Looking for advice after first game

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am running a Captain with a jump pack and combi-melta in my current Ultramarines detachment... guard players really don't like him. :D

[vigitant]

Lascannon and fist. Would switch to a Missile Launcher arm if I had one.

 

I don't know.  When ive ran fist/las vendreads ive found the counterpunch will save my ass against some lists, and the missile launcher never seems to justify itself.  I usually take the missile launcher to reduce the cost of the dread, but i wish the fist was cheaper.  Course, my pre codex list was 3 las chaplain vendreads.  I've a weakness for big stompy dreadnaughts.

[Lemondish]

I am running a Captain with a jump pack and combi-melta in my current Ultramarines detachment... guard players really don't like him. :D

I haven't used melta much before largely due to the delivery options being so sparse. DW seems to solve that issue, but I haven't had the chance to try it out yet. I've been toying with some combi-melta squads in a few asscan Razorbacks, but didn't know if melta would be worth using. How has your experience with it been?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I see the need for some melta now with the impact Knights have brought to the meta. It needs to be mobile too. The Captain makes Knight players hesitant about rushing right in.

[Ceranidian]

 

Lascannon and fist. Would switch to a Missile Launcher arm if I had one.

 

I don't know.  When ive ran fist/las vendreads ive found the counterpunch will save my ass against some lists, and the missile launcher never seems to justify itself.  I usually take the missile launcher to reduce the cost of the dread, but i wish the fist was cheaper.  Course, my pre codex list was 3 las chaplain vendreads.  I've a weakness for big stompy dreadnaughts.

 

 

Interesting. I do see how it could be good to have the fist against lists that will try to get in your face. I got a missile launcher arm on the way so I'll be able to try out both in time!

[Drizzt79]

I see the need for some melta now with the impact Knights have brought to the meta. It needs to be mobile too. The Captain makes Knight players hesitant about rushing right in.

A JP captain with combimelta and thuderhammer + a termie captain combimelta and thunderhammer

 

Each deepstriking with killteams....rerolling ones and giving the extra AT punch

 

The watchmaster stays in the back with the stalker, missile, ihb team to grant mortal wounds + one or two vendreads

 

That shoukd be a good base against many opponents......knights included

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For sure that’s a strong combination!

[Ceranidian]

So I've got another game lined up on Thursday, this time against Orks. Time to purge some xenos! I've heard they are not the strongest of armies, so maybe I can grab my first victory if I play it well. Any suggestions to keep in mind when playing against the greenskins?

[Lemondish]

So I've got another game lined up on Thursday, this time against Orks. Time to purge some xenos! I've heard they are not the strongest of armies, so maybe I can grab my first victory if I play it well. Any suggestions to keep in mind when playing against the greenskins?

 

Frag cannons and shotguns are amazing against them usually, and don't forget about Stem the Green Tide! Do you have any clue what your opponent will be running? If they bring a lot of boyz, you'll need to be very wary of how you move about the field. They may try and box you into your deployment zone and keep you off the objectives. Orks tend to have enough bodies to make it so you can't really contest them until you punch through a bunch of greenskins. The bikers you were considering may be of value here, if only because of the extra dakka and mobility they bring and the ability to hit and run a bit. You're probably going to feel like you need to make a big impact on his force early on to maximize your offensive punch before you start losing guys. Don't get too eager to deal that heavy blow early on that you end up in a bad spot, though. 

 

On the Corvus, I usually swear by the halo launcher due to the extra protection against a lot of the xenos armies I face relying heavily on Fly (Eldar, Tau, Drukhari), but for Orks it might be best to grab the auspex for reroll ones to hit instead. Depending on what they bring, the Ven dread might have trouble finding targets for those las cannons so don't be afraid to charge him forward and mix it up with the fist as a distraction. Don't be too hung up thinking that just because it's a lot of points you need to keep it alive longer in the back to maximize the investment - if there's no good targets for the las cannons, him being alive does very little to help you win. Rapid fire storm bolter and punching things for a turn or two will be more reliable than 3 turns of zapping some boyz. Now, if there are some juicy armoured targets to hit, play accordingly. 

[spacewatch]

I play a lot against the Orcs and I can concur everything Lemondish have said about them. Here's some ideas what I do/think when facing Orcs.

- Orcs are not good at shooting but beware of big 20+ Orc blobs (Orcs rely on numbers). As a rule of thumb 30 Boyz will shoot 3-4 Marines per turn, 20 shoot 2-3 Marines and 10 shoot 1-2. Two five man Vet squads easily win shoting game against 30 Boyz especially if they take total of 2-3 Frag Cannons and 5-6 Storm Bolters. Take Frag Cannons and Vanguard Vet so you can shoot again. Shotguns are good and comparable to regular Bolters. Take them too because of better overwatch and ability to shoot one-shot-one-kill D2 damage against Nobz. So make big blobs small and they are no threat. Still, not let them melee you since Boyz using Choppa is comparable to Marine using Chainsword.

- Burnaboyz and Tankbustas are just special Boyz, just gun them down. Remember though that Burna autohits and Tankbustas have Squig bombs and Rokkit Launchers which both are very strong.

- Couple of Nobz are not a threat, just gun them down using SB/Boltguns/Shotguns. More than five Nobz are threat especially when kitted with Power Claws or when on Warbikes.

- Meganobz are Nobz but in Mega armour (~terminator armour) so 2+ save and +1W and very often kitted with Killsaws and Power Claws. They eat Marines for breakfast and shred Rhinos just for fun. I allocate entire Plasmagun squad inside Rhino to target against Meganobz. Remember also that Melta, Missile Launcher and even Lascannon shots are shots well spent when targeted against them.

- Lootas are Orc long range shooters. They have S7AP-1D2 guns so get rid of them early or they will ruin your plans for midfield/midgame. Btw, Lootas alone are reason why I'm sceptical using Primaris. I usually allocate dakkadakka kitted Corvus shooting against them. Vanilla Vet team with just basic Bolters deepstiked to gun down Lootas is unit well spent even if they do not manage to do anything else.

- Big Gunz, Mek Gunz, Killa Kans, see Lootas. Usually my Corvus drops SB or Frag Cannon Kill-Team to hunt these.

- Orcs have strong vehicles/elites best (imo) beeing Battlewagon and Gorganaut/Morganaut. I frequently face this combination (BW+Gorga) and I can say that just one TLC-VenDread is not enough. Take at least TLC-Razorback to support and event then you probably cannot destroy Gorga over the course of the game. Concentrate destroying BW first because it has some nasty guns and can transport rather good FlashGitz shooters. BW can also be open topped meaning Flash Gitz (or whatever is inside) can shoot you but you cannot shoot them. So you have to destroy BW first.

- Contrary to BW Orc Trukk's are easy to destroy. If they take 3-4 Trukks then they will rush to you and drown with melee attacks.

- Orc characters are strong. WarBoss is deadly with or without Bike. Painboy gives 6+ feel no pain buff. Meks heal vehicles and Weirboys smite you.

- Big Mek can take Custom Force Field that gives 5++ bubble. Sometimes I take Vindicare just to gun Bik Mek down.

- If Orcs take 2-3 Weirdboys then you can handle them with just one Librarian but if they take 6+ Weirdboys then their strategy is to Da Jump several blobs of Boyz and fellow psykers in your face. This is why you may like to take two Stalker bolter units or keep one SB or Intercessor unit in midfield ready to shoot them when they jump. This is also why I normally take two psykers, one goes with my spearhead units and other sits near backfield to deny smites.

- I rarely see Orc flyers on table which is good because they are better bombers than our Corvus

- Very often I see Orc Deffkoptas (fast attack "jetbikes") which are T5W4 models with S8AP-2D3 Kopta rokkits. Beware of these, they are nasty. I use Corwid rockets (Corvus) to drop them down and/or Flakk missile strategem.

 

When planning your tactics try to find a way to make their numbers small early and try to kill their movement momentum by destorying fastest and/or strongest transports first and finally have a plan against smites. One more thing: Mob rule means that leadership == number of models in unit. I strongly recommend that you take at least two units of SB's or SB-Frag (see Lemondish SB-Frag unit), dakka Corvus, TLC-VenDread and unit or two units of Bikers to grab objectives. TAC-Razorback with couple of plasma Vets travelling safely inside is good too.

 

Hope this helps. If you know anything about Orc list let us know and we will help.

 

Btw, you can find more ideas/experiences how to battle against Orcs from my army lists since my lists are more or less designed against horde armies (because of my local meta). There are also other very good threads how to fight against horde. I'm also planning to write some kind of analysis/guide after Orc dex drops. I feel Orcs are very good even as an index army and I'm sure dex will make them very strong and interesting opponent. From the net you can find good and fresh example of what it means to fight against them even with supporting Leviathan.

 

EDIT: wording, typos

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Orks are really fast so try to deploy such that they can’t get a turn 1 charge. Weird Boyz can use a psy power that deep strikes a squad of Boyz 9" away from you so be careful. Use the strat that’s anti Ork to decrease their charge range.

 

Might be good to have another transport besides the RZB and Corvus. Dakka them down as much as possible.

[Ceranidian]

Wow guys, that’s a ton of great advice. Thanks a lot! 

 

No clue what my opponent will be running. Forgot to mention it’s only 1000pts so hopefully no Morka/Gorkanauts   

 

I too figured maximum dakka and Frag is what I should be aiming for, although I don’t have too much to chose from. Thinking of bringing the following:

 

Watch Master

Jump Captain, TH+SB

8 Veterans

 - 3 bolters, 1 with SS

 - 2 shotguns

 - 2 frag

 - 1 VV

Corvus with TAC and Stormstrike missiles

3 Bikers

VenDread, TLC and fist

 

Units I could sub in: 

Stalker squad (2x Stalker, 2x ML, 2xHB)

Razorback (TAC or TLC), could also be a Rhino

Librarian

Vanguard Veterans

 

Wish I had some SB vets but I don't yet.

 

I’m wondering if it could be worth subbing out the Jump Captain and/or the VenDread for some more shots/bodies. The stalker squad was pretty solid last game, while the Captain didn't accomplish too much (although I figure fighting orks will be a completely different ballgame compared to IG). 

[vigitant]

Normally I dont much like the Corvus, but at 1k vs orcs, they might not have anything to threat it.  I'd suggest running it as a S6 gun platform.  If they dont have the ranged guns to threat it, dont be afraid to hover it inside the Watchmaster's aura if the opportunity presents itself.

[Lemondish]

Wow guys, that’s a ton of great advice. Thanks a lot! 

 

No clue what my opponent will be running. Forgot to mention it’s only 1000pts so hopefully no Morka/Gorkanauts   

 

I too figured maximum dakka and Frag is what I should be aiming for, although I don’t have too much to chose from. Thinking of bringing the following:

 

Watch Master

Jump Captain, TH+SB

8 Veterans

 - 3 bolters, 1 with SS

 - 2 shotguns

 - 2 frag

 - 1 VV

Corvus with TAC and Stormstrike missiles

3 Bikers

VenDread, TLC and fist

 

Units I could sub in: 

Stalker squad (2x Stalker, 2x ML, 2xHB)

Razorback (TAC or TLC), could also be a Rhino

Librarian

Vanguard Veterans

 

Wish I had some SB vets but I don't yet.

 

I’m wondering if it could be worth subbing out the Jump Captain and/or the VenDread for some more shots/bodies. The stalker squad was pretty solid last game, while the Captain didn't accomplish too much (although I figure fighting orks will be a completely different ballgame compared to IG). 

 

Based on his build, that Captain looks like the DW equivalent of Lord Slamguinius, which kinda runs into that same issue as the Lascan VenDread by possibly being starved of valuable targets to smash. I'd hate to suggest you surrender your only true AT threats to sub in extra dakka until we know what your opponent is running, but it's definitely something to consider (at least for the VenDread). Are you able to replace his arm at all? 

 

Does that Corvus have the option for swapping to the Blackstar missiles or adding the hurricane bolter? No worries if it isn't, just figured more dakka is best dakka. 

 

If you suspect your opponent will be bringing some Weirdboys, you should really drop in that Librarian to help counter them. The TAC Razorback will be amazing against a flood of Orks of course, and just as vigitant suggests above, if your opponent can't really threaten armour (except to bog it down in combat), then two TAC platforms could be powerful.

 

I fear the VV would get easily surrounded and die before making much of an impact, but I don't have much experience with VV in general. If you enjoyed the Stalker squad then I say go for it! The ML looks like a pretty flexible option for taking on armour (if it exists) or throwing out some extra bolter equivalent shots on Orkz from massive range.

 

As an aside (but relevant to the whole discussion) - I totally understand you're limited to what you have in your collection, but I'm finding it hard to figure out a way to gain even a modest amount of additional CP to help out, even at 1000 points. There are so many great DW strats that it breaks my heart you won't be able to use more than 1 or 2 of them in a game

 

Edit: If you can find a way to get your hands on and bring two extra power armoured Veterans, even if they're just carrying boltguns, you would be able to run 3 squads of Vets in any combination of the following...

 

3 Bolter vets (1 with SS, as you mentioned)

2 Shotgun vets

2 Stalker vets

2 ML vets

2 HB vets 

2 FC vets

2 INSERT NEW VETS HERE

 

Out of that collection, I'd suggest one squad with 2 Stalkers, 2 ML, 1 HB to play exactly as you have been with them; one squad with 4 boltguns and 1 HB just for dakka purposes; one squad with 2 shotguns, 2 frag cannons, and the boltgun/SS to be your close in assault weapon specialists. 

 

You go from 3 CP a game to 8. The first 2 squads can fit into your Corvus alongside the captain while the other 5 man group can fit in the Razorback with your Watchmaster. You now have 2 drops in a 1000 point game with a good chance of protecting all your marines from being shot turn 1 (even if it's just Orks doing the shooting). You do give up the Vendread for this, but the availability of two additional uses of the +1 to wound strat plus a hellfire or tempest shell adds to your offensive output quite a lot. 

[Ceranidian]

 

Based on his build, that Captain looks like the DW equivalent of Lord Slamguinius, which kinda runs into that same issue as the Lascan VenDread by possibly being starved of valuable targets to smash. I'd hate to suggest you surrender your only true AT threats to sub in extra dakka until we know what your opponent is running, but it's definitely something to consider (at least for the VenDread). Are you able to replace his arm at all? 

 

Does that Corvus have the option for swapping to the Blackstar missiles or adding the hurricane bolter? No worries if it isn't, just figured more dakka is best dakka. 

 

If you suspect your opponent will be bringing some Weirdboys, you should really drop in that Librarian to help counter them. The TAC Razorback will be amazing against a flood of Orks of course, and just as vigitant suggests above, if your opponent can't really threaten armour (except to bog it down in combat), then two TAC platforms could be powerful.

 

I fear the VV would get easily surrounded and die before making much of an impact, but I don't have much experience with VV in general. If you enjoyed the Stalker squad then I say go for it! The ML looks like a pretty flexible option for taking on armour (if it exists) or throwing out some extra bolter equivalent shots on Orkz from massive range.

 

As an aside (but relevant to the whole discussion) - I totally understand you're limited to what you have in your collection, but I'm finding it hard to figure out a way to gain even a modest amount of additional CP to help out, even at 1000 points. There are so many great DW strats that it breaks my heart you won't be able to use more than 1 or 2 of them in a game

 

 

Yeah, I also feel not having enough CP is sort of holding the army back. Literally no way to get anything other than a patrol with the units I have though (14 vets, darn it ). I guess on the bright side I really need to think about how I spend the few I have, so I'll know my stuff for when I get those ten storm bolter vets ready. Something to look forward to I suppose!

 

VenDread is fully magnetized, so I can throw whichever weapons I want on there (apart from ML left arm). Same with Blackstar, all options open. 

 

One idea is I could gamble a bit on it being a infantry-heavy list and go all out dakka with the missile launchers to clear up any light armour. 

 

Watch Master

8 vets as above

Corvus with TAC and dakka rockets

VenDread with AC

3 Bikers

6 man Stalker squad (2x Stalker, 2x HB, 2x ML)

 

Could also remove a HB guy for some more anti tank with Plasma Cannon on the VenDread and Stormstrikes on the Corvus to balance it out a bit. 

 

 

EDIT: I'll dig around a bit in the basement and see if I have some old marines from Battle of Macragge lying around somewhere.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think your bikers can do work versus Orks but make sure to screen them so your opponent can’t charge them.

[Ceranidian]

Great success! Found 4 whole marines, 3 with bolters and one with a combi melta. Thinking of bringing the following:

 

Watch Master

Librarian

5 Vets. 4x bolter, 1x combi-melta

5 Vets, 2x shotgun, 2x frag,1x bolter+SS

5 Vets, 2x stalker, 1x HB, 2x ML

Dakka Corvus

3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad). Figured I could give them a bit more hit-and-run capabilities by being able to fall back then shoot and charge again. 

 

Everything in Corvus apart from stalker squad and bikes. Total of 3 drops should give me a decent chance at going first. 

 

Now time for some speed-painting!

 

EDIT: Would it be better to spread out the frag cannons and shotguns in the two squads to give both of them decent overwatch capabilities? Something like

5 Vets, 2x bolter, 1x bolter+ss, 1x shotgun, 1x frag

5 Vets, 2x bolter, 1x combi-melta, 1x shotgun, 1x frag

[Lemondish]

Great success! Found 4 whole marines, 3 with bolters and one with a combi melta. Thinking of bringing the following:

 

Watch Master

Librarian

5 Vets. 4x bolter, 1x combi-melta

5 Vets, 2x shotgun, 2x frag,1x bolter+SS

5 Vets, 2x stalker, 1x HB, 2x ML

Dakka Corvus

3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad). Figured I could give them a bit more hit-and-run capabilities by being able to fall back then shoot and charge again.

 

Everything in Corvus apart from stalker squad and bikes. Total of 3 drops should give me a decent chance at going first.

 

Now time for some speed-painting!

 

EDIT: Would it be better to spread out the frag cannons and shotguns in the two squads to give both of them decent overwatch capabilities? Something like

5 Vets, 2x bolter, 1x bolter+ss, 1x shotgun, 1x frag

5 Vets, 2x bolter, 1x combi-melta, 1x shotgun, 1x frag

Good idea, that might be worth a try. Frag is really deadly against Orks in general, so the more the opponent has to split their attention to kill them all the better, I say.

 

Just make sure to watch your positioning when you charge those bikers in, if you do. They can fallback as if they can fly, but they don't move over models when they do because sadly they can't actually fly. Avoid getting surrounded and I think they'll be a great harassment unit with a decent amount of dakka.

 

Alternatively, this is a super fast obsec capable unit that could race around contesting things often. That is pretty useful on its own as well.

 

I'm eager to hear how it goes!

[spacewatch]

Great success! Found 4 whole marines, 3 with bolters and one with a combi melta. Thinking of bringing the following:

 

Watch Master

Librarian

5 Vets. 4x bolter, 1x combi-melta

5 Vets, 2x shotgun, 2x frag,1x bolter+SS

5 Vets, 2x stalker, 1x HB, 2x ML

Dakka Corvus

3 Bikers + 2 VV (combat squad). Figured I could give them a bit more hit-and-run capabilities by being able to fall back then shoot and charge again. 

 

...

 

List looks good overall and should work well if Orcs bring infantry heavy list like you think (gamble) they might bring. There is also enough dakka to destroy (with the help of chapter tactics and doctrines) even couple of light Orc vehicles like Trukks (~Rhino) so no problem.

 

Only thing that worries me a bit is that it's rather easy to get at least one Battlewagon even in 1k Orc list. So you need to have a plan beforehand what you do if you see one on table (you have Librarian, melta, FG's, Tempest Shells and ML). In my local meta BW is typically used as shooter (open topped, has lot of guns and shooty unit inside) or as a transporter (Ard Case and strong melee unit inside). If you find it's shooty then measure very carefully all ranges and be very careful with your positioning since BW and unit inside can have some nasty weapons. Shooty BW probably tries to keep some distance too so it can keep shooting you turn after turn. If it is transport unit then unit inside has orders to shred your most threatening kill-team as fast as possible. Believe me, if you cannot destroy transport then your unit's destiny is sealed. You can counter this by repositioning your units so that they cannot be charged but are able to shoot that melee unit into pieces in your next shooting phase.

 

It will be interesting and fun battle I'm sure of that. Enjoy and happy Xenos hunting!

[Lemondish]

Only thing that worries me a bit is that it's rather easy to get at least one Battlewagon even in 1k Orc list. So you need to have a plan beforehand what you do if you see one on table (you have Librarian, melta, FG's, Tempest Shells and ML). In my local meta BW is typically used as shooter (open topped, has lot of guns and shooty unit inside) or as a transporter (Ard Case and strong melee unit inside). If you find it's shooty then measure very carefully all ranges and be very careful with your positioning since BW and unit inside can have some nasty weapons. Shooty BW probably tries to keep some distance too so it can keep shooting you turn after turn. If it is transport unit then unit inside has orders to shred your most threatening kill-team as fast as possible. Believe me, if you cannot destroy transport then your unit's destiny is sealed. You can counter this by repositioning your units so that they cannot be charged but are able to shoot that melee unit into pieces in your next shooting phase.

 

It will be interesting and fun battle I'm sure of that. Enjoy and happy Xenos hunting!

 

I'm not too familiar with Orks myself, so if you don't mind I'd like to pick your brain here a bit.

 

I get what you're saying regarding the Librarian, melta, frag cannons, missile launchers, tempest shells, hellfire strat, etc. for trying to kill it quick - that all makes sense.

 

But if I'm not mistaken, an open topped transport applies the same limitations on firing to the unit(s) it's carrying. Thus, tying it up in combat silences it if they have to fall back and can't disembark. I imagine hovering the Corvus and charging the shooty BW would silence the transport pretty quickly, but I'm assuming any opponent would then spill the contents out on the board on their turn so as not to waste all their shooting. In your experience, do these shooty BWs normally carry things that can threaten a Corvus if allowed to blast up close? Do the choppy ones have a chance to down it if they charge? 

 

Finally, last question I promise, how large are battlewagons? Any chance the 3 bikers and 2 vv squad can help surround it with the Corvus in order to deny a disembark?

[spacewatch]

 

...

 

It will be interesting and fun battle I'm sure of that. Enjoy and happy Xenos hunting!

 

I'm not too familiar with Orks myself, so if you don't mind I'd like to pick your brain here a bit.

 

My pleasure. I got lot of support here when took my baby steps as a DW&WH40k player just year or so ago. I know Orcs and I follow GT lists but I'm not competitive level Orc expert - even even though 8 out of 10 of my games is against them or AM (small city - small meta).

 

I get what you're saying regarding the Librarian, melta, frag cannons, missile launchers, tempest shells, hellfire strat, etc. for trying to kill it quick - that all makes sense.

 

Yep, those are the tools and I'm not saying they are not enough. All I'm saying is that tools are scattered between units so there must be a plan how to use them against bigger threats because none of those weapons alone stops BW. This is why I always take TLC-Ven Dread against Orcs ...well against everything.  VenDread can if not stop at least slow and with good luck destroy them before they get close and if they do manage to get close then you can just use that DCCW to finish them off.

 

But if I'm not mistaken, an open topped transport applies the same limitations on firing to the unit(s) it's carrying. Thus, tying it up in combat silences it if they have to fall back and can't disembark. I imagine hovering the Corvus and charging the shooty BW would silence the transport pretty quickly, but I'm assuming any opponent would then spill the contents out on the board on their turn so as not to waste all their shooting. In your experience, do these shooty BWs normally carry things that can threaten a Corvus if allowed to blast up close? Do the choppy ones have a chance to down it if they charge? 

 

You are right about open topped rule. Whatever happens to the BW applies unit inside too. So cannot shoot if charged, except pistols. If there's just Boyz inside with Sluggas then it's just x20 shots comparable to boltgun - so no threat to Corvus. But instead of Boyz they can take Tankbustas that have Rokkit pistols that is P2S7AP2D3 weapon (roll for D3) and it will hurt Corvus even at Orc BS accuracy. Or they can take (Mega)Nobz that are T4 and three attacks and when you combine that with Killsaw that is x2AP4D2 weapon then Corvus is very soon shredded into pieces (like everything else we have except maybe SS's). So yes you can silence BW for a turn by charging it but then haha you have tied yourself into dance with W16 model full something very nasty that can easily kill you and kill fast (learned this the hard way).

 

Finally, last question I promise, how large are battlewagons? Any chance the 3 bikers and 2 vv squad can help surround it with the Corvus in order to deny a disembark?

 

Battlewagon is 7" x 3 (front) -3,5" (back). Just tried this (yes, I have access to rather large Orc army) and was not able to surround it with just x3 Bikers and x2 VV but it is possible with x3 VV or Corvus. I'd post a picture but I don't know how to do it.

 

EDIT. Biker Nobs are T5, regular just T4.

EDIT2. Stupid me, forgot Corvus. Yes, with Corvus you can surround BW.

[Lemondish]

 

 

...

 

It will be interesting and fun battle I'm sure of that. Enjoy and happy Xenos hunting!

 

I'm not too familiar with Orks myself, so if you don't mind I'd like to pick your brain here a bit.

 

My pleasure. I got lot of support here when took my baby steps as a DW&WH40k player just year or so ago. I know Orcs and I follow GT lists but I'm not competitive level Orc expert - even even though 8 out of 10 of my games is against them or AM (small city - small meta).

 

I get what you're saying regarding the Librarian, melta, frag cannons, missile launchers, tempest shells, hellfire strat, etc. for trying to kill it quick - that all makes sense.

 

Yep, those are the tools and I'm not saying they are not enough. All I'm saying is that tools are scattered between units so there must be a plan how to use them against bigger threats because none of those weapons alone stops BW. This is why I always take TLC-Ven Dread against Orcs ...well against everything.  VenDread can if not stop at least slow and with good luck destroy them before they get close and if they do manage to get close then you can just use that DCCW to finish them off.

 

But if I'm not mistaken, an open topped transport applies the same limitations on firing to the unit(s) it's carrying. Thus, tying it up in combat silences it if they have to fall back and can't disembark. I imagine hovering the Corvus and charging the shooty BW would silence the transport pretty quickly, but I'm assuming any opponent would then spill the contents out on the board on their turn so as not to waste all their shooting. In your experience, do these shooty BWs normally carry things that can threaten a Corvus if allowed to blast up close? Do the choppy ones have a chance to down it if they charge? 

 

You are right about open topped rule. Whatever happens to the BW applies unit inside too. So cannot shoot if charged, except pistols. If there's just Boyz inside with Sluggas then it's just x20 shots comparable to boltgun - so no threat to Corvus. But instead of Boyz they can take Tankbustas that have Rokkit pistols that is P2S7AP2D3 weapon (roll for D3) and it will hurt Corvus even at Orc BS accuracy. Or they can take (Mega)Nobz that are T5 and three attacks and when you combine that with Killsaw that is x2AP4D2 weapon then Corvus is very soon shredded into pieces (like everything else we have except maybe SS's). So yes you can silence BW for a turn by charging it but then haha you have tied yourself into dance with W14 model full something very nasty that can easily kill you and kill fast (learned this the hard way).

 

Finally, last question I promise, how large are battlewagons? Any chance the 3 bikers and 2 vv squad can help surround it with the Corvus in order to deny a disembark?

 

Battlewagon is 7" x 3 (front) -3,5" (back). Just tried this (yes, I have access to rather large Orc army) and was not able to surround it with just x3 Bikers and x2 VV but it is possible with x3 VV. I'd post a picture but I don't know how to do it.

 

 

Thanks a ton for the info! I meant moreso that you'd have the bikes and two vv within 1'' of the BW trying to lock down one side and the Corvus and it's big flying base trying to block off the other, thus making it difficult for the whole 20 or so orks to disembark within 3'' and still stay 1'' away from the DW 'umies. Pretty sure anybody that can't be set up would be slain, which might be enough to dissuade the disembark in the first place.

 

I'm mostly just in love with the idea of surrounding the BW so heavily that they can neither move nor disembark until you decide to let them, but I don't have the models at hand to even see if it would work. 

[vigitant]

Keep in mind that our bolters and bolt rifles will strip wounds off T7 or less pretty effectively.  'Ard Case BW's are gonna be tough to kill without LC, Melta, or Plasma.

 

 

Edit:

Also, ran some numbers, dakkacorvus staying stationary with bubble and +1 wound strategem will take a chunk out of either BW.  you're looking at a 5-12 dmg scale.

 

One of the resons i've drifted away from lascannons is that so often i can get just as much work out of my SIA storm bolters and bolt rifles.  strategem makes helblasters so much more effective, as well.  At lower points values youre gonna have to rely on SIA to pull a lot of heavy lifting.

[Lemondish]

Keep in mind that our bolters and bolt rifles will strip wounds off T7 or less pretty effectively.  'Ard Case BW's are gonna be tough to kill without LC, Melta, or Plasma.

 

 

Edit:

Also, ran some numbers, dakkacorvus staying stationary with bubble and +1 wound strategem will take a chunk out of either BW.  you're looking at a 5-12 dmg scale.

 

One of the resons i've drifted away from lascannons is that so often i can get just as much work out of my SIA storm bolters and bolt rifles.  strategem makes helblasters so much more effective, as well.  At lower points values youre gonna have to rely on SIA to pull a lot of heavy lifting.

 

This is so true. 

 

Given the +1 to wound stratagems and the basic reroll of 1s to wound, high rate of fire/medium str weapons can do an awful lot of damage. Remember the Rowboat Girlyman TAC Razorback spam? That was (and still kind of is) so good because of the rerolls to wounds. Str 4 shots from bolters may only wound T7 vehicles on 5s, but when you're rerolling both shots AND wounds AND you're throwing buckets of dice at a time in the first place, you're gonna get some damage through. 

[zero88]

You might want to post up all the models that you have and it'd be a little easier to give you suggestions for your KT. But being able to make a Battalion is HUGE and that alone will make your list exponentially better. I would take one KT with 4 or 5 Stalker Bolters and Chainswords (converting those new Bolter Marines you found would be easy), and a Heavy Bolter for the strats. Use this as your support-by-fire element, then build two more teams as your workhorse units with Bolters and FC. I would put a VV in each of those squads.. you can't afford to have one unit not shooting every turn. If you do put all your eggs in one FC/Shotgun Corvus basket, try to position them so that they hit isolated units at a time. In such a tactic the Beacon Angelis could be well worth it as well. Finally, Librarians aren't the best choice to begin with, but especially against Orks who don't have invulnerable saves, usually don't care about Mortal wounds, and you don't want to be in combat against, so if you have any other HQ selections available it would probably be more useful.