BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Personally I prefer Ultramarines but a lot of people say Ravenguard is the best. Salamanders seems underappreciated and I have heard that Imperial Fists is really good too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 =][= Stay frosty, people. =][= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Ultramarines are great with Guilliman, without it I dont think they are too hot but they do have a very versatile tactic. Salamanders are also great, my guess is people dont use it too much because a single weapon being buffed doesnt do much and because Guilliman UM and DA kind of do their tactic better. My pick for the real winner of the codex are Raven Guard, not because of their tactic which is very strong for a codex that relies on shooting elements but because their stratagem opens up so many options and units for you to choose, it really boosts your ability to list build and threaten your opponent with different units and tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 As an Alpha Legion player I have to agree that Raven Guard have the best Chapter Tactics and one of the best Chapter stratagems for that matter. Combined they make an extremely versatile army. I'd stack Ultras as second in both Tactics and strat, since the ability to basically grant Captain/Chapter Master rerolls to any infantry on the board is, I feel, a really good force multiplier. Iron Hands took a big hit now that we can't double dip FNP rolls, but their strat is still awesome and I've been making heavy use of it with aircraft (Stormalons hitting on 2+? Yes please!). Fists are okay - it can actually force your opponent to adjust their deployment and maneuvers in odd ways once they realize they don't need to get into cover, and it can sometimes bite you in the butt - and I think the Sallies are criminally underrated (though their strat is very specialized, it is at least fluffy). Scars can be useful but since the codex as a whole isn't very assault oriented it loses some of its teeth, and the Templars....well. I wish their Tactics were better because they do seem the least useful out of all of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Ultrmarines also have access to some of the best special characters which can synergize well their CTs. I believe CF use IF CT and have access to a very powerful relic melee weapon... I have seen games where the Ignore Cover literally won them the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I’m biased towards Ultramarines over the editions, so now that that’s out there.... I think we have to be fair here and differentiate ‘characters’ from ‘chapter tactics’. I think Ultramarines appear to challenge top spot but typically it’s Guilliman and Tigurius doing a lot of heavy lifting. At the top of competitive play I continually see Raven Guard. I can’t ignore that and while you see a lot of units simply taking advantage of the the infiltration it still continues to get around the FAQ beta rules, making them even stronger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Personally having watched a lot of games I’ve seen RG CT backfire just as often if not more as they help. For example SM are not a strong melee army. Alpha Legion on the other hand has access to units better suited to using this type of strat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 And it backfires on me all the time too. My Alpha Legion Berzerkers got shot up quite often when I dont get first turn because it's rare to find someone who doesn't respect what they can do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wargamer Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Iron Hands, obviously. You get to just flat out refuse to accept your opponent dealt damage to your units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 What?? Re-roll charges isn't good? Shocking!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Personally, I think it’s best to discover your play style using zero tactics or stratagems. Ask a friend or local vet to proxy a few games and what they think that might be. It’s always hard to analyze ourselves without bias. Then look at the tactics and stratagems that best enhance your natural aptitudes. Could be Dark Angels, could be Ultras, could be a non-power armored army (I’m not sure how but it could be lol) Then listen to the shadows as they whisper .... Lycaeus ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Pre faq the IH could be dirty with triple 6++ but post faq they aren't great Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 They used to have some really amazing FNP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5118997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Yeah...it feels especially terrible because multiple FNP rolls for Venerable Dreadnoughts was something that was deliberately called out as an advantage in our Chapter Focus article when the codex dropped. It's not like Iron Hands were common enough or placing high enough in major events that it was some massive issue slowing gameplay or unbalancing lists either. At this point, I feel the strength of the chapter isn't in the FNP rolls but the stratagem. Machine Empathy has so many good uses. Vindicator short range got you down? Don't fret, now you can move and shoot! Stormtalons and Stormhawks have to move and carry just heavy weapons...but now you can hit their preferred targets on 2+! Want that dreadnought (or tank!) to move from its hidden deployment spot so it can shoot? Or need to get a dreadnought into heavy flamer/charge range but don't want to give up accuracy on your main gun? Problem solved! Assault cannon Razorbacks are awesome but less awesome when you only hit on a 4+. Not an issue, brother. I'm not saying Iron Hands are the best. I'm not saying their Chapter Tactics or even their stratagem are inherently better than any other Chapter's (I already said Raven Guard and Ultras top the list) but I love my Iron Hands and I've found a way to play them that works fairly well for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5119341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Ironfather I think you picked an important point. My own chapter (Black Templars) has a lackluster tactic, but a powerful strategem, the best tactical equivalent, and one of the best chapter relics (Crusader’s Helm). Certain tactics get weaker or stronger depending on what surrounds them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5119348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicarius6 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 The actual "chapter tactic" of Ultramarines has not made a blind bit of difference in the games I've played, similarly ATSKNF. I've not once been able to step out of combat and fire as almost invariably whatever has hit my marines in melee has crushed them. The +1 Leadership is useful however, though hardly amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5119503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 +1 Leadership has combined with ATSKNF to save my Marines running loads of times. Retreating and shooting plasma guns and combi plasma from my surviving 2 Tactical Marines is also dead useful. Not game breaking but annoying for my mates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5119538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 close call between raven guard and iron hands but i would say the raven guard. their chapter tactic is fluffy and effective to a certain degree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5119562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 I’ve made good use of being able to fall back and shoot many times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5119622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I find the Iron Hands doctrine downright insulting. I mean...they have a 6+ FNP on their marines, bikers, and dreads. Deathgaurd have a 5+ FNP, and it covers their daemon engines, some which are far more tanky than anything SM has. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5120067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Agreed. I wonder if the popularity of Marines is taken into account ... imagine the other factions uproar if a omni-marine list was actually upper tier ... or even upper middle tier? Or it's just a normal case of power creep? Which is weird considering development should have had a lot of crossover time? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5120153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Agreed. I wonder if the popularity of Marines is taken into account ... imagine the other factions uproar if a omni-marine list was actually upper tier ... or even upper middle tier? Or it's just a normal case of power creep? Which is weird considering development should have had a lot of crossover time? I thought Disgustingly Resilient was a thing as early as Dark Imperium. Wouldn't that mean the opposite in this case, or am I just remembering that wrong? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5120160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I guess how you look at it. I don't consider 5+ FNP to be a OP ability. It depends on how it synergizes with other abilities. Nurgle have been hard nuts far back as 3rd as far as I remember, but were balanced by being unwieldy as hell. Vanilla Marines have ALWAYS taken it on the chin compared to either of the Big Four baddies on either side of the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5120181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 When your whole army has 5+ FNP that’s OP but for DG if fits their background. I am okay with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5120204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipl8 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Plus isnt the DG's 5+++ built into their points cost? Whereas Astartes get a variety of Chapter Tactics to pick from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348718-which-chapter-tactics-are-the-best/#findComment-5120439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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