Dealing with Knights

[Karhedron]

Big Bots are appearing on the battlefields of the 41st millenium in unprecedented numbers. With this in mind, I thought it might be worth looking at our options for dealing with them. I am specifically excluding options such as the allied Shadowsword or Knights of our own to focus on what we can do with a pure BA list.

 

Firepower

 

Given their punch in melee, shooting at Knights is a tempting possibility but tends to be hampered by Ion Shields. For 1 CP, Knight players can boost their Invulnerable saves against shooting by +1 for a turn so expect that to turn up a lot if you start aiming lascannons or plasma their way. If your opponent has multiple Knights, it might be worth trying to line up a secondary target since "Rotate Ion Shields" is a stratagem and only useful once per turn.

 

The odds are not great. A Dev squad with Lascannons will only get 1 shot through per turn on average. Even with multiple squads, doing D6 wounds per squad shooting is definitely the hard way to bring a Knight down. Plasma also faces challenges as a Knight's T8 means you will ahve to overcharge (with the attendant risks), just to wound on a 4+. A 10-man Hellblaster squad will put 8-10 wounds on a Knight on average if they are in Rapid Fire range. Just beware the retaliation as Knights have lots of weapons that kill 2W Marines very efficiently.

 

Plasma Inceptors are another decent option. A 6-man squad overcharging will do 10-12 wounds on average. These scores go up slightly if you have a Captain nearby to contain overheats.

 

Heavy Bolters with Hellfire shells are worthwhile too as even D3 Mortal Wounds will help.

 

Melee

 

Things look a bit more favourable here. Knights are big targets with no Invulnerable save in melee (apart from one Relic). Captain Smash can do a lot of good work here and is capable of putting out over 12 wounds on a Knight on average with Red Rampage. Fighting a second time with HOTC or OIDDDE means he can fairly reliably drop a Knight in a single round of combat. Given the chance, exchanging a 129 point model for a 500+ point model, this is usually a good move. He is particularly good against the Valiant with its massive flamer to negate overwatch.

 

Mephiston or a Libby Dread can also put in solid performances here.

 

Moving on to squads, both Death Company (with a few Hammers) and Sanguinary Guard (fists for preference) will also be able to put a lot of hurt on Knights. Obviously they work best with Lemartes/Warlord in support for rerolls and ideally, a Sanguinary Priest for +1S. This means that anyone without a Hammer/Fist will be wounding a 4+ while the big weapons will be wounding a 2+. This will really help to bring a Knight down quickly. 

 

To give an idea of some numbers, 10DC with 3 hammers, led by Lemartes will cost less than a Knight but will put an average of 12 wounds on a Knight from the Hammers and a couple more from their basic attacks and 3 from Lemartes. That means the DC on the charge can easily bring down a Knight that has been softened up with a bit of shooting first.

 

Overall I think Blood Angels are in a good place to take on Knights and we are probably better equipped for it than most pure Marine armies.

 

Anyone spot any other gems that would be particularly effective against Knights?

[Majkhel]

I think that dreads might be tempting, despite the potential easiness with which Knights deal with big targets.
A Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought (that's the name, right?) would be able to advance behind a screen unless targeted with those not-so-funny missiles. Still, he does not degrade due to being only 9-wound model. 2+ to hit and strength 12 in combat, re-rolling 1s if having 2 DCWs. Only 4 attacks base though. And lets not forget his 5++ and 6+++. Lest's not forget the smoke launchers as well for that little bit of extra protection.

A contemptor is not as survivable. But can perhaps benefit from a lagging JP techmarine for recovering crucial wounds.

Another thing - Scout Bikes - they can potentially tri-lock a knight in combat as they are not INFANTRY. They benefit from the Red Thirst, Sergeant can take TH. They need numbers of course.

[Karhedron]

Another thing - Scout Bikes - they can potentially tri-lock a knight in combat as they are not INFANTRY. They benefit from the Red Thirst, Sergeant can take TH. They need numbers of course.

Of course you need at least 3 models surviving a round of combat with a Knight to maintain the lock so would probably need to charge alongside something more menacing to force the Knight player to either target the blood-crazed Captain trying to take out his knee-caps with a Thunder Hammer or the sneaky biker scouts trying to pin him in place.

 

It is sneaky and I like it!

[Diagramdude]

The Libby Dread, if you get Quickening off and Unleash Rage from a nearby friend, can solo a basic Questoris knight from 24 to zero. 

 

The Libby Dread needs to connect eight wounds, at AP -4 and flat 3, to solo kill it.

 

With hitting and wounding on 2's and rerolling 1's to hit with Wisdom of the Ancients, nine attacks should do it. This is doable with 3+2D3 from Quickening and Red Rampage, plus another 1 if you get unleash rage. If you get to 8 or 9 attacks with some luck and CP rerolling the wound rolls of 1 you can put in 24+ wounds.

 

Alternatively if you don't get enough attacks to finish it off, you can swing in 12 to 15 wounds, hopefully get squashed in return, and then finish it off with Only in Death.

 

The Libby Dread is so so solid against Knights, and T8+ vehicles in general that lack invulns.

[Ming]

I played vs a 3-Chaos Knight list 8 days ago and was eventually tabled. I had not played in a while and made many mistakes, the key three being deploying too far forward (so I was hit turn 1 with their key weapons), moving too close (so I was charged), and running short on CPs (so Captain Slamguinius could not strike again).  I did take out a knight, but it was the Sanguinary ancient who pulled it off after everything else whiffed that turn.  Overall, my basic list can take out a single Knight and damage more, but three is doom....

[Spyros]

I guess if you are facing multiple Knights there is no such thing as overkill. So a Relic Falchion could be a bearer of very very bad news for them...

[Indefragable]

Multiple DC Captains w/ Sanguinor.....