Castellan knight as fire support

[Drizzt79]

What do you think guys about the castellan knight as a backline shooting platform?

 

A fully armed castellan knight is costing 604pts if my calculations are not wrong (as 4 vendreads tllas+mis)

 

In a 2kpts game I still have the possibility to build a decent DW army.

 

I would like to avoid FW dreadnoughts, so maybe this could be a valid option (survivable and with a strong punch)

 

Have you ever considered that for your lists?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It seems like such a really big crutch and cop out both at the same time to me.

[Mobius0288]

I'm definitely interested in this, but I actually think we'll get more out of a Valiant... Just because we have to move up and close the distance. Having something bigger closing the distance could work to shield our troops, or at least divert attention long enough. And those 3D6 auto hits...

[Prot]

I use my Knights as Raven for the extremely potent Strategem.

 

The nice thing about the Castellan is it allows your other units to go forward. I have trouble with rear guarding or objective squatting with my Deathwatch.

 

That being said the Castellan will get hunted in HTH by savvy players if they have the CC units to do it.

 

I actually really like the Valiant too but the relic Cawl’s plasma Decimator and the Volcano Lance with the Raven House Strategem just makes it ridiculous!

[Vel'Cona]

I think that, pound for pound, you can do just as well with a tuned-up Crusader.  Since he's running solo you'll be able to load him out nicely and he offers similar shooting potential to the Castellan at a significant point reduction.  Keep in mind that a single Relic can give a Crusader considerably stronger firepower, and depending on the Knightly House chosen there is an upgrade for each of his guns.

[Drizzt79]

The crusader (with the right toys) costs about 100pts less, and you get the rotate ion shield for 1cp instead of the 3cp for the castellan knight.

But as Prot said, the plasma decimator and the volcano lance awith the house raven stratagem are just ridicoulous.

 

My opponent plays tau with some 20 shield drones.....a lot of invulns and fnps.

 

My initial idea was a castellan with the warlord trait that gives 4++ save, and the relic that gives a basic 2+ save.

Adding to that a DW battalion detachment for 8cp, or two weaker for 13cp

 

Any advices?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

8 CP is not much tbh and you won't get to use the best stratagems much.

[Prot]

I think that, pound for pound, you can do just as well with a tuned-up Crusader.  Since he's running solo you'll be able to load him out nicely and he offers similar shooting potential to the Castellan at a significant point reduction.  Keep in mind that a single Relic can give a Crusader considerably stronger firepower, and depending on the Knightly House chosen there is an upgrade for each of his guns.

You haven’t used a Castellan have you?

 

I say this because I may have said the same thing before using it. I have run lists with both Knights. The difference in my experience has been massive. The Volcano is a vehicle annihilator. My Crusader is great at elite infantry but can’t touch the level of vehicle damage the Volcano can do. The dual Quad melta will annihilate the heaviest targets in close range too.

 

Overcharging Cawls relic with the Raven Strat doing 3 damage per wound feels like cheating (with the Strat).

 

Finally the Oathbreaker Strat with the missiles in the same turn is very likely going to kill a key Aura /character in one shot. I know I’ve taken out hiding warlords in one shot

 

This thing is a beast. I personally think the on paper difference doesn’t look like much either but on the table I think they’re miles apart in execution. But that being said there’s a heavy cost there too and if you have vehicles covered, the Crusader may compliment your DW better

[Drizzt79]

 

I think that, pound for pound, you can do just as well with a tuned-up Crusader.  Since he's running solo you'll be able to load him out nicely and he offers similar shooting potential to the Castellan at a significant point reduction.  Keep in mind that a single Relic can give a Crusader considerably stronger firepower, and depending on the Knightly House chosen there is an upgrade for each of his guns.

You haven’t used a Castellan have you?

I say this because I may have said the same thing before using it. I have run lists with both Knights. The difference in my experience has been massive. The Volcano is a vehicle annihilator. My Crusader is great at elite infantry but can’t touch the level of vehicle damage the Volcano can do. The dual Quad melta will annihilate the heaviest targets in close range too.

Overcharging Cawls relic with the Raven Strat doing 3 damage per wound feels like cheating (with the Strat).

Finally the Oathbreaker Strat with the missiles in the same turn is very likely going to kill a key Aura /character in one shot. I know I’ve taken out hiding warlords in one shot

This thing is a beast. I personally think the on paper difference doesn’t look like much either but on the table I think they’re miles apart in execution. But that being said there’s a heavy cost there too and if you have vehicles covered, the Crusader may compliment your DW better

Ok I’m convinced....will buy the Castellan. Ok but what about the rest of the army?

Some vets SS/SB, some basic intercessor squads, and some bikes to grab objectives?

[Prot]

Oh I wasn’t trying to convince you. I seriously think the Valiant is a great unit too.

 

Honestly if I’m not playing a competitive game or ITC prep or something similar I really can’t use this unit anymore unless my opponent is 100% cool with it in advance. Unfortunately I almost never have predetermined opponents so I am putting it away for a while.

[Drizzt79]

Oh I wasn’t trying to convince you. I seriously think the Valiant is a great unit too.

Honestly if I’m not playing a competitive game or ITC prep or something similar I really can’t use this unit anymore unless my opponent is 100% cool with it in advance. Unfortunately I almost never have predetermined opponents so I am putting it away for a while.

No worries, the castellan was my first choice anyways....just by reading the stats

 

Now I just have to build a good DW list to accompany that monster

 

Which warlord trait do you take usually? What about the relic? Cawls wrath is really good adding a lot of fire power, but wouldn’t the 2+ save relic be better!?

[Vel'Cona]

 

You haven’t used a Castellan have you?

 

I say this because I may have said the same thing before using it. I have run lists with both Knights. The difference in my experience has been massive. The Volcano is a vehicle annihilator. My Crusader is great at elite infantry but can’t touch the level of vehicle damage the Volcano can do. The dual Quad melta will annihilate the heaviest targets in close range too.

 

I suppose that's fair, I look at the Crusader as a balanced platform and not specifically for its role in either anti-vehicle or horde-clearing potential.  One aspect of the Castellan I greatly dislike is how much worse it is in melee, though being able to disengage and shoot can largely nullify this issue.  I suppose it depends on what you end up facing the most, and the Castellan does seem to be strong at eliminating priority targets, at the cost of soaking nearly a third (or more) of your points allocation.

 

In general, I haven't been impressed with either of the Dominus-Class Knights locally, but I think that's largely because I've seen them fielded in pure IK armies that, from what I can tell, are strictly inferior to IK/IG/SM soups.  That being said, perhaps it's a matter of poor application of said Knights; we certainly aren't rife for talent on the gaming table locally :P (myself included)