Wanting Advice for a Casual Army

[Basteala]

So I have a competitive list I'm pretty happy with, but some people at my local game store don't particularly like a competitive list (and admittedly, Codex Marines are fairly weak on the best of days, nevermind with suboptimal lists). For this, I want to make a "B Team". My problem is that I'm really not the best at holding back--or perhaps more accurately, once I know the best way to do something, my mindset leans towards that way...and to do otherwise is ultimately to just throw random stuff together that just isn't that good.

 

I don't know...what do people think are good, playable "mid tier" stuff in our codex? What things in a comp list would still fit in here and what would be too powerful for a casual game?

[Shadowseer]

What's your current competitive list?

[Basteala]

My current competitive list is as follows: 

 

HQ     Batallion

Azarel       --               Lion's Roar, Sword of Secrets                          180

Lieutenant       --         Storm Bolter, Chainsword, Eye of the Unseen  62

 

Elites      

Company Ancient    --   Bolt Pistol, Banner                     63

 

Fast Attack      

Darkshroud     --    Heavy Bolter                                 138

Inceptors (6)  --  24 Plasma Exterminators                    354

Inceptors (3)  --   12 Assault Bolters                     135

 

Heavy Support      
Hellblasters (10)   --   10 Plasma Incinerators                    330

Hellblasters (8)   --    8 Plasma Incinerators                    264

Leviathan Dreadnought  --    2 Stormcannon, 2 Heavy Flamer 309

 

Troops      
Scout Squad  --  Bolter                                55

Scout Squad  --  Bolter                                55

Scout Squad  --  Bolter                                55

[Knight Angels]

lots of terminators... serious, you should take what u think looks cool.

 

what models do you have?

[Basteala]

I've been collecting since 3rd ed, so I have most things available, aside from Heavy Support tanks due to those mostly being older and in badly painted Ultrasmurf colors. I've most of the Deathwing and Ravenwing staples, as well as battle company + Dreads, Whirlwind, and Primaris support.

 

I'm not a big fan of termis unless I go three wing with this list though. Terminators in 8th strike me as "bad" more than casual.

[MaxB]

You could drop the plasma inceptors for Black Knights? Similar damage output but you have to start them on the field - giving your opponent a chance to have a crack at them.

 

You could switch out one the Hellblaster squads for a Predator or some DW Terms or Tac Squads? Or anything really (Vets, Dread) depending on what you want to try out or how much you want to handicap yourself.

 

I guess these suggestions just aim to handicap your current list a bit without a full list re-write?

[sneakybamsen]

Basteala, I often run into the opposite problem. When I play at our events at the club, I usually end up with a subpar list, as most of the stuff I have painted are units that aren't that useful in 8th (though I am in process of somewhat ammending that). There's a 1750 event in the middle of august, and I thought it fitting that I could present something I haven't brought to a cub event before: My hopefully at that time newly painted stormraven (and scouts) from the ETL.

 

Below is an example of what to most people should be a casual list (battalion):

Librarian in TDA with Shroud of Heroes, storm bolter and force staff, Warlord (brilliant strategist) - 130 pts

Sammael in Sableclaw - 216 pts

Scout squad with bolters - 55 pts

Scout squad with bolters and a heavy bolter - 65 pts

Tactical squad - 65 pts

Tactical squad - 65 pts

Deathwing knights - 250 pts

Venerable Dreadnought with twin lascannon and missile launcher - 165 pts

Ravenwing Land Speeder Vengeance with assault cannon - 144 pts

Ravenwing Dark Talon - 200 pts

Stormraven Gunship with twin lascannon, two hurricane bolters and twin heavy bolter - 321 pts

Rhino - 72 pts

It totals at 1748 wysiwyg - I could, if my painted Rhino didn't have it's weapon slots filled with hatches, add a second storm bolter to it, but alas, wysiwyg forbids me :)

 

This is a far from competitive list, but it does have some fun elements. It's not a huge amount of bodies, but doesn't come without some sort of objective grabbing capability. Deathwing knights go into the stormraven with the librarian. Yeah, totaled up, it's 700'ish points, but it's going to be so much fun in that one game where I do get to charge with the knights after having cast righteous repugnance on them. Three game event, so realisticly it should happen once. The tacticals can be assembled in one squad easily without needing to change anything, I cannot remember if two different units can ride the same transport (rhino).

I would have liked to be able to field a darkshroud along with some black knights, but neither is painted, so that will have to wait. That would have meant better utilization of dark talon and sammael, but then that would also beef up the list quite a bit, and the events at the club are casual. I would also have liked a gunline element, but my only painted devastators carry the very expensive grav cannons. Don't really have any painted plasmatastic units, so I'll have to make do without.

 

As you can see, it's far from optimized, and synergy is limited. There is some, but benefits from those that are in place, are not maximized (i.e. limited amount of ravenwing, no shroud, deathwing knights with only a librarian). A few decent to good units (sammael, dark talon for instance, but not what I'd call no-brainers, except for perhaps the scouts?)

 

All that said, it's weird to me you that don't like terminators, but each to his own, I guess. I really like them for the fluff and coolness, same with dreadnoughts, which is why I play them at this level.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense with regards to your canondrum.

 

Regards

Sneaky

[PhilB]

Maybe something more mechanised could be refreshing for you while being more casual?

 

Say a mechanised demi-co with some DWKs in a Landraider with supporting characters;

3 x 10 man Tactical Squads in Rhinos/or 5 man in Razorbacks.

A squad of Assault Marines with jump packs - substitute for regular Ravenwing Bikes if you want to go tri-wing.

A squad of Devastators with a Ven. Dreadnought & Lt. to anchor the back field.

5 Deathwing Knights with any flavour of supporting characters (I'd go with Asmodai as the warlord for rule of cool) & a Landraider Crusader.

Maybe a jump character to support your Assault Marines or a Landspeeder or Sammael or a Talonmaster to support your bike squad.

I'm sure you could massage that into 2,000 points.

[stuka06]

Maybe something more mechanised could be refreshing for you while being more casual?

 

Say a mechanised demi-co with some DWKs in a Landraider with supporting characters;

3 x 10 man Tactical Squads in Rhinos/or 5 man in Razorbacks.

A squad of Assault Marines with jump packs - substitute for regular Ravenwing Bikes if you want to go tri-wing.

A squad of Devastators with a Ven. Dreadnought & Lt. to anchor the back field.

5 Deathwing Knights with any flavour of supporting characters (I'd go with Asmodai as the warlord for rule of cool) & a Landraider Crusader.

Maybe a jump character to support your Assault Marines or a Landspeeder or Sammael or a Talonmaster to support your bike squad.

I'm sure you could massage that into 2,000 points.

 

To piggyback on this format.

I've liked the idea in 7th to field a Battle/Demi company.

3/6 Battle line troops

1/2 Close Support

1/2 Fire Support

with associated officers and battlefield support (transport tanks, battle tanks, ravenwing, etc.)

 

This is isn't really strong, but you still have to build an army in a format that keeps you from just picking the strongest units with no counter weight.

[sneakybamsen]

Stukas idea is a solid one. Forcing yourself to build lists based on a specific model that don't include strong choices or auto-takes is a very viable solution.

 

As another round of inspirational input, I decided to change my list for the event in august I'll be running. 8 players 3 game event. 1750 pts with casualising restrictions.

 

I had a 2k game last week with a list somewhat similar to the previous one and I got my behind handed to me on a plynth, so for now the TDA has been set aside for something else that is somewhat fluffy and potentially fun. Basically facing eldar with loads of tanks was in effect a hard counter to what I had. My opponent didn't know what I'd be bringing, but when I saw his army, I had a feeling it would be uphill.

 

Battalion and vanguard detachments

Master with Heavenfall Blade and combi plasma, warlord (brilliant strategist) - 93 pts

Librarian with force sword and bolt pistol, aversion and trephination - 96 pts

Lieutenant with storm bolter, power sword and Eye of the Unseen - 66 pts

Scout squad with bolters - 55 pts

Scout squad with bolters and a heavy bolter - 65 pts

Tactical squad - 65 pts

Tactical squad - 65 pts

Dreadnought with assallt cannon and CCW with storm bolter - 134 pts

Venerable Dreadnought with twin lascannon and missile launcher - 165 pts

2 man veteran squad with grav gun and combi grav - 64 pts

Company ancient with boltgun - 63 pts

Apothecary - 55 pts

Devastator squad with 4 grav cannons - 177 pts

Ravenwing Dark Talon - 200 pts

Stormraven Gunship with twin assault cannon, two hurricane bolters and twin heavy bolter - 315 pts

Rhino - 72 pts

1750 on the nose

 

It's a little light on anti-tank, but here's the fun/kicker - Regular dreadnought, master, librarian, lieutenant, ancient, apothecary, veterans and devastators go in the storm raven. When they unload within 9" it's up to 18 bolter (boltguns, pistols and storm bolters combined), 20 grav, 2 plasma and 6 assault cannon shots with rerolls 1's on to hit and to wound, plus the storm raven and the dark talon, if it's close. That sounds like fun to me. Not insane by any means, but fluffy (because it's a master with decent retinue) and fun. I need to hope for not facing too many tanks, but the dread can at least charge in and do some damage with the fist if need be. The two tac squads start in the rhino for some protection and reducing drops. Scouts to be deployed somewhat defensively, as I'd rather not just throw them away like I've had a habit of. Deploying that way makes it 6 drops. Something most armies will find quite hard to beat.

I'll pobably struggle in all three games, but noone can rightfully claim this is a tuned list or not fluffy

[shabbadoo]

I would recommend putting together a more balanced, "realistic" looking force. For a 1,750 pt army I'd go with something along these lines:

 

1-2 HQ, 3-6 TROOPS, 1-2 ELITES, 1-2 FAST ATTACK, 2-3 HEAVY SUPPORT, 0-2 FLYERS/FORTIFICATIONS.

 

An old school White Dwarf army might include a Master, a Librarian or Chaplain, a Terminator Squad, a Dreadnought, two Tactical Squads, a Scout Squad, a Dreadnought, a Land Speeder, a Predator, and a Devastator Squad. You might throw in a Whirlwind and a Darkshroud, points permitting. More basic models will give them more to shoot at; more to attack. A more varied force is also more interesting to fight against (and with, as it is not a point-n-click army), in my opinion. They'll put up a respectable body count against you, and so feel like they have accomplished something (even if they lose). The army will also look awesome. Give them a little taste of what Dark Angels are all about.