Fighting Mortarion

[Progenitor]

Just how? I had an Eternal War mission against a 1500pts list of Death Guard that dropped a Morty. We're getting a refight a week on Saturday and I know this chap will be wheeled out again, not for a WAAC reason, but more for an "it's an easy way to fill 500pts" reason. 

 

My Dark Angels collection is composed of the following in various stage of build/paint but I'm struggling to think about how I can do anything without sinking more money into the collection (I'm currently building a T'au army so don't really want to bulk out too much considering I have all that to build and paint, my Dark Angels are mostly tabletop ready though). 

 

Azrael

Librarian in PA

Interrogator-Chaplain in PA

2 Primaris Lieutenants

Primaris Master in Gravis

Primaris Ancient

Apothecary in PA

5 Deathwing Termies with Assault Cannon

LR Crusader

Relic Sicaran

Dreadnought

Ven. Dreadnought with TL Lascannon and M/L

Redemptor Dreadnought with Plasma

30 Tactical Marines with 1 Plasma gun, 2 flamers, 1 Plasma Cannon, 1 Lascannon and 1 M/L

20 Intercessors

3 Assault Bolter Inceptors

3 Plasma Inceptors

2 Darkshrouds

15 Hellblasters

1 Relic Spartan

 

My mind just goes into spasm trying to have any way of tieing him up, delaying him, let alone putting wounds on him that will stick. I know there's the "play the mission" strategy but he's not slow, neither is the winged DP and Bloat Drones backing him up. There's speed in that army you don't expect. I know a lot of it is getting used to playing this army (not faced them before) as well as getting used to mine (not played since 6th, not played DA since 2nd!). 

 

 

[Knight Angels]

Mortarion plus a winged DP in 1500 pts?

 

C'mon  

where is the fluff? where is a "realistic" ratio between HQ's / troops / size of the army?

 

honestly, i wouldnt play against that.... or at least bring some swiss cheese to eat during his turns.

[Dark_Master]

If he’s going to do that I’d spam three Culexus Assassins. 255pts for Vanguard Execution Squad. Hopefully tie him up for enough time to kill him with high strength Las/ plasma

 

DM

[SnakeChisler]

Spam is the killer and lots of it, I normally take autocannon Dreads which help due to range, you don't really want him any where near you.

 

Missile & Heavy Bolter for mortal wounds

 

the main reason he's stopped appearing in comp lists though is stuff like killshot from 3 predators and Eldar in general.

[sneakybamsen]

Bloat-drones are quite strong, daemon princes aren't bad, especially with wings and morty is... well, Mortarion. Those three in 1500 is a semi-competitive list, I'd say, without being an expert. I'd do one of two things - preferably I'd tell him what kind of games I enjoy, go over army lists with him and use common sense. That or don't play him. I have a feeling he might be a waac player, a lot of them don't seem keen on realizing/admitting that, however. Have no doubt, the first one of the two options is by far and away the best both short nd long term. If he's not willing to change the list up, don't play him.

 

With what you do have though, I'd bring Azrael, lieutenant and ancient, a lot of hellblasters, some scouts (you need to get three boxes, sorry), plasma inceptors, darkshroud and possibly some devastators with amorium cherub, heavy bolter and missile launcher for mortal wound stratagems (one box should do). Ask him to take it to 2000 (morty's impact will diminish when you have 500 points more firepower to annihilate the #!&$* turn 1). What you have then is a pretty strong 2000 pt list that should soundly beat him and others like him most of the time, especially if you are a good player to boot.

[G8Keeper]

Bloat-drones are quite strong, daemon princes aren't bad, especially with wings and morty is... well, Mortarion. Those three in 1500 is a semi-competitive list, I'd say, without being an expert. I'd do one of two things - preferably I'd tell him what kind of games I enjoy, go over army lists with him and use common sense. That or don't play him. I have a feeling he might be a waac player, a lot of them don't seem keen on realizing/admitting that, however. Have no doubt, the first one of the two options is by far and away the best both short nd long term. If he's not willing to change the list up, don't play him.

 

With what you do have though, I'd bring Azrael, lieutenant and ancient, a lot of hellblasters, some scouts (you need to get three boxes, sorry), plasma inceptors, darkshroud and possibly some devastators with amorium cherub, heavy bolter and missile launcher for mortal wound stratagems (one box should do). Ask him to take it to 2000 (morty's impact will diminish when you have 500 points more firepower to annihilate the #!&$* turn 1). What you have then is a pretty strong 2000 pt list that should soundly beat him and others like him most of the time, especially if you are a good player to boot.

 

I pretty much echo this.  Look at using WotDA on supercharging Hellblasters (near Azrael for re-rolls) to maximise the damage each shot that gets through does.  Once you start smoking him early doors your opponent will likely change up his list and it may become a bit more enjoyable again.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Forgive me but I noticed you have a Spartan tank. Isn't that the mother of all land raiders? Does it have a rule where it can continue shooting after it falls back? If it does, you can try bait Mortarion and then fall back and shoot his smelly behind off.

 

I wish I could give practical experience but i'm just throwing ideas here. Deathguard, Mortarion in particular is devastating due to their mortal wound farts which typically happens in their player turn to anyone within vicinity.

 

Might I suggest stuffing as many Deathwing terminators, especially DWK, along with a hellblaster squad and a chaplain in the Spartan. Bait Mortarion into killing that first. Not sure if he can kill a Spartan in one turn, but I'm assuming the worst here. Then in your turn, spill out and WOTDA your hellblasters and charge your deathwing Knights with chaplain support. Add a Deathwing Standard for extra attack as well.

 

Otherwise, a full plasma gunline bubble wrapped by as many scouts you can fit in maybe your best chance to avoid his huge movement made even better by Warptime.

[Basteala]

I know it's forgeworld, but for the sake of theorycraft, maybe something along the lines of a Leviathan would help. It enjoys a 4+ invuln, and it's stormcannons are S7, so at least making the wounding on 4 threshold. It also has access to armor of contempt--a DA stratagem that can mitigate mortal wounds.

 

Other than that--I have to echo what almost everyone else has said, use DA's usual way of solving problems: throwing Hellblasters at a big threat until it goes away.

[CCE1981]

The problem with Mortarian is that his stats are only his stats if Death Guard go second. About 40% of the players have a Death Guard at least as an alternate army, Mortarian is always getting two buffs -1 to hit and +1 toughness.

[Closet Skeleton]

The problem with Mortarian is that his stats are only his stats if Death Guard go second. About 40% of the players have a Death Guard at least as an alternate army, Mortarian is always getting two buffs -1 to hit and +1 toughness.

There's no +1 toughness buff that works on Mortarion, your opponents are cheating.

 

I played Dark Angels twice in a tournament with my Mortarion and really don't think you should have any trouble with 15 helblasters and weapons of the dark age. Unless Mortarion makes a well above average amount of 4++ saves but when that happens Death Guard are basically unbeatable.

 

Mortarion didn't survive past turn 2 against 18 helblasters backed by Azrael and a lieutenant.

 

I won the other game because my opponent was inexperienced and threw away his planes in a risky maneuver that didn't pay off and I was able to neutralise his black knights before they were in range.

 

Mortarion isn't hard to kill, he's good in a t7 list backed up by bloat drones but that list would be better with more drones instead.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

The problem with Mortarian is that his stats are only his stats if Death Guard go second. About 40% of the players have a Death Guard at least as an alternate army, Mortarian is always getting two buffs -1 to hit and +1 toughness.

There's no +1 toughness buff that works on Mortarion, your opponents are cheating.

 

I played Dark Angels twice in a tournament with my Mortarion and really don't think you should have any trouble with 15 helblasters and weapons of the dark age. Unless Mortarion makes a well above average amount of 4++ saves but when that happens Death Guard are basically unbeatable.

 

Mortarion didn't survive past turn 2 against 18 helblasters backed by Azrael and a lieutenant.

 

I won the other game because my opponent was inexperienced and threw away his planes in a risky maneuver that didn't pay off and I was able to neutralise his black knights before they were in range.

 

Mortarion isn't hard to kill, he's good in a t7 list backed up by bloat drones but that list would be better with more drones instead.

 

 

I don't think you should make it sound so easy. The OP is not confident, do not give him a false sense of hope with just stating Hellblasters and WOTDA, end of story. Against Mortarion, deployment and counter deployment is key in order to avoid Mortarion getting in the OP's gunlines on Turn 1 BEFORE the OP can fire. Bear in mind that in addition to 4++, Mortarion also has disgusting resilient. And he is also a psyker, who can potential give himself -1 to hit, making the Hellblasters Get hot on 1 and 2s and also miss on 3s. And don't forget, Mortarion may have his own fire support, like the Blight Drones or plagueburst tanks raining their own fire on the DA lines. With such a big model like Mortarion, the DG army may even get the +1 to go first.

 

Besides, 15 Hellblasters isn't anymore efficient than 15 Plasma Cannon devastators, as the AP-4 isn't useful than AP-3, at least on Mortarion. Also if he bunches up the Hellblasters, they maybe vulnerable to Plague wind spell, where if Mortarion rolls a 6 for each model in a unit, that's a mortal wound. Best he splits the HB in a few MSUs. Still, I prefer plasma cannons for the extra range, so that if the DA player goes first, can fire on mortarion from afar instead of the 30" range of the Hellblasters.

 

to the OP, I suggest you find tactics on deployment and army placing for DA gunlines. Hate to say this, but castle up in a corner if you can. Generally, use scouts to create a "bubble around your gunline, which should be quite cheap. Or as mentioned earlier, bait him with your spartan and place your venerable dreadnoughts/redemptors/heavy hitters behind it. Then assuming the Spartan survives or explodes, Mortarion will be a sitting duck in your firing lines in your turn. Again placement is key, you want ALL your firepower on him. If you have to move to shoot, do it, at least you have azrael for rerolls.

 

Oh wait, you don't seem to have scouts..... in which case, you will have to castle even deeper and bait him to come to you, this time using the tacticals, preferably in Rhinos, to block the way into your gunline.

 

Hope this helps.

[Basteala]

Mortarion wants to get into melee range. That probably means having to survive one round of rapid shooting. I don't know about you, but 20 shots from a squad of 10 Hellblasters is more than even the mathematical best from 4 plasma cannons (12). For weapons from the dark age, + overcharge, that's going to matter.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

Also if he bunches up the Hellblasters, they maybe vulnerable to Plague wind spell, where if Mortarion rolls a 6 for each model in a unit, that's a mortal wound. Best he splits the HB in a few MSUs.

 

 

Plaguewind is statistically worse than smite against units above 5 models and is the worst power in the Death Guard discipline, so its nothing to build strategies around.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

[Azekai]

Death Guard player here! But I don't use Mortarion... don't even own the model, partially for some of the reasons described in this thread. He is difficult to include. If an opponent is unprepared, the primarch basically wins the game singlehanded. If the opponent is sufficiently prepared, Morty turns into a overpriced bullet sponge that dies before having any impact, often costing the DG player the game.

That being said, there is a big difference 1500 points v. 2000 points. At 2k you can comfortably take enough long range high strength firepower that will kill the daemon primarch. 1500... you have a lot less margin of error. The game is essentially 'kill Morty' for you and 'Morty lives = I win' for the other guy, which doesn't seem especially compelling for either player. 
 

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

 
One can still play, but I would suggest to use a smaller point value game and leave the giant lords of war at home.
Unless your opponent is dead-set on using Mortarion (and I didn't get that impression from the OP) y'all both might have more fun that way.

[FlamingDeth]

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

Mortarion seems to me to be closer to global thermonuclear war than tic tac toe.

 

Hey Ezra, we might be too old for this thread!

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

Mortarion seems to me to be closer to global thermonuclear war than tic tac toe.

 

Hey Ezra, we might be too old for this thread!

 

These kids and their new toys stepping on my lawn!

 

:P

[Progenitor]

I had a word with Matthew Broderick and he doesn't play Death Guard..... 

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I had a word with Matthew Broderick and he doesn't play Death Guard..... 

Probably Black Legion then.

[G8Keeper]

I have no idea what's going on.