Just bought a Knight Castellan :-D

[Ishagu]

So, I'm assuming Cawl's Wrath is the relic of choice?

 

What are people's thoughts on what house works best with this Knight variant? In truth I'll probably make him into a Freeblade as I doubt I'll run more Knights alongside this one.

[Heliomanes]

A sole Knight Castellan with the Ion Bulwark warlord trait for that 4++, and the Cawl's Wrath relic seems like the go to choice. In most tournaments they tend to be used as House Raven, since even as a solo knight that will grant access to the competitive Questor Mechanicus stratagems, and the House Raven specific one which allows you to reroll all 1s during an entire shooting phase, including when you roll d3s to determine number of shots.

[CaptainMarsh]

Heliomanes has more or less described how I run mine, and from experience, it has been hyper effective.

[chapter master 454]

That's the go to set-up really. Ion Bulwark is effectively getting a free rotate every turn for free so is worth a lot and makes the actual stratagem for Dominus worth it (having a 3++ is pretty good).

 

I personally run mine as Taranis as I preferred their colour scheme (as different as it is XD) and also I preferred their trait and stratagem. While not "optimal" I do like having a 6+++ on my knights and the stratagem is quite fun.

"Yea, I got your Dominus!"

"You activated my trap card...I meant stratagem! Reborn the Dominus!"

"That's against the rules"

"Actually, it isn't look here"

 

However you would not be wrong going into other houses, Vulker would certainly be a cheeky one with their stratagem. Why yes, a volcano lance that double taps on hit rolls of 6s does sound dirty as heck!

Only caveat however is do be careful with the volcano lance...it tends to...delete...things...like...gone...so rule of thumb: if you point the lance at a tank, that's all you need for that target XD (did manage to once one shot a spartan assault tank with my lance...AFTER my dominus took no damage from his 2 Quad Lascannons!).

[Marshal Reinhard]

Cawl's Wrath does elevate itself above the rest of the relics you can bring on a Castellan, no real doubt about it. Since the castellan is all about shooting Raven is also popular due to the stratagem

[Karhedron]

Raven is probably my favourite choice but Krast is not bad either for access to the "First Knight" trait. Rerolling all 1s to hit without having to spend CPs is pretty good too. Overall I think that Raven clinches it for me but only just.

[Ishagu]

So what are people's opinions of the Freeblade rules? Do any stand out upon trying them out or see the benefits too minor?

[Stray]

So what are people's opinions of the Freeblade rules? Do any stand out upon trying them out or see the benefits too minor?

 

Some are alright, but most are outclassed in almost every situation by the normal traditions etc.

 

The one case we've discussed on the board that did seem like a good use of the Freeblade traits, was taking the 'Ob-sec' one on something quick and 'less impactful' like an Armiger? We suffer somewhat when it comes to the objective game without resorting to soup, and this can help cover that fairly nicely.

[Karhedron]

A Gallant with Legendary Hero, Driven to Slaughter and Impetuous Nature can work quite well. The Quality is pretty handy and the Burdens are not much of a problem on a Gallant which wants to be charging the enemy anyway.

[Heliomanes]

Remind me; how does the freeblade rules interact with stratagems? Freeblades have always seemed like such a bad deal, so I haven't really looked at this in much detail yet. Can we still use Questor Mechanicus or House specific stratagems on them? If not, then I just can't picture myself using them.

[Stray]

Remind me; how does the freeblade rules interact with stratagems? Freeblades have always seemed like such a bad deal, so I haven't really looked at this in much detail yet. Can we still use Questor Mechanicus or House specific stratagems on them? If not, then I just can't picture myself using them.

 

You can't use the Codex: Imperial Knights Household specific strats, no. Generic ones should obviously be fine.

 

Interestingly, they're a good option as a target for the Codex: Mechanicus strats. You can't use the Knight of the Cog strat on a Knight within a Lance currently, so typically the only time KotC is going to legally come into play is on single Knights in a SHAD. As Knights in a SHAD can't benefit from Household Traditions anyway, it makes a certain amount of sense to utilise Freeblades there.

[Ishagu]

I see it as a minor bonus when running a single Knight, and can still utilise the Mechanicus aligned strats and relics. I think with some sort of leadership re roll it might work better... (Guilliman for example, although he's so pricey now lol)

[Charlo]

Yeah I'd say the only decent freeblade is a Gallant, otherwise it's probably not much help.

 

Or just run Rex.

[librisrouge]

Not to highjack another comrade's thread but any advice on how to field a Castellan if I'm running House Hawkshroud, or does it just boil down to taking it an enjoying a volcano lance.

[Stray]

I dunno whether I'd want to spend those points for just the Volcano Lance...

 

Have you considered taking one in a Super Heavy Aux Detachment as a Mechanicus Household for Cawls Wrath, and just running your other Knights as normal?

You'd have MSR as a strat for the Castellan to cover the lost Tradition too.

 

I'm just not sure it's a worthwhile Knight with the default gimped weapon loadout personally.

[Ishagu]

Cawl's Wrath is indeed a far superior weapon. I think you should run the Knight as a Mechanicus aligned freeblade with obsec as someone above suggested so you can unlock the relic.

[chapter master 454]

Ok, going to step in there.

 

Cawl's Wrath is great however do NOT think it auto include on the castellan. While a great relic, its purpose seems to err towards taking out bigger heavy infantry and edging towards anti-tank which I will already point out one question: You have a volcano lance, why do you need more anti-tank? The lance itself can delete practically ANY tank it looks at with ease and the decimator is intended to be the castellans "anti-infantry" gun. The only reason the other relics are great for a dominus is because there aren't many. That's mainly because GW went HARD on trying to ignore knight ranged firepower and encourage going melee with them far too much which means when we talk about daddy gunline dominus Castellan it gets left in the dust for options however there are some with some interesting quirks to consider.

 

Armour of Sainted Ion and Sanctuary can be a nice pick it melee is becoming an issue for your dominus. I say that as both are...the same...well, in terms of maths really. I notice a lot of Melee that hits hard for tanks is somewhere around AP3 so Sainted Ion giving you a 2+ save effectively gives you the same as sanctuary but benefits vs. loose fire that may plink wounds while sanctuary is surefire 5++ with benefit of rotation option to keep you covered.

 

Main point I want to say really: Cawl's Wrath is only "best" because it lacks competition. No Relic Siegebreaker cannons, no relic "secondary" gun for dominus. When you go to play someone, take a serious think about if you need cawl's wrath. Sometimes having it be a different relic like judgement might be a good call.

[Heliomanes]

Well, you'd need more anti tank against other knights for instance. Not sure that "the volcano cannon alone will take care of all tanks, so Cawl's wrath is redundant" is that good of an argument, but that'd depend on your opponent. If you're up against some eldar transport spam of some kind, for instance, taking down at least 2 per turn becomes a necessity. Still, a worthwhile consideration if you go up against hordes and the likes, which is pretty much the "rock" to the Castelan's "scissors".

Cawl's wrath bumps the damage, strength and ap of the weapon by 1 - so you can fire at MEQ without overcharging and hurting them on 2s, while blowing through their armor saves. The ability to go S9 D3 when overcharging to take out tanks is a good bonus, but you don't have to use that firing mode all the time, if you're not after vehicles.

Ideally, you'll blow through most of your command points in the first few turns, using the Raven stratagem, rotating shields and going ham with the rest of your force, so having a flat upgrade that lets you do quite some damage without being afraid of a disastrous roll of a 1 when the great machine is barely hanging on in the final turns - could be immensely valuable beyond its utility as a buffed tank hunter in the first few turns.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Being the best because it lacks competition still means its the best. The answer would be to have more usefull and competitive options. I would've especially loved this since I can't even take CW to begin with because reasons.

[Ishagu]

I think Cawl's Wrath might be a better weapon than the Volcano Lance and delivers a comparable amount of damage whilst being less swingy, and the 2/3 damage hits the sweet spots of killing all sorts of Elite infantry and really hurting vehicles. You could easily be looking at stripping 15 wounds from a model if you overcharge.

 

It's interesting that so many items were locked behind houses/allegiances in this codex but it does create more balance.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Don't really agree that it does create more balance in the case of CW, because it's locked to already more shooty houses (mechanicum side), ie those that are more likely to be able to """"exploit"""" it. 

 

At least I cannot fathom how my Terryn knights, whose bonuses are all about charging, are more balanced because i cannot take CW. They are however able to take Traitors Pyre if I bring a Valiant.

[sneakybamsen]

Don't really agree that it does create more balance in the case of CW, because it's locked to already more shooty houses (mechanicum side), ie those that are more likely to be able to """"exploit"""" it. 

 

At least I cannot fathom how my Terryn knights, whose bonuses are all about charging, are more balanced because i cannot take CW. They are however able to take Traitors Pyre if I bring a Valiant.

 

Which was hailed as an autotake and so many people swore to the valiant, cause the castellan wouldn't be worth it's immense cost and so on...

 

Personally I never found it that appealing.

 

That said, I can see why, when you've set your mind on a household, and want to stay true to that due to fluff (and paintwork), it's annoying that something as obviously good (read: a massive upgrade) as Cawl's Wrath is not available to you. GW said, to adress the issue of paint, that you can play your models with whatever household tradition/legion trait/hivefleet you like, even if they are not painted in those colors. So it's up to the player to decide. Rules permit questor imperialis from taking CW, as well as Traitor's Pyre cannot be used by mechanicus, but I think they made it so for fluff reasons. If that is fair, I shall not decide, but I think that's why.

 

My DA are painted green, and I never play them as some adeptus astartes chapter, although I technically could, if I wanted to. With knights I am painting them in a scheme that go with my DA, all of them in that scheme (sounds like I have a million, I don't), so I might have problems with a pure knight list using both castellan, crusader and gallants, cause different knights want different households, but I guess I'll have to take that on the cheek.

 

I mean no disrespect with this, just that it's up to you, if you want to be able to use CW, as you could play your knights as mechanicus no matter the colours they are painted in.

 

With that out there, I am not mortified by the prospect of playing a castellan without CW, even if it is a major upgrade, as I feel it's a matter of making it work in your favor. But of course, I'm plasma biased as a DA player.

 

Regards

[Marshal Reinhard]

Well okay, what you're saying essentially boils down to is that I can more or less choose not have the restriction upon me if I just decide to flat out ignore said restriction by saying my blue horse knights are of the blue horse wing of House Raven or some other house (and of course get their or whatever house's traditions instead). And sure that'd solve it I guess? I would never ever dream of saying that someone who wants to do this cannot do this. Please do. I wont hold anything against them, I won't snort and be unwilling to play them. But I probably will not do this myself.

 

And "Aha!" some might then say. Then surely the onus is now on me, because I have now deliberately chosen to limit myself from being able to take the relic, so I have no room to complain anymore, right? To which I say "No my complaint is still equally valid". Letting only half of the houses take it is in my opinion a stupid restriction that really does not serve to provide any game balance at all. I've yet to see a convincing argument to the contrary, but if I do I will be sure to adjust this opinion of mine accordingly.

 

EDIT: Oh and to clarify, I am not mortified by not having access to the relic either. I think the relic statline makes the comparison with the regular decimator a comparison between night and day and if I could take it I would probably take it often. But my relic choice may still also go towards another knight in any given list (well actually it almost always will because the remaining options to choose from for a castellan are pretty tame) But the side argument I am making now is that I still don't feel strongly enough that I "must" have Cawl's Wrath to play my house as something they're not painted as. I mean if I wanted to be really cheeky I could field the Castellan alone in a SHAD as a mechanicum house of choice and field the rest of my knights as how they've been painted, but again even that is too much of a bother to me. I'll choose not to be able to take the relic. Ok, game, you win. But I will still call it a stupid restriction as long as I hold this opinion.

[Vel'Cona]

=][= I'm not sure who you're arguing with, but since it's not constructive to this thread, stop =][=

[brother_b]

I'm getting the valliant, and I plan on playing Admech aligned.

 

I think, personally, it was a horrible idea to tie the relic weaopns for the big knights to specific alliances (mechanicus/imperialis). It's limiting on a model that GW should realistically want their consumers to have both versions. That's my opinion.

 

Anyway.

 

I'm going valliant because I like the in close attack. I love the range of the flamer and the idea of using the flamer, charging, backing out, and doing it all over again the next turn.

 

Also the harpoon thingy looks amazing just for fun.

 

Cheers!