ShibeKing Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I'm finally taking the plunge towards painting my army of unpainted marines. Before I do so I want to make sure I'm picking the right chapter and would like a good page that summarizes play styles and tactics. (I like all of the fluff so far so I can't just go by that) Is 1d4chan the best place for that? It's what comes up immediately when I search for tactics and summaries. It just seems inconsistent with the quality. Some pages are really well done while others seem like the editors are fighting with each other in the middle of the page. I don't know enough about the game to discern whether or not the site has any merit. Thanks for your time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1d4chan is pretty much the best place to get a quick overview. For more detailed informations you gotta read the various chapter specific threads in forums like this. Yeah the quality of 1d4chan is inconsistent. That's because literally everybody can change articles and writes things however he wants. However that's also the reason why it still works out. If someone writes some crap then 5 others notice and correct it quickly ... and sometimes it turns into a small-ish forum-like argument. Typical 4chan stuff. ;) Since you already found the 1d4chan articles I won't bother linking them here. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5121657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 i agree forums like this are best. be sure to read and watch battle reports as well, soak up as much information as you can and discard what you don't need like bruce lee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5121663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I wouldn't pay too much attention to 1d4 chan. Half of the stuff seems to be written by sexual violence obsessed teenagers and their tactics and overviews are outdated or wrong in a lot of instances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5121665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 So before we deep dive individual chapters, here's my question. Are you looking at doing *just* Codex Space Marines chapters, or do you want opinions on Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and the Deathwatch too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5121806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I would suggest making your own Chapter and then experiment with different Chapter Tactis. This means you can play what you want and if the meta changes or there is a new dex you don’t have to worry about you Chapter getting nerfed into the ground. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5121880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 So before we deep dive individual chapters, here's my question. Are you looking at doing *just* Codex Space Marines chapters, or do you want opinions on Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and the Deathwatch too? It's pretty lame, but I love all of the chapters and am having a hard time choosing just one or two. The only one I won't play is Space Wolves and that's because I know a few people with Space Wolves armies already. I've dabbled with making my own chapter but results have been horrid and I've grown to just dislike successors compared to the originals. I may just have to deal with making a successor so I can be done with this indecision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5121958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 In which cas I would direct you to the Liber Astartes sub forum here on the BnC. It's devoted to people building a solid, characterful, personal chapter. That being said, for rules and playstyle, is there any particular concept that tickles your fancy? Stealthy infantry? Close assault? Mechanized? Gunline? Airmobile? Bikes? This not only informs some of your fan chapter's fluff but allows us to help push you towards a specific chapter's rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 In which cas I would direct you to the Liber Astartes sub forum here on the BnC. It's devoted to people building a solid, characterful, personal chapter. That being said, for rules and playstyle, is there any particular concept that tickles your fancy? Stealthy infantry? Close assault? Mechanized? Gunline? Airmobile? Bikes? This not only informs some of your fan chapter's fluff but allows us to help push you towards a specific chapter's rules. I haven't figured that out yet. Those all sound like really attractive choices with the exception of the bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagashnee Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1d4 chan is grand for a basic and colourful overview, but not the most accurate or in depth view, tho it does pay attention to much of the older lore which can be a real gem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Off the wall suggestion: a Crusade army. It sounds like a Templar army but it’s not ... but it could be. I took an army like this to Chicago Gamesday back in 5the edition. It easy easy to do when playing MSU style and my opponents loved it. I used Vanilla rules and was 50/50 with wins and losses but you could play it same as DIY and I don’t foresee any issues. Each unit is painted as a different Chapter. I had Salamander and Crimson Fist Tactical squads. Imperial Fist Devestators. Raven Guard and Exorcist Attack squads. I had corresponding support vehicles (Dreadnoughts and Landspeeders painted in one of the units colors ie a Crimson Fist Dreadnought or an Imperial Fist Landspeeder. Vaguely remember a Exorcist HQ with Jump Pack. This way you can play the army with any of the Soace Marine rules ... I would include Blood and Dark Angel in that list ... but getting the chance to paint all the Chapters that catch your fancy, never burning out on one paint scheme. I kind of wish I had revisited this idea when I started getting back into the game this year because of the Primaris models ... but I had went with my special snowflake DIY color pattern instead. :) Good Luck choosing a named Chapter. Can’t seem to ever do it myself ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I wanted to do something similar to Inquisitor Dracos, but the idea I had was to have a Dark Angels crusade. Since the Dark Angels work closely with their successors I wanted to have Azreal leading a whole bunch of units from different Dark Angels successors. I still need to get around to doing that project, I think it would look pretty cool! A crusade army could be a lot of fun, and it would let you paint whatever you wanted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 The crusade chapter does sound tempting, but a unified look also has its perks. After reading a lot of threads and 40k wiki entries, I've narrowed down my choices to Deathwatch, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Deathwatch because black armor is the best and they seem to have a special forces vibe. Blood Angels because a vicious close assault army sounds great. Dark Angels just because their flyers look cool and their love of plasma. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I much prefer a unified look and it's more pleasing to see on the tabletop. Death Watch are really cool imo. Do you plan to focus on Primaris or old Marines? Dark Angels and Death Watch rules work better with Primaris, Death Watch especially. With considering depending on what models you like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Since I'm new I was just going to go with Primaris. The lack of CC Primaris is disappointing right now so I guess I would be better off not doing Blood Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 If you want Primaris, go Dark Angels. The army is practically built for them. Compared to competing marine chapters, Dark Angels have better access to invuln saves, have a very powerful stratagem in Weapons From The Dark Age, and an army wide captain's reroll on stationary units. Dark Angels have access to two kinds of invuln saves that most chapters do not. The First one is Jink--when a Ravenwing unit advances, it gets a 4++ invuln save. Now that doesn't sound great, but on Black Knights have an assault weapon, so they can still shoot. Speed of the Raven allows one unit that advanced to still shoot and charge normally. Jink is also a great way to protect your Darkshroud, which you absolutely want to run in everything but small games. It's a great deterrent against shooting, and will often draw enemy fire in an effort to get rid of its debuff...the 4++ in addition to the 9 wounds and T6 means it will stick around a lot longer. The other invuln save, and honestly the big one right now, is Azrael, who gives any infantry or bikere model (model, not unit) a 4++ invuln save if they are within 6 inches of him. This is a lot better than it sounds, because even though it means you're generally going to be castling with a lot of infantry, units like Hellblasters and Aggressors can bring that awesome firepower they have to bear much more safely than any other army. Yes, we still have no transport options for them, but anyone that's played or played against Custodes will vouch that blanket invuln saves like this can keep your guys alive long enough to do relevant damage...especially since you'll want to park your Darkshroud next to Azrael, and evoke the -1 to hit as well. Even things like Inceptor Squads can get very annoying when you can huddle them around Azrael, and they each have 2 wounds, and a 4++ invuln. Weapons from the Dark Age is scary. It allows you to either safely deal 2 damage on mid sized stuff, or you can overcharge as well and do 3 damage. At 3 damage a pop, plasma can easily threaten vehicles, and even knights, while still also being good at smaller targets and squads. In addition, since you generally get more shots with plasma, you're much, much better against invuln saves. Grim Resolve is good, but for different reasons in a given army. It can make more casual lists running long range dreadnoughts or devastators fairly effective since they can sit back and reroll those ones. It may be the captain's ability, but not needing a babysitting HQ all the time is wonderful, and greatly reduces the need to HQ tax yourself if you want to give everyone that reroll. However, the tactic really shines in primaris squads...namely Hellblasters, or Inceptors with plasma. Weapons from the Dark Age benefits from larger squads, so the ability to take a max size squad with impunity is very strong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Death Watch are easy to paint and pretty good on the tabletop. They have the best Primaris marine rules, imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Death Watch are easy to paint and pretty good on the tabletop. They have the best Primaris marine rules. I'm gonna challenge that. From what I understand, SIA is shining the most with Storm Bolters, which is more of a standard veteran thing, right? Now to be fair, Hellfire Rounds on Storm Bolters sounds insane, but it's not like you can use it on Aggressors to crack the game wide open. I guess it would be annoying on Inceptors. The DA units and rules though do a lot to protect the Primaris that you're probably not throwing in your transport, or Azrael does, at least. I stand by that 4++ save. 8th Edition's split fire rule makes the DA buffs even more scary for a 10 man hellblaster squad, since you can basically cripple or kill two rhino chassis mathematically with the Azrael and Lieutenant rerolls--and I'm talking at range, not rapid fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 @Basteala you made Dark Angels sound amazing. I love the look of the Plasma Incinerators and a faction that can boost their destructive output is almost too good to be true. They seem to be the best choice for a First Founding Chapter that's focused on mostly shooting. The only turn offs are the focus on Biker units (which I loathe the look of) and the fluff on the Fallen which I find to be very uninteresting. Am I shooting myself in the foot by just saying piss off to biker units?@Ihagu I will definitely be making a Deathwatch army. Everything I read about them has been enjoyable so far. I just need a First Founding chapter to collect as well now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Since I'm new I was just going to go with Primaris. The lack of CC Primaris is disappointing right now so I guess I would be better off not doing Blood Angels. If you don't plan to play in a super competetive meta then Blood Angels Primaris are fine. I'm playing them myself and while I'm really looking forward to a proper melee unit the +1 to wound boost Intercessors&Co get is still really good. Keep in mind that any Primaris has as many base attacks as a veteran or an assault marine with chainsword. The only thing they're lacking is weapons with proper AP and strength modificator. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Since I'm new I was just going to go with Primaris. The lack of CC Primaris is disappointing right now so I guess I would be better off not doing Blood Angels. If you don't plan to play in a super competetive meta then Blood Angels Primaris are fine. I'm playing them myself and while I'm really looking forward to a proper melee unit the +1 to wound boost Intercessors&Co get is still really good. Keep in mind that any Primaris has as many base attacks as a veteran or an assault marine with chainsword. The only thing they're lacking is weapons with proper AP and strength modificator. Good point. I have no desire to play in a tournament environment. I also forget that you don't need a chainsword or power weapon to engage in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 In the end I think it's mainly going to boil down to punchy (BA) vs shooty (DA, Deathwatch). Blood Angels are built to get into melee. Their Chapter Doctrine, Red Thirst, is very strong, but it strictly a melee thing. Deathwatch and DA both get a conditional HQ aura (captain reroll for DA when stationary, DW get LT reroll against a certain unit type). From there, the units and weapons you favor will probably lean you one way or the other, at least from a synergy standpoint. In casual, Intercessors with Red Thirst could be cute, as you have 11 attacks wounding on threes when you charge a tank. However, if you don't charge at all, it's still not great Just like how with Dark Angels, you definitely lose something if you don't go ham with Plasma, long range shooting, or Ravenwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 If we look at it strictly competetively then there are only two choices. Melee -> Blood Angel (won by default because SW aren't there yet); Shooting -> Deathwatch (thanks to SIA). Ravenguard is pretty strong as well due them being able to infiltrate Aggressors tho I think Deathwatch is stronger. However Dark Angels are pretty cool visually as well with their Knight theme and there's always the chance of them getting Deathwing and Ravenwing Primaris eventually as well so you could have green, bone and black Primaris in the same army. Same with Blood Angels and their Sanguinary Guard and Deathcompany (Gold and Black respectively). So in the end it really boils down to a bunch of different things to consider and not just one. - shooty or melee (BA will still be shooty as long as we don't get real melee units to chose from but never more than others) - aesthetics ... this one is a huge factor because it decides how motivated you'll be to actually paint your models - fluff Another argument in favour of BA (need to promote my favourite chapter here a little bit :P ) is that you usually want to be within 15" with Intercessors and Hellblaster for the Rapid fire (only then their weapons do real work) so you get faster in situations you can charge something than you might think. P.S. don't underestimate BA Intercessor Sergeants with Power Sword and Auxiliary Grenade Launcher. Those guys regularly do a lot of work in my army. 3 S4 AP-3 attacks with +1 to-wound and shooting krak grenades at basically anything on the table you want within 30" range is really good for a puny basic troop sergeant lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShibeKing Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Thank you for all the replies! I feel like Marines are really difficult to choose from since they all have a lot of character. When I was thinking of playing Eldar I knew exactly what faction I would play immediately. Same with Tyranids and Necrons. I guess that's why I settled on Marines since I have had so much trouble on deciding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Well yeah Marines have the best developed background in 40k. They're GWs poster boys for a reason. Just be glad that you aren't considering Chaos Marines as well. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348823-space-marine-summaries-and-tactics/#findComment-5122774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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