BloodWolves Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Background: So I've been working on a large fanmade Black Templars Index but of course, creative processes take time and when you see lots of the same stuff.. you get tired and need a break. So I was reading up on the Second Founding for more Lore and started reading about the Flesh Tearers. And I am very intrigued. The Violent berzerker/ proud and zealous Marine Chapters are always my favorite. Now a big common problem people have told me about the Black Templars not gaining traction anymore with GW is because the iconography is based right on real world icons and therefore GW can't claim IP. So with that knowledge, it is a bit disheartening to know the BT Index will be thrown in the trash right away. And it's not to say what I'm proposing to try and do alongside with the Black Templars Index will be thrown away too. I know GW rarely listens to Fan Made Rules but its worth a shot and if its good and people start adopting the fan rules in games, they could roll it in. Another con, is with Kill Team rolling around, normal games will get pushed to the side for a bit. Ok, Now what the title means: Reading up on the Flesh Tearers, I have found somethings that could earn the Flesh Tearers a separate Index but still retain their Blood Angels heraldry and not stray as far as the BT are from the IF. ".. Seth has divided his 1st Company Veterans to bolster each company's fighting strength. These Veterans form a solid core of leadership around which the diminished companies can be forged into more effective fighting formations." "..All Battle-Brothers undergo constant functional cross-training so that they may effectively serve the role of a Scout, Tactical, Assault or Devastator Marine as the tactical situation necessitates." With these excerpts, I believe the Flesh Tearers should gain the same Tactical Squad flexabilities as the Black Templars Crusader Squad. The Flesh Tearers are just as vicious and wanting to engage in CQC as the BT are. So i am proposing for a Flesh Tearers Index that they too could take up Bolt Pistols and Chainswords but also Chainaxes for 1pt. I would keep the same titles as Initiate and Neophyte (unless something better is thought of) but with the first quote stating that 1st Company Veterans are divided into the formations, what would be a good name for a Flesh Tearer to be an equivalent to a Sword Brother? (I know 1st Company Veterans aren't Sword Brothers in BT). With Special Weapons and Heavy Weapons as well, the excerpt implies that the Flesh Tearer Marine is cross trained in Assault, Devastator, Scout and basic Tactical, so again, a 5 man squad should be able to take up 1 heavy or 1 special. Along with this, I am thinking of creating a few Characters for the Chapter. Possibly a named Second company captain. A Unique Primaris Lieutenant (Because after reading The Devastation of Baal and Gabriel not fully trusting the Primaris, i doubt he would let one be a captain, which has not been done and is a new cash cow for GW), a Chaplain, a Apothecary (maybe) and a Librarian. Maybe some new Relics, Traits and Stratagems. I am not however trying to make a Chapter more OP or add units or traits that are super unbalanced. I won't be adding new units or anything like that except for named characters. I know its alot balancing a Black Templars Index and a Flesh Tearers Index but if this gets some momentum, I'll invest more time into it. Also it might be easier to sell to GW since Flesh Tearers is GW IP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Flesh Tearers are a codex chapter through and through, their abnormal company structure is a practical consideration that they would drop immediately if they had enough stable geneseed to safely stay at codex recommended size. The fluff about their units being cross trained pre-dates the 5th ed fluff that all codex tactical marines have to be trained as assault and devastators first. Flesh Tearers can re-equip their marines into different codex approved squad types, that's not the same thing as having non-codex squad types. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWolves Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 Is that first statement you made explicitly stated somewhere? If so, I may rethink about carrying on this endeavor. Yes, I do understand that but the Flesh Tearers frequently cross train everything with everyone. I understand that most chapters view it as a ranking structure where as the Flesh Tearers view them as flexible skills. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 The flesh tearer thirst for combat also mean they have very few reserves and rarely fully have full force battle companies. If they have similar training as blood angels: meaning they start as assault squad then devastators then tactical it means new recruits are by default assault squads and it is more likely that they will always have full assault Marine capacity but they might be lacking tactical squads higher up the training chain. A post war 3rd company might have 3 tactical 1 devastators and 2 assault squad which shift the ratio towards assault army. Add to that death company marines and that’s a lot of assault. As for primaris I really doubt Seth will let Primaris Marines in command even as lieutenant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWolves Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 So shouldn't Assault Troops be a Troop Choice vs Fast Attack if the majority of their troops are assault? I think an easier way would be to have Flesh Tearers be able to take up assault weapons vs just bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 They're still Tactical Marines, just used in an aggressive way, rather than dedicated Assault Marines. Secondly, I can't see the Flesh Tearers mixing Tacticals and Scouts together. If anything, I can see them doing a similar thing to the Space Wolves/old Iron Hands, where they have Terminator-armoured squad leaders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 No instance of FT being special when it comes to organization (special units). The only thing I would add is +ccw option for everyone and eviscerator for characters and sergeants - for fluff purposes only because eviscerator is sub par option when compared to TH. Plus GW ignores fanmade stuff. On the other hand I was always wondering why FT do not ride dinosaurs to battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWolves Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Well Chainswords are a good start to add i think Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5124952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I really want a unit of dino-riders now... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5125333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Is that first statement you made explicitly stated somewhere? If so, I may rethink about carrying on this endeavor. Index Astartes. No instance of FT being special when it comes to organization (special units). The only thing I would add is +ccw option for everyone and eviscerator for characters and sergeants - for fluff purposes only because eviscerator is sub par option when compared to TH. Flesh Tearers used to have a special unit, they were called Death Company Dreadnoughts because back then (3rd ed) Blood Angels only had a special character one (Moriah) and Flesh Tearers used Blood Angels rules except without special characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5125373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWolves Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tried a small 1000pt game with Flesh Tearers using Black Templar like Crusader squads and it actually went pretty decent. Thematically with the abundance of chainswords/ melee weapons in basic tactical squads, I had more people coming by and saying that it looked/ worked awesome. Not a big enough change to make the Flesh Tearers OP but nice enough to fit well with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5126689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tried a small 1000pt game with Flesh Tearers using Black Templar like Crusader squads and it actually went pretty decent. Thematically with the abundance of chainswords/ melee weapons in basic tactical squads, I had more people coming by and saying that it looked/ worked awesome. Not a big enough change to make the Flesh Tearers OP but nice enough to fit well with them. I recommend taking a look at WarriorFishs batreps from his Slaanesh warband. He uses a lot of basic Chaos Marines and has decent games. At least in lower point matches. Having a bunch of basic Marines and shuffeling them into melee is a really nice casual list concept. It's just not a competetive thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5127153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWolves Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Nice! Thanks, I will check it out. I really do mean it though. Try a Blood Angel list or (Flesh Tearers in a better case) and have the basic tactical unit have the ability to take bolter and chainswords and 1 other can take a melee weapon. And 1 other person can have a heavy or special weapon. It actually flows alot nicer, which makes things actually fun and looks pretty sweet on the board as well. Like I said, its not enough of a change that makes you OP and definitely doesnt win you every game (I lost against an Ultramarines and an Imperial Guard list but beat a Tau and Chaos list) I think I will invest some time into making this Index. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5127276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Nice! Thanks, I will check it out. I really do mean it though. Try a Blood Angel list or (Flesh Tearers in a better case) and have the basic tactical unit have the ability to take bolter and chainswords and 1 other can take a melee weapon. And 1 other person can have a heavy or special weapon. It actually flows alot nicer, which makes things actually fun and looks pretty sweet on the board as well. Like I said, its not enough of a change that makes you OP and definitely doesnt win you every game (I lost against an Ultramarines and an Imperial Guard list but beat a Tau and Chaos list) I think I will invest some time into making this Index. So you're saying play Intercessors. ;) (i know i know, no special weapon but still!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348896-flesh-tearers-tactical-squadcrusader-squad/#findComment-5127345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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