Help me build a Household Raven list....plz!

[Jegind]

As the topic says, I need help to build up a 2000 pts. Household Raven list. Ive just read Reecius ( from BoLS) tactics using Warglavies with a Perceptor, and I think it would be fun to play. Im new at this, so plz have that in mind

 

So fat ive thought about getting 2x Warglavies standing next to the Perceptor, and a Gallant on the other side for the 6" Landstrider buff (from Perceptor warlord trait)

 

I really wanna use on of the new Dominus knights aswell, so thinking about getting a Castellan to give some shooting support.......and them im lost. Im at 1705 pts. with that I described....so what to get?

 

As I said, im new...so have that in mind. I would love to get some feedback both the positive (if there is any) but also want the negative

Reecius

 

Im not playing any competitive at all, and just playing with friends......only competitive thing we got when playing, is who can drink the most beer :D

Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/imperial-knights-tactics-armiger-warglaives.html

Reecius

Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/imperial-knights-tactics-armiger-warglaives.html

[Stray]

I have to say, I'm not all that impressed by the article :/

 

House Raven is not in my opinion an optimal choice for units which are a] armed with assault weapons, and b] benefit from being in close combat.

 

Now, if he were arguing for Raven for Helverins I'd be far more inclined to agree. He also spent the entire article referring to the Preceptor as a 'Perceptor' - a simple mistake, but one that makes me pause and think about the level of care and thought that went into his content :/

 

In your list, I'd be tempted to replace the Warglaives with Helverins if you're going Raven (which is a decent idea when you're taking a Castellan). Don't bother with the Landstrider trait on the Preceptor either - you're using it to buff other units in this case, so staying power is more valuable imo, you want it alive to provide your buffs. Ion Bulwark makes a lot of sense, leaving you room for 'The Helm Dominatus' as a relic - further buffing your Armigers.

 

Landstrider seems a far better fit on something like a Gallant or a Lancer - especially if you have more than one to benefit from the 'aura'.

[Lord Momotaro]

 

House Raven is not in my opinion an optimal choice for units which are a] armed with assault weapons, and b] benefit from being in close combat.

 

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on this one. You still get to push your Warglaives down the field faster to get them into CC sooner and the Raven relic is really underappreciated. 2 Warglaives led by a Gallant with the Banner Inviolate is pretty effective in my experience. 

 

I'd look at running 2 Gallants each in separate detachments with 2 Warglaives each. Give one the Banner and Landstrider, and the other the Paragon gauntlet. Take a Castellan as your warlord with Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath to cover everything. Maybe a little cheesy but would be a fun,fast list.

[brother_b]

I think Reecius is pretty polarizing especially because he's also a playtester. That being said I think assault weapons without the -1 to firing after the advance is what he's trying to recommend.

 

I'm honestly torn between Krast and raven for questor mech and hawkshroud and Griffith for imperialis.

 

I hadn't decided yet but still have time because I haven't built any of my knights!

[Stray]

 

 

House Raven is not in my opinion an optimal choice for units which are a] armed with assault weapons, and b] benefit from being in close combat.

 

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on this one. You still get to push your Warglaives down the field faster to get them into CC sooner and the Raven relic is really underappreciated. 2 Warglaives led by a Gallant with the Banner Inviolate is pretty effective in my experience. 

 

I'd look at running 2 Gallants each in separate detachments with 2 Warglaives each. Give one the Banner and Landstrider, and the other the Paragon gauntlet. Take a Castellan as your warlord with Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath to cover everything. Maybe a little cheesy but would be a fun,fast list.

 

 

I agree with that. What I don't get behind is use of Raven in a unit which is better off in CC - numbers don't lie, Warglaives do the most harm there. The Thermal Lance is a deeply unimpressive weapon on average.

 

Given that they are of most use in CC, a House Tradition that gives them bonuses in that position seems waaaay more worthwhile. Turn one, maybe you get to shoot after advancing without a penalty - but after that? After that all you do by advancing is prevent yourself from being allowed to charge - no-one is going to burn 'full tilt' on an armiger realistically. 

 

The take home is that in a Warglaive heavy list, the smart money is on a Tradition which will benefit them where they are best placed. If you're using them as a mobile shooting unit, I think you're using them wrong.

 

Honestly I think your concept of pairing them with a Gallant is far smarter than what Reecius is advocating here Momo  - though Helm Dominatus is far more flexible if you're looking to buff Armigers and doesn't lock you into a specific House. Hell you could even use it to negate the penalty for advancing and firing to effectively gain the Raven Tradition in this scenario.

[Jegind]

 

 

House Raven is not in my opinion an optimal choice for units which are a] armed with assault weapons, and b] benefit from being in close combat.

 

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on this one. You still get to push your Warglaives down the field faster to get them into CC sooner and the Raven relic is really underappreciated. 2 Warglaives led by a Gallant with the Banner Inviolate is pretty effective in my experience. 

 

I'd look at running 2 Gallants each in separate detachments with 2 Warglaives each. Give one the Banner and Landstrider, and the other the Paragon gauntlet. Take a Castellan as your warlord with Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath to cover everything. Maybe a little cheesy but would be a fun,fast list.

 

How can I run to diffrent detachments, and take banner with one and Paragon gauntlet with the other? Im using battlescribe, and I cant get it to work :(

And wouldnt house Terryn with landstrider be the "best" to get fast in CC?

[Stray]

 

 

 

House Raven is not in my opinion an optimal choice for units which are a] armed with assault weapons, and b] benefit from being in close combat.

 

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on this one. You still get to push your Warglaives down the field faster to get them into CC sooner and the Raven relic is really underappreciated. 2 Warglaives led by a Gallant with the Banner Inviolate is pretty effective in my experience. 

 

I'd look at running 2 Gallants each in separate detachments with 2 Warglaives each. Give one the Banner and Landstrider, and the other the Paragon gauntlet. Take a Castellan as your warlord with Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath to cover everything. Maybe a little cheesy but would be a fun,fast list.

 

How can I run to diffrent detachments, and take banner with one and Paragon gauntlet with the other? Im using battlescribe, and I cant get it to work

And wouldnt house Terryn with landstrider be the "best" to get fast in CC?

 

 

In BattleScribe you have a 'Imperial Knights (Super Heavy Detachment)' added as a force yes?

 

Edit Forces, click on 'Roster' so it's highlighted, then press 'Add' and select another 'Imperial Knights (Super Heavy Detachment)'.

 

Hit OK and you'll now have two separate detachments that you can customise independently. You'll be able to put a Gallant and co in each and take both relics.

[Jegind]

Well,I did that.

 

But now it says.:

too many hairlooms of the noble house (max 1) which i gave the other Gallant in the other detachemnt

too many selections of character

Must have one more selections of house hold

 

I cant see where I can choose house hold for the 2nd detachment im adding

[Stray]

So, firstly are you using a mobile build, or the PC build of BattleScribe?

 

In either case it sounds like you're not adding 'Exalted Court' and/or 'Heirlooms of the Household' to each of your detachments. You have to do this to allow relics etc to be legal. 

 

On the PC build, Household choice, Exalted Court etc is in the left panel at the top of the entries. Make sure you have the right Detachment highlighted in the center panel before you add them though.

 

You then need to click on each Knight, and choose to make them a Character, and inform BattleScribe whether they are your Warlord, part of the Exalted Court flag etc. 

 

If you're using the mobile version, shout and I'll fire up my Emulator and walk you through doing it via the Android client.

[Jegind]

Thanks alot, its working out. But what if i wanna add my Castalan (dont have the codex yet) what detachement should iadd for that?

[Lord Momotaro]

You can just add the Castellan to one of the super heavy detachments as long as you don't have more than 5 lords of war in one SH Detachment. You should end up with 5 command points if I'm not mistaken. 9 - 4 For Heirlooms of the House & Exalted Court

[Karhedron]

And wouldnt house Terryn with landstrider be the "best" to get fast in CC?

Yes, a Terryn Lance with a Gallant and 2 Warglaives would make superb use of the House Trait. Add Landstrider the Galant (and Sanctuary if you can afford a Relic slot) and you have an exceptionally fast and hard hitting force.

 

A Terryn Gallant with Landstraider has an average threat range of 29.5" if you use "Full Tilt". You can charge halfway into your opponent's deployment zone on Turn 1 if an opening presents itself. One thing I have noticed is that the adoption of the Beta rules for Reserves means that people are taking less chaff for screening now so a T1 charge against a juicy target is a bigger possibility.

 

A Terryn lance like that be had for 692 points, bare bones (although I would be include some upgrades like melta guns). which leaves plenty of room for a shooty Mechanicus Lance too.

 

If you are running Raven then the ultimate fire support unit has to be the Castellan. Combine it with the Raven stratagem for a level of firepower that has to be seen to be believed. Add Cawl's Wrath to further boost your offense and Ion Bulwark for defense and you are golden.

 

A Warden in my favourite "swiss army knight" as a great all-rounder. The combo of Avenger, Stormspear and Reaper makes it a threat to all types of targets without breaking the bank. Add a pair of Helverins for extra fire support and you have another Lance ready. So at 2000 points, a full list would something like this.

 

Terryn Lance (+3CPs)

377 Gallant (Land Strider) Reaper, Fist, heavy stubber, stormspear missiles

177 Warglaive, Thermal Spear, melta gun

177 Warglaive, Thermal Spear, melta gun

 

Raven Lance (+3 CPs)

592 Castellan (Ion Bulwark, Cawl's Wrath) 2 Shieldbreaker missiles, 2x Seigebreaker Cannons

466 Warden (Endless Fury) Avenger, heavy flamer, Stormspear missiles, Stubber, Reaper

174 Helverin with heavy stubber

 

1963 Total

 

This list has 7 CPs after you subtract 2 for an extra Warlord trait and Relic. The Stormspear Pod on the Gallant may come in handy late-game if you want to break off and shoot stuff in between rounds of CC. The Terryn Lance is designed to plunge headlong into the enemy and create carnage whilst also distracting attention from the shootier Raven Lance.

 

7 CPs is not a huge amount but should be enough for a couple of uses of the Raven Stratagem on the Castellan and a couple of uses of Rotate Ion Shields on the whichever of the Questoris knights is taking heavier fire. You can also use Deathgrip on the Gallant if a suitable target wanders too close (choking an expensive Warlord and ignoring his invulnerable save is always great fun ).

[Jegind]

Okay so correct me if im wrong. I can run a household with a Gallant with warlord trait landstrider and a hairloom, and a given household with 2 warglaives as a heavy detachment. Then run another household with a Castellan, with another warlord trait and hairloom, + a Warden with a hairloom and a Helverin to complete another heavy detachement?

[Stray]

Okay so correct me if im wrong. I can run a household with a Gallant with warlord trait landstrider and a hairloom, and a given household with 2 warglaives as a heavy detachment. Then run another household with a Castellan, with another warlord trait and hairloom, + a Warden with a hairloom and a Helverin to complete another heavy detachement?

 

Yep, that should be absolutely fine. It'll run you 4CP total to do though assuming you're using your free Trait & Relic on one of the Knights. 

[jeffersonian000]

Ironically, I posted a 1750pt list last month based around House Raven running a Landstrider Preceptor with Dominate Helm, a Warden with Fury and Cunning Commander, a Gallant with Paragon and +1 Attack, a Warglaive, 2 Helverins, and all 3 Questoris with Ironstorm Missile pods. Hits 1750 on the nose.

 

This was before the CP boosting Errata. I wanted to try a Knight army with all CP spend pre-game but with maximize baked-in buff, just to see how it would play. But the Errata came out before the Helverins, and the meta has shifted since.

 

SJ

[sneakybamsen]

Just for inspiration, I'm considering getting a castellan for not top-tier play (even though a lot of ETC teams seem to be using them, some even several in the same list). The list looks like the below (DA can be substituted for other faction or more mini knights, Castigator can be replaced by a warden for instance, which does free up some points and save a lot of money)

 

House Raven super heavy detachment +6CP

Castellan with Cawl's Wrath and ion bulwark, 1 twin siegebreaker cannon, 4 shieldbreaker missiles - 593 pts

Crusader with Endless Fury, rapid-fire battle cannon, stubber, ironstorm missile pod - 501 pts

Cerastus knight castigator with Armour of the Sainted Ion and Blessed by the Sacristans - 500 pts

 

Dark Angels battalion +5CP

Ezekiel - 135 pts

Librarian with force sword - 96 pts

Scout squad with heavy bolter - 65 pts

2 bolter scout squads - 110 pts

 

2000 on the dot. I feel this is decent use of the strats available to house raven and with some psychic support, I think it could be good fun. Not top-tier as I said, but the amount of dakka will be cause for concern for people :) The strength is having two good targets for the reroll all 1's stratagem. In several scenarios, I'd even use it on the crusader over the castellan, as it's more dice being influenced.

 

You could swap the basic librarian for a techmarine and upgrade the ironstorm to a stormspear, if you wanted to, possibly netting a missile swap for a siegebreaker cannon, or a second heavy bolter in a scout squad in addition. The tech marine would then try to help keeping the dominus or the castigator alive, but with the movement of the castigator, it's gonna be tricky. Could be fun though with Mark of the Omnissiah, techmarine and the castigators own repairs... Would require a techmarine on bike to work, in which case you can't get the stormspear rocket instead of the ironstorm. It would be one tough cookie to crack (unless you're facing shadowswords or titans).

 

Regards

Sneaky

[Karhedron]

I thought that Techmarines could only repair <Chapter> vehicles. I was under the impression that the only faction that could repair Knights are Admech and then only Mechanicus (not Questoris).

 

Happy to be proved wrong though.

[Stray]

I really like your thinking behind the relic & trait on the Castigator. Combined with the Companions strat, you've the potential for some very scary mortal wounds output that turn. I'd love to hear how that in particular works out in practice.

[sneakybamsen]

I thought that Techmarines could only repair <Chapter> vehicles. I was under the impression that the only faction that could repair Knights are Admech and then only Mechanicus (not Questoris).

 

Happy to be proved wrong though.

 

To be very honest I haven't checked out that part. Luckily my primary list is focused on librarians, so unless someone decides to give the techmarine a go, it shouldn't be cause for concern. It's good of you to point it out, though.

[sneakybamsen]

I really like your thinking behind the relic & trait on the Castigator. Combined with the Companions strat, you've the potential for some very scary mortal wounds output that turn. I'd love to hear how that in particular works out in practice.

 

Getting the castellan is a must for me to try it out, but I feel the companions stratagem would be better used on crusader/castellan most of the time if not all the time, although you are right, it does make it more scary to get rerolls of 1's.