Lieutenant so far but the Librarian Dread always did good work in my lists. Just give him the Wings of Blood power and either the 5++ one or one of the offensive buffs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 Would give wings and +1 attack, if I played him. The Chaplain becomes a force multiplier for the DC/Vanvets/ASM. ASM are pants. They hit as hard as Intercessors and less hard than Reivers - the only beenfit is their mobility and BA shenanigans. The Chappy (and Priest combo) help mitigate that hugely. I'll see what i can wangle! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I think unless you are loading them with specials (something only BA can do!) ASM are just really lackluster. Might be worth evaluating how much it's worth investing more into a "bad" unit to make them good rather than just taking something else? Some Reivers for example could be nice - they get in close like the scouts and stopping overwatch is a tasty trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Some Reivers for example could be nice - they get in close like the scouts I wish. They just have ordinary deep strike or bad deep strike aka outflanking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 The bad deepstrike/outflanking option (grapnels i believe) does also let them ignore vertical movement, which can be nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 It can be nice, yeah. Mostly if you buy both and deep strike them regularly or if you play on boards with extremely dense terrain tho. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348601-the-road-to-veterans-2018/#findComment-5116956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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