Space Wolves fluff pattern emerging

[Guest]

 

Codex drops usually include an update to fluff right?

 

I would bet money we get mind blowing fluff updates including:

(1) Where's Waldo/Logan;

(2) The Primaris question;

(3) Public awareness regarding Wulfen status to the Imperium (filthy mutants or weapon against chaos) and

(4) Return of the 13th and/or Russ himself

 

 

We can only hope for just ONE of the above to be done correctly or in a palatable manner. Problem is the 13th have already returned piecemeal in COTW. I'm guessing you mean the rest of the non-wulfen legionaires.

Not all the 13th returned as Wulfen only those released from Magnus' webway. I believe he means the greater portion of the 13th that was released from Prospero by Njal.

[Guest Triszin]

I forgot whom said it,but age staffer said only the wulfen of the 13th were getting out during wrath of Magnus, that the 13th that hadn't turned were still away( which we now get them back after the events of prospero ashes)

[TiguriusX]

I forgot whom said it,but age staffer said only the wulfen of the 13th were getting out during wrath of Magnus, that the 13th that hadn't turned were still away( which we now get them back after the events of prospero ashes)

 

Put my response in spoiler just in case people haven't read novels

 

My understanding from the reading I did is that the wulfen were being intentionally released due to Magnus and his overly complicated tzeencth plotting

 

A significant amount of the rest of the 13th under Bulveye (i.e., normal marines including their heresy era equipment ranging from weapons to vehicles) were just recovered by Njal in Ashes of Prospero

 

If GW really wants to push the narrative along you now have 2 major entities (Bobby G and the return of the 13th) who look at the modern empire and say are you fools doing

 

There could be a big pushback against the worship of the emperor as a god-like figure and lack of technological understanding etc.  

 

Space Wolves are the anti-authoritarian chapter already and it would make perfect sense for them to lead a movement like this (to clarify they aren't going renegade just taking the blinders off).

 

If the SW codex was planned for last intentionally to take all of this into account it could be amazingly well done

 

Space Wolves could potentially get unique units/gear/vehicles or maybe just special rules to represent all of that

 

That is what I was referring to in my prior post about the return of the 13th

 

[Lord Ragnarok]

Tigerius have you read wolfsbane? Lots of discussions of Greg retiring following the orders to attack magnus but being at peace with it because of what he was doing. Also good discussions of space wolves being hypocrites. There is also some reveals on what the emperor and malcador thought about it.

 

When I first read prospero burns I knew there was a juxtaposition being created between being absolutely loyal to all orders and the anti authoritarian “we’ll decide want we want to do” 40k version of the wolves.

[Dantay VI]

Bear in mind the Wolves do not worship the emperor as a god, even if the wider imperium does

 

The 13th still believe theselves to be the executioners and were not around for the fundamental shift that the legion took when it became a chapter.

 

I believe in the absence they would accept Guillemann as he is the closest to an Alpha (being a primarch and brother to Russ), however there will be tension between the old and new wolves as they both have very different visions and directions of how they see the imperium at large.

 

So while both are of Fenris, they are very different animals so to speak

[TiguriusX]

Tigerius have you read wolfsbane? Lots of discussions of Greg retiring following the orders to attack magnus but being at peace with it because of what he was doing. Also good discussions of space wolves being hypocrites. There is also some reveals on what the emperor and malcador thought about it.

 

When I first read prospero burns I knew there was a juxtaposition being created between being absolutely loyal to all orders and the anti authoritarian “we’ll decide want we want to do” 40k version of the wolves.

 

I read wolfsbane this summer as well but plan to do a 2nd reading again 

 

The most recent one I read was Wolf King and the Alaxxes campaign so that is more fresh in my mind

[Gherrick]

I'm still at a loss on how GW can properly integrate the primaris into SW. Most need at least access to chainswords and a power weapon/plasma pistol. The elite units need access to SW-unique weaponry, especially the frost weapons.

 

I hope with CA 2018 all chapters of space marines get a massive points drop, especially for melee weapons.

[Guest]

I don't think Primaris are meant to integrate with any chapter but to show the changes coming to all Space Marines. Yes some performance well with certain chapters, but never integrate fully.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I'm still at a loss on how GW can properly integrate the primaris into SW. Most need at least access to chainswords and a power weapon/plasma pistol. The elite units need access to SW-unique weaponry, especially the frost weapons.

 

I hope with CA 2018 all chapters of space marines get a massive points drop, especially for melee weapons.

 

At bare minimum, give them all chainswords, every single one of them from Inceptors to Intercessors to Aggressors. At best, let them take Grey hunter equipment, although this is unlikely as it'll make Grey Hunters obsolete.

 

Or..... oh good LORD, Primaris riding thunderwolves. Then again, perhaps I also hate the current TWC because the marines look positively puny in their saddles. the larger Primaris..... nah, may have to scale up the TWC as well which is fine by me, since I don't like the current TWC scuplts as well.

 

Just realised that is Out of topic, so I'll leave the upcoming codex changes now.

 

For Primaris integration, I think it'll be similar to the Blood Angels, in the sense that the Primaris SEEM FINE so far, but by the current Wolf Codex (as and when it pops up, I've almost given up hope at this point), despite all of Cawl's assurances, the mark of the wulfen will begin to manifest, especially when fighting alongside actual wulfen who are well known to have an aura which can cause normal astartes to BECOME Wulfen. I won't say mutate, because there is a chance that the Wulfen effect is intentional by the Emperor or Russ. I've heard from Phil Kelly's War of Secrets Dark Angels, that even within that paranoid chapter, the Primaris skills are recognised and contingencies are being prepared to use primaris in investigating the Fallen HUNTING HERETIC ASTARTES WHO DRESS LIKE 30K ASTARTES. lol, even I am using that meme.

 

Anyway, integration is inevitable, I just want it done properly and palatable. Hopefully the mighty Chris Wright will write something about it. At least if Chris screws it up, it won't be so bad, or perhaps, we are used to Chris Wright's inevitable gaffs in fluff, although those are few and far in between. Basically I would like to read about :

 

1) How the Guilliman trained Primaris integrate the Primarch warfare teachings with the current Fenrisian warfare structure. remember that the way Guilliman trains his marines are also as skilled administrators in addition to warfare. (I think, this was the case in 30K, not sure in 40K after he woke up) It is kind of the Ultramarines stick to conquer and leave behind a SUSTAINABLE system or sector of space, rather than just go in, kill the enemy and leave. LOL, suddenly I have an image of a Space Wolf primaris doing accounting for the sector he just conquered.

2) Whether any of the space Wolves have been "upgraded". Actually, does anyone know if ANY existing Astartes, no matter how small the character, has been upgraded? GW said they could but so far I don't see that appearing in fluff

3) How the Primaris will deal with the Wulfen, either the actual Wulfen, or the effect of the Mark of the Wulfen.

4) If Russ comes back, will he validate the Primaris work.

 

Updated 10 seconds after I posted:

Got a bit of rumor of Primaris bikers to be released later this year. Well, not the dedicated CC unit I wanted, but at least they'll be FAAAAAAAASSSSSSTTTTTT! And most of my characters are on bikes already.

 

Take this rumor with lots of salt though. Bols isn't right much of the time.

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/40k-rumors-will-we-be-seeing-primaris-bikers-later-this-year.html

[Karhedron]

2) Whether any of the space Wolves have been "upgraded". Actually, does anyone know if ANY existing Astartes, no matter how small the character, has been upgraded? GW said they could but so far I don't see that appearing in fluff

No existing characters have been upgraded and there has been nothing in the fluff to indicate that it is even possible for a regular Marine to "Primarised".

 

IIRC someone on FB made a comment along the lines of upgrading characters which people seized on to mean regular Marines could be upgraded. Btu I think he was just talking about HQ options generally so we now see Primaris versions of Captains, Lts, Apothecaries and Librarians.

[Guest]

ADB has stated that the writers have been not to tell anything about marine upgrading to Primaris if it is possible or not. It could be narrative why they do this as a big surprise or it could be they are testing the market to see if Primaris are going to be welcomed enough to do so.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Just curious, where do you guys normally get the comments direct from Black Library authors? they're respective facebook pages?

[Guest]

Just curious, where do you guys normally get the comments direct from Black Library authors? they're respective facebook pages?

FB/Twitter/reddit. Normally reddit links to the other two for me.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

A D-B is fairly active down on the Black Library subforun here and well

[Kasper_Hawser]

Yeah I was actually shocked that he posted on one of my topics, although wasn't sure if it was really him.

[Karack Blackstone]

Yeah I was actually shocked that he posted on one of my topics, although wasn't sure if it was really him.

 

It is.

 

He's actually rather prolific on these forums.

 

The best part is he is honestly as much of a fan and hobbyist as the rest of us. Facebook has a rather devout following of him, and that includes his efforts to work on models and his own unique SM Chapter.

 

Sadly, if I recall correctly, he has for the most part sworn off of the Fang; this was due to the way some of the posters he was in a debate thread with were convinced the Wolves are the single most dangerous Legion/Chapter ever. To be fair, every single Legion and therefore eventual Chapter ends up at the exact same statline; the rub is how each gets there...

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Yeah I was actually shocked that he posted on one of my topics, although wasn't sure if it was really him.

 

It is.

 

He's actually rather prolific on these forums.

 

The best part is he is honestly as much of a fan and hobbyist as the rest of us. Facebook has a rather devout following of him, and that includes his efforts to work on models and his own unique SM Chapter.

 

Sadly, if I recall correctly, he has for the most part sworn off of the Fang; this was due to the way some of the posters he was in a debate thread with were convinced the Wolves are the single most dangerous Legion/Chapter ever. To be fair, every single Legion and therefore eventual Chapter ends up at the exact same statline; the rub is how each gets there...

 

 

Gah, somehow I can believe that can happen, that our more overzealous Space Wolves fans (which at times, we ourselves can be over passionate ourselves), somehow post too strongly about their opinions to the point it turns EVERYONE off, and we're left with a bad reputation for the Space wolves fandom as a whole.

 

God I hope that particular thread that turned him off wasn't my thread, where I was discussing the complexities of Leman Russ quite some time ago, which I hoped to open people more to the idea that the Wolf King wasn't just a stupid hateful mutt of a primarch.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

 

Yeah I was actually shocked that he posted on one of my topics, although wasn't sure if it was really him.

 

It is.

 

He's actually rather prolific on these forums.

 

The best part is he is honestly as much of a fan and hobbyist as the rest of us. Facebook has a rather devout following of him, and that includes his efforts to work on models and his own unique SM Chapter.

 

Sadly, if I recall correctly, he has for the most part sworn off of the Fang; this was due to the way some of the posters he was in a debate thread with were convinced the Wolves are the single most dangerous Legion/Chapter ever. To be fair, every single Legion and therefore eventual Chapter ends up at the exact same statline; the rub is how each gets there...

 

 

Gah, somehow I can believe that can happen, that our more overzealous Space Wolves fans (which at times, we ourselves can be over passionate ourselves), somehow post too strongly about their opinions to the point it turns EVERYONE off, and we're left with a bad reputation for the Space wolves fandom as a whole.

 

God I hope that particular thread that turned him off wasn't my thread, where I was discussing the complexities of Leman Russ quite some time ago, which I hoped to open people more to the idea that the Wolf King wasn't just a stupid hateful mutt of a primarch.

 

 

I could dive for the thread in question, however, I'm not sure that would be constructive enough to merit the effort.

 

As far as ADB, he is pretty chill, overall. As far as things go, anyone that thinks Russ is just a chomping at the bit nutter mutt is not aware of what his effort to reforge his Legion after Prospero was all about, in the book, "Wolf King." Still, some people tend to get confirmation bias whenever they hear about any concept that does not jibe with their preconceived notions in life.

 

As far as convincing others about the Wolves not being thoughtless brutes, the problem is more on the somewhat inconsistent and often biased by the official fluff perspective that is shown in regards to the VIth Legion. Though, I'm currently wondering if it's some measure of blowback of Wolves fans having made, "Demands," over the years, but, to type it, correlation is not causation.

 

Time will tell.