ShibeKing Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I like both, but the bolt pistol combat knife combo stick out to me. Their loadout reminds me of my time playing MW2 and running around with USP45 w/ Tac Knife and Commando. The hate mail I would get sent on Xbox Live. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 While I agree with Orange that things should absolutely be tested, I'm not sure reivers will make the grade. I tried cramming that square peg into the round hole of usefulness with my codex marines for some time. SIA breaths new life into everything, for sure. But since Intercessors also get it, I'm doubting that Reivers will see much more than novelty play...even in kill teams. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 Deathwatch kill teams aren’t cheap so I’m sure it will require some careful thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Grapnel is a useful thing you measure distances Base to Base so any enemy up in ruins is closer than 9" for charging but not for deployment. They are a cheap nuisance unit and your getting 16 attacks for 5 guys also they -1 to leadership and have a nerf grenade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 The nerf grenade can be a game changer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trokair Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 As I am planning on having my Deathwatch be all Primaris (aside from some HQs, which will be converted) I have been thinking about using a full Reiver Squad, just haven’t decided if carbine of knife. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 As I am planning on having my Deathwatch be all Primaris (aside from some HQs, which will be converted) I have been thinking about using a full Reiver Squad, just haven’t decided if carbine of knife. I've locked myself out of using real Reivers on account of using those models as Veterans for right now lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 One thing cool about Reivers is if you don’t model them with power packs they make great scouts so there is that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 One thing cool about Reivers is if you don’t model them with power packs they make great scouts so there is that. A pity we can't run scouts :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 One thing cool about Reivers is if you don’t model them with power packs they make great scouts so there is that. A pity we can't run scouts :( Only the best from each chapter can access the Deathwatch.....scouts are not even fully developed astartes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 One thing cool about Reivers is if you don’t model them with power packs they make great scouts so there is that.A pity we can't run scouts :(Only the best from each chapter can access the Deathwatch.....scouts are not even fully developed astartesCertainly true, but this is an example of fluff ruining the crunch. A force as flexible as the Deathwatch is naturally aware of the tactical benefits of infiltrators and uses them where necessary. Sadly, the crunch doesn't live up to that with Deathwatch unable to access any type of infiltrator unit. Granted, there are a few other more important misses on that front across both the Astartes and Deathwatch unit lists, and I feel Reivers are one of them - even with SIA, they don't provide enough unique reliable buffs for their cost. I've always compared them to Intercessors in my codex astartes lists, where I've never had success with them over other, more efficient options. They simply don't live up to their wonderful fluff. But, disclaimer time - I run in a competitive meta where decisions like this during list building can have a big impact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Well I run in a fairly competitive area too but I do appreciate giving these units a whirl. I don't profess to have figured out every angle, so where I personally agree that they missed the mark a bit with Reivers, I'm more than happy to encourage others to try such units. I know I had a very, very good run at my last ITC tournament with Deathguard. The reason I'm mentioning this is most people who saw my list said... how the heck did you do so well with that list? And it's because I experimented with substandard load outs that sometimes... just every once in a while you find a very good way to combine something that on its own just looks plain bad on paper. Actually I think that's one of my favorite things to do in 40K at this stage in my playing 'career'... finding diamonds in the rough and pushing the envelop with such units. In a way I think that's also why I really like this version of Deathwatch..... Primaris are generally accepted as 'bad', and Deathwatch can actually get good mileage out of them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 Exactly - it never hurts to try. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5119971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Exactly - it never hurts to try. Indeed. All I'm saying is that I've tried them and they've never been worth the points - always wished I had a veteran squad instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5120002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 I played a game today and forgot to bring my power tool case - only had my Shield-Captain on Dawneagle for Custodes and two Wardens so I ran them all as Captains for a Supreme Command detachment and had to use a lot of Ultramarine units I built for a friendly escalation league. I ran two melee Reiver squads and wow they did some work. They are better than scouts but are basically double the points and not obsec which is their downfall. I don’t think they are are a stellar unit for Deathwatch but they are better than I thought. Deep Strike for free is really good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5120194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Yeah, I have no idea why rifle Reivers are so overcosted. GW is still pushing assault tax? It's literally slightly better bolter, costing as much as a storm bolter. I really like rifle look but have 5 Reivers sitting unbuilt because it looks like pistols might be the way to go, albeit with a lot of downsides Only the best from each chapter can access the Deathwatch.....scouts are not even fully developed astartes Tell that to Cyrus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashc Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I'm tempted to just buy the easy to build 3 and leave it at that - I'm just not convinced on them as a standalone squad, even though I want to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 I used two squads of Reivers in a recent game with my Ultramarines and I was surprised how well they did. Inherently being able to deepstrike is really good plus they stuck around for awhile due to two wounds each and the armor save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I used two squads of Reivers in a recent game with my Ultramarines and I was surprised how well they did. Inherently being able to deepstrike is really good plus they stuck around for awhile due to two wounds each and the armor save. I used to use them with my Blood Ravens (who played with Ultra tactics) way back, and I always had the exact opposite experience. I've never at any time treated their 2 wounds as valuable because they often end up in rapid fire plasma range by the very nature of deep strike anyway, and that means they died quicker to anti-marine fire due to lack of invuln access. Both the carbine or blade excelled at killing bubble wrap and little else, which is an awkward role to be in since you usually want to punch a hole in the bubble wrap for your deep strikers to jump in and make their points back killing dangerous things. They worked admirably for me with Blood Ravens as a unit that could eat up a charge for my accompanying Inceptors, but I soon found that just spending those points on more Inceptors was better. As a unit that could rapidly respond and drop to contest an objective, they were alright, but I always ended up just wishing I had Inceptors there instead as well, who had greater mobility, were tougher, and could truly clear an objective with a greater source of higher str, ap -1 dakka. All told, Reivers were a decent choice for codex marines, though, and your experience with them goes to show that's true. But one thing I have learned very quickly with Deathwatch is that my experiences with certain units on the codex astartes side does not predict success for them on the Deathwatch side. The reason that is is because while Codex Reivers are good options compared to the choices you have within that Codex, Deathwatch Reivers compete against a whole new list of internal options - and they fall short more often than not. Obsec is king for DW, largely because you lack the cheaper troops choices of codex marines. Also, since every single infantry or dreadnought unit can inherently deep strike for DW as well, units being able to do it baseline is not nearly as valuable. I feel it's far better to spend the 105 to 125 points to help unlock and improve the resiliency of your battalions than to spend them on an elite choice that can DS in for a handful of bolter shots and a grenade it can't even use the moment it lands. Mixing them into kill teams can find success, but time, experience, and data suggests they are not in any way an efficient choice on their own. Their job is just done better elsewhere. But as usual, play your dudes. The weakest units in the DW codex can still be fun and effective thanks to solid baseline rules. I just wouldn't put them up there as an efficient choice given their cost and a lack of synergy with their own abilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 They were game winners for me that game. I’m not planning to play pure DW so the need for OS is not a big deal for me tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 They were game winners for me that game. I’m not planning to play pure DW so the need for OS is not a big deal for me tbh. Sounds good. You'll still find more success from storm shield and storm bolter vets if you get a chance to try em out. What are you intending to use from DW if you don't mind me asking? If just Reivers, then they'll be even better than what you used, though they won't be able to fall back and shoot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Lol using DW just for Reivers that’s an insult if ever I heard one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Yeah, I have no idea why rifle Reivers are so overcosted. GW is still pushing assault tax? It's literally slightly better bolter, costing as much as a storm bolter. I really like rifle look but have 5 Reivers sitting unbuilt because it looks like pistols might be the way to go, albeit with a lot of downsides Only the best from each chapter can access the Deathwatch.....scouts are not even fully developed astartes Tell that to Cyrus And all of the wolf scouts. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if other chapters that dont follow codex put more competent, experienced specialist marines in the scout role. Putting newbs as your scouts is completely moronic from a military standpoint, and only a logistics specialist like Row-Booty Gillman would think thats where you put your inexperienced people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5124986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Let's keep the discussion to playing Reivers in DW. There are other places in the B&C to talk lore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5125553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 I have decided not to use Reivers. Here’s what I am planning to run for my Primaris killteams : Sergeant Intercessor - Power Sword 4x Intercessor - Aux Grenade Launcher 2x Plasma Inceptor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348665-pure-reiver-squads/page/2/#findComment-5126589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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