Another This or That: Ven. Dread vs Terminator Squad?

[BloodWolves]

Which would be better or more flexible in a 2000pt list to help round off points?

 

Ven. Dread w/ AC and CCW

Or

Terminator Squad w/ Power Fists, SB and 1 AC

[Tokugawa]

In short words, None.

 

Assault cannon on dreds is not twin-linked and only fire 6 shots per turn. Which is not worthy for a 100+pts BS2+ platform.

 

Termies...people said that they living at the bottom end of the 8th food chain.

[HighMarshalAmp]

For about 200 points?

A Storm Shield Captain and a Lieutenant, both with Jump Packs.

 

I added up the prospective wounds a Dreadnought deals vs MEQs only yesterday, and while it's a durable unit, it doesn't really make those points back easily.

 

Now Terminators aren't as criminally overcosted once you factor in their two wounds, but they lack in wargear options.

So for the points of 5 Terminators (10 wounds, 5 Storm Bolters), you might as well take 10 Company Veterans (10 wounds, 10 Storm Bolters) - they can take fancier wargear as well.

Deep Striking them will be tricky, but if you don't have enough transport options to ferry around 10 more models, then you should get another transport first anyway.

[Ishagu]

Neither of those. A Tri Las Cannon Predator is better, or another squad of Hellblasters, or a Sicaran tank from Forgeworld

[Tokugawa]

Neither of those. A Tri Las Cannon Predator is better, or another squad of Hellblasters, or a Sicaran tank from Forgeworld

If considering FW index units, then a ven-dread would also be okay, with these "Real" shooting weapon options.

[Captain Idaho]

Using Codex Space Marines a Venerable Dreadnought is actually okay. It advances to use its Power Fist and the Shooting is a bonus.

 

Ignore the naysayers.

 

Now, both Terminators and Dreadnoughts need a little hand in the game, Marine Codex in particular but a Venerable Dreadnought in an army with vehicles is okay. Target saturation.

[CCE1981]

I have fallen in love with Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts.  The Contemptor is in the Codex, all the Mortis pattern does is slightly increase the pts to move it into the Heavy Support slot.  As any platform you want it fills the role really well.  With the amount of firepower that is shot at it to take it off the table I have rarely seen the damage table come into affect.  Comparing three of them to three Predators and the Dreadnoughts slightly win out on damage with re-roll 1s to hit, if the Predators use the Strategem the Predators win out, but then you are spending Command Points to do it.  

[autek mor]

if you must go with one i would say the terminators. reason being that the ten terminators are harder to kill in many cases and there are better dreadnought alternatives in forgeworld index. that aside, there are better value units than both those choices in the 200 point region and if you are prepared to spend that much, then why not drop a 100 more and get a leviathan dread?

[Dracos]

Only using the criteria mentioned in the OP (not everyone has or wants to spend on the resources of FW) I agree with the Captain ... assuming you’re contemplating including the LRC and twin LasBacks. Dreadnought solid choice for backfield or flank coverages and can grab Objectives which are usually in cover. Nice thing about the Dread is it’s smaller footprint (so, bonuses from being in Cover more likely) to that redonkulous Redemptor.

 

That said, I love the Contemptor myself ;) Mortis especially but regular load out also. :)

[Tokugawa]

Only using the criteria mentioned in the OP (not everyone has or wants to spend on the resources of FW) I agree with the Captain ... assuming you’re contemplating including the LRC and twin LasBacks. Dreadnought solid choice for backfield or flank coverages and can grab Objectives which are usually in cover. Nice thing about the Dread is it’s smaller footprint (so, bonuses from being in Cover more likely) to that redonkulous Redemptor.

 

That said, I love the Contemptor myself ;) Mortis especially but regular load out also. :)

Contemptor has a GW kit, the FW variants could proxy/convert from it.

[Captain Idaho]

Contemptors are amazing sauce too.

[Dracos]

Still, all said ... if they had a “True scale” Venerable Dreadnought, I'd probably buy three of them for my Primaris Marines (I’m not a purist obviously) I love its classic design (my dread-love dates back to 2nd edition) and the performance for points works for me. :)

[Basteala]

I mean if you're going with a Dread...just go Mortis pattern and actually get your point's worth. It still may not be super comp, but a dual Autocannon Dread spits out 8 S7, -1, 2 damage shots Or you could be that guy and rock dual twin lascannons. That's a thing in the Forgeworld index.

 

If you want big, expensive infantry...Inceptors > Terminators. Inceptors are twice as fast, shooty have the fly keyword, they're T5, have the same abount of wounds and can deep strike as well. Termies are slow, punchy, your 2+ save almost never matters and you're T4, which means you're making more small arms saves anyway.

 

Not to mentioned Overcharged plasma wounds Termies on 2s.

[Captain Idaho]

Inceptors are the main exception to my opinion that Primaris need a competitive leg up. Inceptors are very good I feel just right.

[Dracos]

Inceptors are the main exception to my opinion that Primaris need a competitive leg up. Inceptors are very good I feel just right.

I'd add Aggressors and Hellblasters to that list. Its the exponential jump in point cost for Primaris units that makes them so tough to play as an omni-build IMO.  Not so hot on all the units new and old that are causing 2W either. It's making the supposed value of the point increase, increasing less effective it seems.

[Captain Idaho]

Aggressors are rubbish in my view. Few in number and paying for those power fists on a slow platform that is fairly easy to kill. Without a cost effective transport.

[Tokugawa]

Aggressors are rubbish in my view. Few in number and paying for those power fists on a slow platform that is fairly easy to kill. Without a cost effective transport.

Aggressors have got some (limited) success in big events, under the flag of Raven Guard.

 

With the "infiltrate" strategem, they could get closer to objectives, and wipe enemy scout units.

 

For Chapters other than RG, I agree that they are garbage.

[Dracos]

I can’t argue that if it weren’t for playing Raven Guard rules id likely have a different view of Aggressors. Just another example of Primaris needing a dedicated transport that doesn’t pretend to be a flying Land Raider.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, Primaris need a drop pod imo, but an actual good one.

 

You can cost it at 100 points if it has utility beyond the turn it arrives. Maybe their pods are armed with 4 Onslaught gatling cannons that can target enemies after the Marines inside have disembarked. Something like that would be pretty cool.

[Captain Idaho]

Totally agree. At the very least Primaris should be able to use Drop Pods alongside their compatriots, with said vehicle needing a big discount. Any more than 40pts is a rip off.

[Race Bannon]

Are we still talking about Ven Dreads vs Terminators?