How would you make a redeemed servant of chaos?

[N1SB]

 

What an interesting question, and fascinating answers.  I hadn't really formulated an opinion until reading all these points of view, and even then I just had an idea.

 

 

There is soul-jiggery-pokery going on there...

 

 

There are redeemable souls in Age of Sigmar is because it's literally the Soul Wars right now, i.e. it's not just because it's the fantasy setting, but also because it's the storyline.  The revived Daughters of Khaine faction are literally souls ripped away from Slaanesh now.  The different "gods" of the setting are fighting over souls, thus it actually makes perfect sense there's this conversion away from Chaos.  There's this soul-forging process, which is like re-programming a soul, to actually do it.  "Soul-jiggery-pokery" is a great way to describe the whole thing, honestly.

 

 

Yeah but the point is that big E is no god. Or at least not officially yet. He gets worshipped and we seem to have something like imperial daemons but nothing confirmed and so far big E hasn't gone around doing god-stuff like Sigmar did.

AoS is literally god vs god vs god vs ... (with their lackeys)

40k is fanatic humanity with a super psyker vs gods vs xenos

 

So while Sigmar and other gods can fight over souls, there's simply nobody who can do so in 40k except for the chaos gods and the eldar gods. If you're damned, you're damned normally.

 

 

For the record, I was agreeing with the point and providing context for it, precisely to show that the soul-jiggery-pokery is an AoS-specific issue.

 

I apologise if there was confusion caused by my wording.  I thought everything in my initial post pointed to the fact that AoS was this game of gods and souls, because I know not everyone here is familiar with it, thus it was a wholly different situation.

[Ishagu]

Only in death can they be redeemed. Chaos is insidious, it's corruption lingers.

[Biscuittzz]

"A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor."

[Arkangilos]

Penitent engines and arco flagellants

[Tyriks]

Arco flagellants don't have control of their actions and aren't redeemed. They (at least in some cases) would still be committing heresy had they not been caught and forced into the helms. Penitent engines might be actually redeemed, though. I'm not sure. They aren't necessarily former heretics, though; at least some times they are just failures, not sinners.

[Beren]

There are rare few in the service of radical Inquisitors who were once themselves vile heretics, adorers of demons, recidivists and witches who once scorned the purity of the Emperor for either their own pleasure, gain or spite. When discovered by the Holy Ordos, all these can hope for is a swift death that is rarely given. Many are wracked, branded and flayed for many days, weeks or months before they are finally granted the peace of death. Some, in this time of pain and question, find in themselves an understanding of what they have done and what they have become. Some beg for forgiveness; few receive it. A very few find that their pleas have been heard by one willing to give them a second life: a life as a penitent in the service of the God Emperor of Mankind. These penitent servants have only the life given to them by their master and are fanatical in both their devotion to that master and the chance of earning forgiveness for what they once were.

 

Skills: 2 Forbidden lores

Talents:Dark Soul, Insanely Faithful and Flagellant

Corruption: 10+ d10 corruption points and one automatic malignancy.

 

Dark Heresy-The Radical's Handbook-page 37

 

Note that this is not referring to penitent engines.

[Skaorn]

There is another option for "redemption" it is always possible that Tzeentch (but I could also see Malal somehow forcibly severing Chaos's taint from someone who earns its attention) throws a CSM out and removes all their corruption for the lols of seeing what they do. I suppose you could even expand that to even a warband or company size. What would they do? Try to rejoin Chaos that rejected them or try to sneak back into the Emperors service. Not a really solid background, but you could certainly work with it for a homebrew chapter.

[Arkangilos]

Arco flagellants don't have control of their actions and aren't redeemed. They (at least in some cases) would still be committing heresy had they not been caught and forced into the helms. Penitent engines might be actually redeemed, though. I'm not sure. They aren't necessarily former heretics, though; at least some times they are just failures, not sinners.

Are you sure? I've read that it is a form of redemption.

 

Also note, I'm not saying it isn't a sentence, but the purpose is to expunge the sin from their body (forcefully or not) until they die. That's a form of redemption.

[Evil Eye]

I had an idea for a Sisters order who believed that the heretic could be redeemed without death (emphasis mine "heretic": actual traitors are a different matter), and their ranks were filled with "the reborn"- girls and women who were for whatever reason judged unclean, but not beyond salvation, and went through some rather horrible "reconditioning" processes until they were either dead or judged pure in the eyes of the Emperor. Examples might include members of non-militant cults, the children of heretics, unwilling followers/servants of chaotic masters, and those that confess sins great enough to warrant purification but not great enough to deserve death. Of course, the methods used by the Order are a closely guarded secret, and there are still doubts as to whether the reborn are truly pure from taint...

[Servant of Dante]

I had an idea for a Sisters order who believed that the heretic could be redeemed without death (emphasis mine "heretic": actual traitors are a different matter), and their ranks were filled with "the reborn"- girls and women who were for whatever reason judged unclean, but not beyond salvation, and went through some rather horrible "reconditioning" processes until they were either dead or judged pure in the eyes of the Emperor. Examples might include members of non-militant cults, the children of heretics, unwilling followers/servants of chaotic masters, and those that confess sins great enough to warrant purification but not great enough to deserve death. Of course, the methods used by the Order are a closely guarded secret, and there are still doubts as to whether the reborn are truly pure from taint...

One thing to consider is that all Sisters are raised from infancy in a Schola progenia, so I guess the children of heretics angle could work. Personally I have a number of other fluff arguments against such an idea but this isn’t the place for such a discussion and its your hobby :D

 

However, if you do want to talk with someone about ideas for DIY Adepta Sororitas, feel free to message me!

[Exilyth]

In the gaunt's ghost's series, in the novels "bloodpact" and "the fortress" (and some others), there is a character

named Mabbon Etogaur who was an imperial citizen, then became a blood pact cultist, then defected to the sons of sek and finally defected back to the imperium. While he does cooperate with the imperials, he's being held prisoner and it is said that he's only being kept alive for the information in his head. Otherwise he'd receive lethal punishment for the type and amount of heresy he commited. Most notable are his hands: unlike the rest of his body, he had all ritual scars removed from his hands.

[Plasmablasts]

In the gaunt's ghost's series, in the novels "bloodpact" and "the fortress" (and some others), there is a character

named Mabbon Etogaur who was an imperial citizen, then became a blood pact cultist, then defected to the sons of sek and finally defected back to the imperium. While he does cooperate with the imperials, he's being held prisoner and it is said that he's only being kept alive for the information in his head. Otherwise he'd receive lethal punishment for the type and amount of heresy he commited. Most notable are his hands: unlike the rest of his body, he had all ritual scars removed from his hands.

He’s the subject of my favourite line from Blood Pact - “Is he a veteran?”

[karden00]

You put them in the front lines.

[Azekai]

I don't like the idea for redemption of those who have given themselves over to chaos... I mean, it's right there in the name: lost and damned. Damned means condemned to suffer eternally. If one has been damned by their actions, they defacto can't be saved.

That's what being damned means.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I think that once a God has claimed your soul, your only choices are continued servitude or Spawn-dom. Once your soul is changed, there's no coming back. 

[Kinstryfe]

I think that once a God has claimed your soul, your only choices are continued servitude or Spawn-dom. Once your soul is changed, there's no coming back.

 

Spawndom is usually earned either by the gods' anger or by being unable to handle their positive attention. I think it would be a lot like Aeldari souls: claimed by Slaanesh unless other measures are taken. So once you've pledged yourself to a god (or chaos in general) I agree that you're tainted and you soul is basically claimed by them. I'd imagine it would be possible to change its destination, but probably extremely difficult and involving either tech to trap it (probably not ideal) or by getting another warp entity to claim, and succeed in claiming, your soul. Basically falling out of chaos.

[Lord_Caerolion]

And how do you think a God is going to react when you start turning your back on it, after everything it did for you?

[Arkangilos]

I don't like the idea for redemption of those who have given themselves over to chaos... I mean, it's right there in the name: lost and damned. Damned means condemned to suffer eternally. If one has been damned by their actions, they defacto can't be saved.

 

That's what being damned means.

But nothing in the word Damned means you cannot be saved before death.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

And how do you think a God is going to react when you start turning your back on it, after everything it did for you?

"You" are one amongst trillions. Unless you're a major mover/shaker like Ahriman, I don't think a god would notice.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, when you're actually marked by the god, they've invested a portion of their power within you. If the god has claimed your soul, you're a "mover/shaker", that's how you got their attention. Once a god has invested favour in you, you belong to it. Your soul is no longer your own, it's an extension of the god.

 

If you're just some random schmo who attended a few cult sermons, half-heartedly chanted along with the others, then yeah, you could probably get out without issue. 

[Jackalwolf]

Well the exorcists last rite of initiation is to be possessed by a demon and get cleansed. There are other examples in which the demonic possession wasn't planned but still reverted (one of the first inquisitors in 30k, Crimson King novella).

 

Having survived this makes you inmune to further possession.

 

Now noone of this cases actively worshipped chaos but were still possessed and dammed and still returned.

 

Sarpedon was the latest chapter master of the Soul Drinkers, he even grew arachnid legs since he was unwittingly corrupted but denied of the corruption and kept fighting chaos worshippers.

 

From a lore standpoint there's nothing that sets in stone that it cannot be reversed or salvation attained. Hell even Horus obtained a measure of redemption when in the last second his suffering was apparent to the Emperor and he destroyed completely his soul, hence uncorrupting him albeit in a very particular way.

 

Also some 30k novellas have one particular Word Bearer that had a change of heart and helped immensely the Imperium. Final fate unknown.

 

If you want to do it, craft a good lore story and be our guest.