Space Wolves fluff pattern emerging

[TiguriusX]

I have done some burst reading of the Space Wolves novels this summer and there is a focus on our Space Wolves and the Burning of Prospero in a few of them.

 

The storyline GW is pushing is not just that the Wolves were "duped" but that they also feel regret and sorrow for it.  It is the catalyst for the change from executioners to defenders of humanity

 

Ashes of Prospero by Gav Thorpe had a "reveal" to modern day wolves that we discussed in this thread

-Njal basically goes to Prospero and rescues a ton of the original 13th and leads them out of the webway into real space.  Wolves who were at Prospero and aware of the chain of command and actual orders etc.  

 

Wolf King by Chris Wraight has Russ focusing on the future of the Space Wolves while his fleet is trapped and hunted by the Alpha Legion.  Russ eventually summons and tests Bjorn with questions.  Bjorn is angry and says " 'we were dupes, my lord.  We were Horus's willing instruments.'  Those were words of death.  The VI legion could endure almost any privation but humiliation, and that was all he offered his liege lord.  Bjorn maintained the gaze-lock with his primarch, never flinching, knowing that Russ could finish him with his bare hands and hardly break a sweat ... 'Well said ,' Russ murmured (p.62).

 

Leman Russ by Chris Wraight has the encounter between Russ and Lion El Jonson.  Parts that apply are thoughts by Leman Russ regarding knowing his purpose and laughing as his brother primarchs carve out kingdoms to rule.  That view of the big picture slowly changes as the novel develops and Russ realizes he may be taking his barbarian facade too far

[Kasper_Hawser]

In regards to the "regret and sorrow" part, I have to disagree. I still get the impression that the Space Wolves of 40K at least, either are unaware or do not care about the circumstances of Prospero anymore. Again, we are not sure. Bjorn certainly was aware of the dupe part, but even he had no regrets over the burning as Magnus had it coming anyway.

 

Very scared to discuss Ashes of Prospero again, so I won't touch on it.

 

while I'm very certain that the Wolves under Logan's leadership are more focused on being defenders of humanity, we have no real way of knowing if this has been progressively the case for the past 10K years. 

[Karack Blackstone]

Fog of war can, and oftentimes does, refer to not only the unknown of the battlefield, but the unknowns of the entirety of a situation, as well.

 

As in, yes, the Wolves were duped. In order to prevent the problem from occurring again, it can be typed up that perhaps to some the Wolves are overcorrecting for their mistake. In this case, far from it; if anything, the only sane solution to never commit such an atrocity upon anyone, let alone someone else that might be put into this situation by say, the big =I= in setting, well...

 

I think the most obvious answer is, "There's no such thing as overcorrecting when lives are on the line every single time someone points and shouts, 'Heretic!' with devout and loyal forces around." Gee, it's like the Night Lords might start a war that way, or something...

[Guest Triszin]

something glanced over

 

Where is Logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves?

 

Robby G wanted to meet grimnar, but was away doing something

 

when cadia fell, the space wolves could only send 2 companies to assist, and implying something grim about where everyone else was.

 

 

 

whats so important, that logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves would be away doing, what could keep them?

 

maybe russ finally dialed fenris and wanted an uber from nurgles garden?

[Karack Blackstone]

something glanced over

 

Where is Logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves?

 

Robby G wanted to meet grimnar, but was away doing something

 

when cadia fell, the space wolves could only send 2 companies to assist, and implying something grim about where everyone else was.

 

 

 

whats so important, that logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves would be away doing, what could keep them?

 

maybe russ finally dialed fenris and wanted an uber from nurgles garden?

 

Likely, the sequence that is known to us outside of the setting as, "The Curse of the Wulfen," and, "The Wrath of Magnus," is what was keeping the majority of the Chapter away.

[Guest Triszin]

 

something glanced over

 

Where is Logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves?

 

Robby G wanted to meet grimnar, but was away doing something

 

when cadia fell, the space wolves could only send 2 companies to assist, and implying something grim about where everyone else was.

 

 

 

whats so important, that logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves would be away doing, what could keep them?

 

maybe russ finally dialed fenris and wanted an uber from nurgles garden?

 

Likely, the sequence that is known to us outside of the setting as, "The Curse of the Wulfen," and, "The Wrath of Magnus," is what was keeping the majority of the Chapter away.

 

I always thought fall of cadia happened after curse of the wulfen? or was it at the exact same time, and thats why more imperium wasnt at cadia?

[Karack Blackstone]

 

 

something glanced over

 

Where is Logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves?

 

Robby G wanted to meet grimnar, but was away doing something

 

when cadia fell, the space wolves could only send 2 companies to assist, and implying something grim about where everyone else was.

 

 

 

whats so important, that logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves would be away doing, what could keep them?

 

maybe russ finally dialed fenris and wanted an uber from nurgles garden?

 

Likely, the sequence that is known to us outside of the setting as, "The Curse of the Wulfen," and, "The Wrath of Magnus," is what was keeping the majority of the Chapter away.

 

I always thought fall of cadia happened after curse of the wulfen? or was it at the exact same time, and thats why more imperium wasnt at cadia?

 

 

This, while no means the truth, appears to be the sequence of events, from a fluff perspective:

 

- Curse of the Wulfen

- Fall of Cadia

- Wrath of Magnus

 

Again, I could be wrong; still, if this is right, it does at least seem to align with the most likely and realistic sequence of how the events played out.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

This, while no means the truth, appears to be the sequence of events, from a fluff perspective:

 

- Curse of the Wulfen

- Fall of Cadia

- Wrath of Magnus

 

Again, I could be wrong; still, if this is right, it does at least seem to align with the most likely and realistic sequence of how the events played out.

 

Pretty sure that's wrong, and both parts of Warzone Fenris happen before Gathering Storm. It has to be this way because of the SW presence at Cadia. Both the Firehowlers (that's Sven's Company right?) and the Ironwolves were at both Fenris and Cadia, and Egil Ironwolf dies on Fenris, and his replacement leads what's left of his men to Cadia. So Cadia must have happened after Warzone Fenris.

[hammer grimblood]

Cadia and Gathering Storm happened after Warzone Fenris brothers. In one of the codexes, Grimnar is there but no longer holds the title of Supreme Commander which he did hold in several of the older codexes. The SW fluff was pretty mismatched, if I recall, in the Gathering Storm books however I think it was just the Ironwolves and Firehowlers that were actually at Cadia for some weird reason. The Fenris books even end with Grimnar emptying the Fang and charging for Cadia. 

This is off the top of my head so I could be mistaken.

[Guest]

I'm gathering storms, all of them are there. However the Ironwolves and Firehowlers were wiped out to the man.

 

Warzone Fenris which includes Curse of the Wulfen followed by Wrath of Magnus comes before Gathering Storms, which includes Fall of Cadia and the rest of the story dealing with Eldar and Roboute.

After warzone fenris, Grimnar had a vision of Russ telling Grimnar to go to Cadia and he does so with all haste leaving the Fang empty. There was also mention of a massive grey warship above Cadia which started rumors it could be the Hrafnkel. In Dark Imperium we know the SW's are there helping out. However Bjarn, a SW Primaris is told that the SW Primaris group are not going to Fenris after he hears the SW chapter is leaving. We do not know if the SW know about the Primaris SW or not, it never directly mentions it. We skip ahead to Ashes of Prospero where most of the companies are away helping with various missions. It doesn't mention the SW have Primaris in their ranks yet. However Njal returns with the rest of the 13th. A quick skim and I can't see how many of the 13th, but it must be significant as they are utilizing a thunderhawk, a mammoth, and several Spartans.

[Karack Blackstone]

I'm gathering storms, all of them are there. However the Ironwolves and Firehowlers were wiped out to the man.

 

Warzone Fenris which includes Curse of the Wulfen followed by Wrath of Magnus comes before Gathering Storms, which includes Fall of Cadia and the rest of the story dealing with Eldar and Roboute.

After warzone fenris, Grimnar had a vision of Russ telling Grimnar to go to Cadia and he does so with all haste leaving the Fang empty. There was also mention of a massive grey warship above Cadia which started rumors it could be the Hrafnkel. In Dark Imperium we know the SW's are there helping out. However Bjarn, a SW Primaris is told that the SW Primaris group are not going to Fenris after he hears the SW chapter is leaving. We do not know if the SW know about the Primaris SW or not, it never directly mentions it. We skip ahead to Ashes of Prospero where most of the companies are away helping with various missions. It doesn't mention the SW have Primaris in their ranks yet. However Njal returns with the rest of the 13th. A quick skim and I can't see how many of the 13th, but it must be significant as they are utilizing a thunderhawk, a mammoth, and several Spartans.

 

Wait.

 

Um, last I checked, Battle of the Fang quite clearly showed that leaving the Fang empty to be a very BAD idea...

 

I really wish the fluff writers would do their homework better. I will also endeavor to improve myself, in light of this comment.

[Guest]

Well it's occupied again and doesn't seem anything happened. So it's all good?

[spacepup]

Well with the regrettable additions of the Ordos and members from other chapters The Fang isn't technically empty.

[Dantay VI]

So the Primaris mentioned in Ashes of Prospero were not the Wolfspear or Space Wolves reinforcements?

[Guest]

So the Primaris mentioned in Ashes of Prospero were not the Wolfspear or Space Wolves reinforcements?

Ultramarine.

 

There was a third, clad in the primary-blue plate and icons of the Ultramarines Chapter. The outsider – or utlander as the Fenrisians would say – was a giant among giants. Logan Grimnar in full battleplate was no meagre sight, but the Son of Macragge that stood next to him was even larger.

[VIth]

I'm gathering storms, all of them are there. However the Ironwolves and Firehowlers were wiped out to the man.

Warzone Fenris which includes Curse of the Wulfen followed by Wrath of Magnus comes before Gathering Storms, which includes Fall of Cadia and the rest of the story dealing with Eldar and Roboute.

After warzone fenris, Grimnar had a vision of Russ telling Grimnar to go to Cadia and he does so with all haste leaving the Fang empty. There was also mention of a massive grey warship above Cadia which started rumors it could be the Hrafnkel. In Dark Imperium we know the SW's are there helping out. However Bjarn, a SW Primaris is told that the SW Primaris group are not going to Fenris after he hears the SW chapter is leaving. We do not know if the SW know about the Primaris SW or not, it never directly mentions it. We skip ahead to Ashes of Prospero where most of the companies are away helping with various missions. It doesn't mention the SW have Primaris in their ranks yet. However Njal returns with the rest of the 13th. A quick skim and I can't see how many of the 13th, but it must be significant as they are utilizing a thunderhawk, a mammoth, and several Spartans.

While I believe the Firehowlers were wiped out to a man, I don’t believe the remnants of the Iron Wolves necessarily were. They likely were because they weren’t explicitly mentioned in the bands of survivors who fled Cadia, but it still isn’t as clear cut as the Firehowlers who delay the Chaos fleet with their sacrifice.

 

Speaking of lack of consistency... in the Ragnar Blackmane novel from a couple years ago, he and his company were fighting in tunnels beneath the surface of Cadia. That was never addressed in Fall of Cadia.

[Guest]

 

I'm gathering storms, all of them are there. However the Ironwolves and Firehowlers were wiped out to the man.

Warzone Fenris which includes Curse of the Wulfen followed by Wrath of Magnus comes before Gathering Storms, which includes Fall of Cadia and the rest of the story dealing with Eldar and Roboute.

After warzone fenris, Grimnar had a vision of Russ telling Grimnar to go to Cadia and he does so with all haste leaving the Fang empty. There was also mention of a massive grey warship above Cadia which started rumors it could be the Hrafnkel. In Dark Imperium we know the SW's are there helping out. However Bjarn, a SW Primaris is told that the SW Primaris group are not going to Fenris after he hears the SW chapter is leaving. We do not know if the SW know about the Primaris SW or not, it never directly mentions it. We skip ahead to Ashes of Prospero where most of the companies are away helping with various missions. It doesn't mention the SW have Primaris in their ranks yet. However Njal returns with the rest of the 13th. A quick skim and I can't see how many of the 13th, but it must be significant as they are utilizing a thunderhawk, a mammoth, and several Spartans.

While I believe the Firehowlers were wiped out to a man, I don’t believe the remnants of the Iron Wolves necessarily were. They likely were because they weren’t explicitly mentioned in the bands of survivors who fled Cadia, but it still isn’t as clear cut as the Firehowlers who delay the Chaos fleet with their sacrifice.

Speaking of lack of consistency... in the Ragnar Blackmane novel from a couple years ago, he and his company were fighting in tunnels beneath the surface of Cadia. That was never addressed in Fall of Cadia.

Ragnar novel was during the 13th crusade which was retconned for this new 13th crusade. Same as Grimnar no longer leading the defense.

 

As for the Ironwolves, I would have to look up to confirm, but I believe they turned Wulfen in the tunnels below Cadia where the pylons were. They were credited for allowing the Admech to escape before the tunnels fell upon them and the heretics. This is how we got Admech on our side about protecting the Wulfen.

[PeteySödes]

That retcon is probably the biggest reason it’s hard for me to truly engage with the new fast moving story. That EoT campaign was so cool and still one of the highlights of my 40k “career”.

 

I don’t think it would have been hard to leave it in. It smells of some executive

 

“Then Abbadon attack’s in the suuuper ominous sounding 13th Black crusade!

Oooh Sir, we did that actually in a global campaign, there was a whole codex.

What? No I would remember that!

I assure you Sir, the players reported games like the Albion campaign. We can just call it something equally ominous!

Your fired! You, new hypothetical exec guy, make this go away...

[Guest Triszin]

Actually I view abadon destroying cadia as the result of the 40k narrative campaign for the 13th black crusade, after all, forces of chaos won that campaign

[Kasper_Hawser]

Sigh, i actually given up making sense of the Vlka's involvement during the 13th crusade, or giving any sort of pride. Even the Fireholwers and Ironwolves appearance in Gathering Storm was so dismally represented, almost like a cameo appearance before they all died. No more Grimnar being supreme commander by sheer baddassery and reputation either. The Space Wolves being fully deployed during the 13th Crusade leaving the Fang almost empty also doesn't jive into the story....

 

.... then again, New 52 of DC is worse, so can't beat that.

 

For my part, I've resigned to the Wolves being shoved to the backseat of all SM storylines unless it is to be the punching bag of the Thousand Sons or other "villains of the week".

[bluescope]

 

 

something glanced over

 

Where is Logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves?

 

Robby G wanted to meet grimnar, but was away doing something

 

when cadia fell, the space wolves could only send 2 companies to assist, and implying something grim about where everyone else was.

 

 

 

whats so important, that logan grimnar and the bulk of the wolves would be away doing, what could keep them?

 

maybe russ finally dialed fenris and wanted an uber from nurgles garden?

 

Likely, the sequence that is known to us outside of the setting as, "The Curse of the Wulfen," and, "The Wrath of Magnus," is what was keeping the majority of the Chapter away.

 

I always thought fall of cadia happened after curse of the wulfen? or was it at the exact same time, and thats why more imperium wasnt at cadia?

 

 

Fall of Cadia happened after Fenris War Zone. At the end of Wrath of Magnus, Logan heard the crisis of Cadia and assembled the fleet. It's same as old timeline of 13th Black Crusader.

 

It seems GW has changed the writing outline before gathering storm. "Elements of every great company" was turned into only two great company.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Regardless, it seems the Space Wolves were neutered in Wrath of Magnus so as not to have anymore big impact on Cadia.

[Guest Triszin]

actually, in regards to Fall of Cadia.

 

the only mentioned wolves are

 

Firehowlers

Ironwolves

An ancient battel barge

-a ancient looking space wolf ship with markings of the wolves from the heresy, markings of that of the 13th co

----that was seemingly deploying wulfen to protect imperial outposts from being overrun.

 

When a marine asked the leader of the iron wolves where grimnar, where the rest of the wolves were

- the iron wolf lord responded be glaring at him, in a dark silent mood

 

considering the only active ship on cadia was the firehowlers capital ship, that means the wolves, 10 companies were not present in the cadia system when it fell

[TiguriusX]

Codex drops usually include an update to fluff right?

 

I would bet money we get mind blowing fluff updates including:

(1) Where's Waldo/Logan;

(2) The Primaris question;

(3) Public awareness regarding Wulfen status to the Imperium (filthy mutants or weapon against chaos) and

(4) Return of the 13th and/or Russ himself

[Kasper_Hawser]

Codex drops usually include an update to fluff right?

 

I would bet money we get mind blowing fluff updates including:

(1) Where's Waldo/Logan;

(2) The Primaris question;

(3) Public awareness regarding Wulfen status to the Imperium (filthy mutants or weapon against chaos) and

(4) Return of the 13th and/or Russ himself

 

We can only hope for just ONE of the above to be done correctly or in a palatable manner. Problem is the 13th have already returned piecemeal in COTW. I'm guessing you mean the rest of the non-wulfen legionaires.