Ceranidian Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 So I just played my first game of 40k and got absolutely destroyed (which is to be experted I guess). It was 750pts of my DW versus Raven Guard. I had: 5 man KT, 1 frag cannon and bolters/shotguns 3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad from the above) 5 man KT with 2 missile launchers + stalkers Jump Captain with TH+SB Librarian Laserback He had: Primaris Librarian Redemptor VenDread 2 Squads of Reivers (deep striking) 5 man TacSquad with plasma Now I don't really mind losing (especially at the start) and made some obvious tactical mistakes, but I am looking to improve so I can put up more of a fight tomorrow when I face another opponent at 1000pts. My plan was to remove the Librarian and add a Watchmaster and VenDread, but I'm considering just finding ways to get more bodies in the list. Any pointers to keep in mind when playing? Remembering Mission Tactics is one thing I realized about halfway through. I know my opponent is bringing Catachans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Watchmaster is auto mandatory - check. 5 man KT, 1 frag cannon and bolters/shotguns Did you deep strike this squad? 3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad from the above) I would lose this squad. 5 man KT with 2 missile launchers + stalkers Get a shooty Mortis dread to replace this unit. Jump Captain with TH+SB I would keep the Captain. Laserback Assback is better choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Thanks for the advice! My setup was Librarian and FC team in the Razorback and Captain running with the Bikers. My idea was the Bikes could put out some decent dakka, but they got out of position and mowed down by the Redemptor pretty quick. I think maybe they might fare better against Astra Militarum where their twin boltguns could clear some bodies out? I'm thinking of trying a bigger KT in a Rhino instead of the Razorback. Either that or bringing a Corvus (although it seems like a quite hefty points investment). Looking over the models I have I've got the following two lists in mindLIST 1 Watchmaster Jump Captain 8 man KT with 2 FC, bolters, and shotguns (basically the models I got) Rhino VenDread 5 man KT, stalkers + ML (don't own a Mortis to replace them) 3 Bikers + 2 VV LIST 2 Watchmaster Jump Captain 7 man KT with 2 FC, bolters, and shotguns Corvus Blackstar VenDread 5 man KT, stalkers + ML -OR- 3 Bikers (and add another vet somewhere) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I like the second list better (without bikers). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Would you run both Captain and Watchmaster in the Corvus then? The overlapping auras would seem like a bit of a waste but maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Would you run both Captain and Watchmaster in the Corvus then? The overlapping auras would seem like a bit of a waste but maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way. I use my TH jump captains to deep strike and hunt big targets, usually alongside a vet squad and jump librarian. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 I do have a squad of 5 Vanguard Vets (working on getting more normal vets ready for the tabletop!) I could deep strike in with the Captain. Seems a bit risky though since I'm essentially gambling on making at least one 9" charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I do have a squad of 5 Vanguard Vets (working on getting more normal vets ready for the tabletop!) I could deep strike in with the Captain. Seems a bit risky though since I'm essentially gambling on making at least one 9" charge. It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha Yeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon! For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! EDIT: Spelling is hard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them haha Yeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon! For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! I think that's a toss up. The Corvus probably has a better chance of getting the bodies where they need to be and brings much more firepower. If you feel you have enough of a distraction that the rhino should survive until delivery, then go with more bodies. Probably isn't very helpful, lol sorry But put my vote on list 2 without the bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them hahaYeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon! For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! I think that's a toss up. The Corvus probably has a better chance of getting the bodies where they need to be and brings much more firepower. If you feel you have enough of a distraction that the rhino should survive until delivery, then go with more bodies. Probably isn't very helpful, lol sorry But put my vote on list 2 without the bikes. Thanks for the input! Both you and Black Orange liked that list better, so I think I'll go with that. Will be exciting to try out the Corvus for the first time! On a related note; are bikers considered not very good? That would be a shame because I got 6 of them. I thought of them as essentially more expensive SB vets with 2 wounds, T5 and more mobility. But maybe the price increase per model is too steep (SB Vet = 20 points, biker = 29 points)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabulousRex Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Bikers are indeed good, but they're hard to use well, and they really gain more from getting a Sergeant in the FA slot. 6 bikes is good weight of fire, but they need to skirt the edges of the fight turn 1,unless you have ALOT of them. Also, you can screen bikes with a Rhino or Razorback to good effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Remember to take the upgrade for the Corvus so it rerolls 1s to hit... really worth it imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 It's usually something I do alongside a storm bolter vet squad since their ridiculous weight of fire in double tap range is what I'm dropping them from deep strike for. I hit the captain with veil of time for the charge to hopefully boost him closer, but honestly the main reason I deep strike him is because he'd otherwise take up 2 spots in a Corvus that would be better filled with more storm bolters in my eyes. Too bad he can't just dual wield them hahaYeah, I can see how that would be good. Working on getting my hands on some SB Vets so hopefully I'll be able to try it out soon! For tonight's game I'm still undecided between more bodies and a Rhino or fewer guys and a Corvus. I'm leaning towards more bodies (since my firepower just becoming non-existant after a few casualties seemed to be a cause of trouble last game) but any input is of course appreciated. Quickly though, I'm leaving in about an hour! I think that's a toss up. The Corvus probably has a better chance of getting the bodies where they need to be and brings much more firepower. If you feel you have enough of a distraction that the rhino should survive until delivery, then go with more bodies. Probably isn't very helpful, lol sorry But put my vote on list 2 without the bikes. Thanks for the input! Both you and Black Orange liked that list better, so I think I'll go with that. Will be exciting to try out the Corvus for the first time! On a related note; are bikers considered not very good? That would be a shame because I got 6 of them. I thought of them as essentially more expensive SB vets with 2 wounds, T5 and more mobility. But maybe the price increase per model is too steep (SB Vet = 20 points, biker = 29 points)? The bikes are good, in enough numbers. I'm just concerned you wouldn't have that, though I can't speak from experience here. Feel free to give em a shot, though! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 I see, so Bikes are essentially more of a supporting unit? Makes sense leaving them at home then and using them more in larger point games where I can fit in other units as the main force. On my way to the game now, Corvus and the rest in bag. Will let you know how it goes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Good luck and may your Watchmaster roll hot ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter. Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP.Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter. Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP. Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal. Unfortunately I think its just 1d3 mortal wounds with the hellfire shells, since you make just a single hit roll.......3d3 would be really nice though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter. Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP. Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal. Unfortunately I think its just 1d3 mortal wounds with the hellfire shells, since you make just a single hit roll.......3d3 would be really nice though Fire tempest shells for another d3, and use the flakk missile for yet another d3 on top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 If you do run the stalker team, switch one of the ML for a heavy bolter. Use it to throw d3 mortals at people for a CP. Its fun blowing up skimmers with 3d3 ranged mortal wounds, then charging with a watchmaster w/ superclavis for another 2d3 mortal. Unfortunately I think its just 1d3 mortal wounds with the hellfire shells, since you make just a single hit roll.......3d3 would be really nice though Fire tempest shells for another d3, and use the flakk missile for yet another d3 on top. Oh yess of course then :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 So I got tabled again. Good news is it took longer and I took quite a few of them down with me! The Corvus did good work and ripped up Infantry Squads left and right and the big killteam cleared out the stragglers easily. Then a Leman Russ with full plasma rolled around the corner and my marines went "Poof". Literally got wiped out in one volley, ouch. I actually did put a HB in the Stalker squad last second and used the Hellfire Shells to take down a Chimeara Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 What was your opponent's list ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Catachans 4 Infantry Squads, 2 of them with mortars 2 Chimeras with heavy flamers, each containing - Company commander - Command squad with 2 plasma 2 melta - Special weapons squad with three flamers Leman Russ Tank Commander with full plasma I think that was it. Defenitely learned to fear plasma, even the command squads did work with rerolls from orders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Your list is going to have some issues with armor like a Leman Russ. What gun is your dread rocking ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranidian Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Lascannon and fist. Would switch to a Missile Launcher arm if I had one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348717-looking-for-advice-after-first-game/#findComment-5118981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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