Qui-Gon Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 So, I attended an ITC tournament recently. Went 3-2.My list was in simple termsWatch master2 librarians1 terminator librarian3 frag cannon teams (2 frags, a shield and boltguns)1 stalker team (5 stalkers, 1 shield)1 storm bolter team (9 storm bolters, 2 shields, and a vanguard)1 intercessor squad (9 bolt rifles and an inceptor with assault bolters)2 rhinos3 bikers w/ a storm bolter sergeantKnight Gallant FreebladeWon my round 1 vs necrons with a T.Vault and a Deceiver dropping on me turn 1Won my round 2 vs Tyranids with GSC supportingLost my round 3 vs death guard T8 spam (3 plaguebursts and 3 levi dreads, was not a fun game)Lost my round 4 vs Nurgle daemons, but I could have won had I done several things differentlyWon my round 5 vs Drukhari, who conceded turn 3 due to my dominance and him being really tired and forgetting his reserves.Ended 16/60. Some cliff notes:Knight did its job, soaking all the heavy fire it was intended to, not regretting the choice at all in taking it.The Bikers didn't perform sufficiently, one squad wasn't enough to do much, should have had 2-3 but no real points. Except vs the Death guard game, the librarians always pulled their weight and there was no doubt in my mind that they were worth the points. Mortal were half the reason that I managed to kill the T.Vault game 1. Without them, I'd have lost that game badly.Watch Master supporting a storm bolter team is mean for the firepower they put out even through minuses.Flyers are never a problem when you've the volume of quality firepower from frag cannons.The only under-performers were the bikes, might swap them out and drop the terminator libby to jump pack to take a jump pack captain for greater relic access and to not have to always take the beacon for advance deployment options when I need to do supportive teleportarium drops with the intercessors and storm bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Really interested to hear more about the Librarians. Was the Psychic Focus matched play rule in effect at your tournament? My initial feeling was that having 3 Librarians meant I'd mostly just be casting smite since there were rarely more than 2 powers worth casting most of the time and I couldn't double down to ensure I could cast the powers I really wanted since I could only attempt it once per phase. That seemed on the surface to be pretty limiting, but it seems like you had a whole different experience on the table. Can you expand on what powers you found the most useful in what situations and why you felt more than one Librarian was worth including? With 3 I imagine you could find use out of Empyric Channeling, which I think I recall you being a huge proponent for in your Deathwatch codex review podcast. Did it end up being as useful as you predicted? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Do you remember how many turns the Knight lasted each round - seems like a perfect fit for DW ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Really interested to hear more about the Librarians. Was the Psychic Focus matched play rule in effect at your tournament? My initial feeling was that having 3 Librarians meant I'd mostly just be casting smite since there were rarely more than 2 powers worth casting most of the time and I couldn't double down to ensure I could cast the powers I really wanted since I could only attempt it once per phase. That seemed on the surface to be pretty limiting, but it seems like you had a whole different experience on the table. Can you expand on what powers you found the most useful in what situations and why you felt more than one Librarian was worth including? With 3 I imagine you could find use out of Empyric Channeling, which I think I recall you being a huge proponent for in your Deathwatch codex review podcast. Did it end up being as useful as you predicted? Each game I tried to diversify the spells. Null zone was often an option and tried to get it off vs Nurgle, but it failed and after I had 3 frag cannon teams slaughter a 7 man drone squad, ya never got a second chance. Psychic Scourge all the time because damage is good. Might of Heroes was really clutch at times making the Watch Master have T5/A5 for a round. Veil of Time was also used to get off a couple key charges for the Watch master to beat face. Also, Smites for days is the big thing, very few units have guaranteed damage for 100 pts. 3 of them also gives 3 chances to get off a D3 wounds on something without having to worry about negatives. Seriously, when you consider the librarian can be a 100 pt tempest shell vs the closest target (which is often the thing the enemy is pushing into you) it is worth it for that alone. But when you can also get D6 damage off, (and I did and 6ed several) then it really shines. And Empyric Channeling was used in half of the games. Often I use it to fish for the 11 on smite, but sometimes you can't roll the 9 then, but what can you do? The librarians have never failed to perform. You need to have a goal for them in mind. I rarely take an army without 3 of them and they very rarely fail to do damage. They also helped in almost taking out 3 dark eldar planes in one turn. Do you remember how many turns the Knight lasted each round - seems like a perfect fit for DW ! The Knight lasted 4 rounds vs Necrons 2 vs the Nids (through my own stupidity but it did its job which was tie up genestealers for a turn and a half) 1 vs the Nurgle, but then I exploded for the 11" D6 MW in the whole army, so it was worth the points for that. Did not die in the Daemon fight because I gave it a 2+ save and it is a tough son of a bitch for an AP0 army to crack with that. Did not die in the Dark Eldar game, despite taking over 1 dozen dark light weapons shots per turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta.Skies Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Really interested to hear more about the Librarians. Was the Psychic Focus matched play rule in effect at your tournament? My initial feeling was that having 3 Librarians meant I'd mostly just be casting smite since there were rarely more than 2 powers worth casting most of the time and I couldn't double down to ensure I could cast the powers I really wanted since I could only attempt it once per phase. That seemed on the surface to be pretty limiting, but it seems like you had a whole different experience on the table. Can you expand on what powers you found the most useful in what situations and why you felt more than one Librarian was worth including? With 3 I imagine you could find use out of Empyric Channeling, which I think I recall you being a huge proponent for in your Deathwatch codex review podcast. Did it end up being as useful as you predicted? Each game I tried to diversify the spells. Null zone was often an option and tried to get it off vs Nurgle, but it failed and after I had 3 frag cannon teams slaughter a 7 man drone squad, ya never got a second chance. Psychic Scourge all the time because damage is good. Might of Heroes was really clutch at times making the Watch Master have T5/A5 for a round. Veil of Time was also used to get off a couple key charges for the Watch master to beat face. Also, Smites for days is the big thing, very few units have guaranteed damage for 100 pts. 3 of them also gives 3 chances to get off a D3 wounds on something without having to worry about negatives. Seriously, when you consider the librarian can be a 100 pt tempest shell vs the closest target (which is often the thing the enemy is pushing into you) it is worth it for that alone. But when you can also get D6 damage off, (and I did and 6ed several) then it really shines. And Empyric Channeling was used in half of the games. Often I use it to fish for the 11 on smite, but sometimes you can't roll the 9 then, but what can you do? The librarians have never failed to perform. You need to have a goal for them in mind. I rarely take an army without 3 of them and they very rarely fail to do damage. They also helped in almost taking out 3 dark eldar planes in one turn. Do you remember how many turns the Knight lasted each round - seems like a perfect fit for DW ! The Knight lasted 4 rounds vs Necrons 2 vs the Nids (through my own stupidity but it did its job which was tie up genestealers for a turn and a half) 1 vs the Nurgle, but then I exploded for the 11" D6 MW in the whole army, so it was worth the points for that. Did not die in the Daemon fight because I gave it a 2+ save and it is a tough son of a bitch for an AP0 army to crack with that. Did not die in the Dark Eldar game, despite taking over 1 dozen dark light weapons shots per turn. I was wondering about the libs myself. Trying to fit them in now. Thinking 1 jumpack 2 on foot, might have to get the rhino or sub out a razorback for it. Wish we had our own disciplines but since we are a rag tag bunch its understandable. But the frags. Heavy point invest but glad it paid off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Some folks can't make librarians work, but I have, and they've always worked. Its a "test it for yourself" mentality. Any questions, feel free to ask. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I have been saying a long time we have really solid psychic powers and most are pretty easy to cast too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Yup. I've fallen in love with my Jump pack Libby. Whether with allied slamaguineius or monocodex DW, I dont hit the table without one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewatch Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Some folks can't make librarians work, but I have, and they've always worked. Its a "test it for yourself" mentality. Any questions, feel free to ask. Three librarians making Psychic tests every turn; do you feel that Perils of the Warp is something to take into account when planning roles and tasks for librarians? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Some folks can't make librarians work, but I have, and they've always worked. Its a "test it for yourself" mentality. Any questions, feel free to ask. Three librarians making Psychic tests every turn; do you feel that Perils of the Warp is something to take into account when planning roles and tasks for librarians? Hold your CP for a Command Re-roll for perils chances, but beyond that, not much you can do to mitigate it. Perils only come up so often that I am balls to the wall when it comes to the powers. I don't stress about perils because they will happen when they happen. Same thing can be said for anything in the game. BS 2+ on a 2 shot weapon can and will snake eyes on occasion, so I don't worry. Besides, when you're in combat with things, you actually WANT to peril because if you pop you do damage to the enemy. So its a win win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5125927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Good observations (in short-script format, no less) from your tournament experience. I very much appreciate the information you've provided here, though I'm sad to hear that DW Bikers came up short. Do you think it's a matchmaking issue or that they just don't have a specific role in the DW list? Also, have you considered taking a shootier Knight or is the Gallant's dedicated melee platform specifically what you need here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5126211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 Good observations (in short-script format, no less) from your tournament experience. I very much appreciate the information you've provided here, though I'm sad to hear that DW Bikers came up short. Do you think it's a matchmaking issue or that they just don't have a specific role in the DW list? Also, have you considered taking a shootier Knight or is the Gallant's dedicated melee platform specifically what you need here? It was more that they were easily identifiable as being priority targets due to their speed and potential firepower. The rhinos were tougher and so people dedicated efforts to kill the bikers because they were an easier mark. Another problem was only one unit of them is not enough saturation as to be a problem. If I'd had 3, I feel they'd have done more. They certainly still have a place, but you need more than one squad I feel. Or make them infantry through Veteran squad shenanegains to be able to make them frustratingly annoying with terrain and cover. The dedicated melee platform was what I wanted. Being a natural WS 2+ at top tier, 5A over 4, means that it wants to be in melee, and when it IS in melee its a devastating bastard. Use the Warlord trait for +1 A and now its 18 stompy feet attacks, which can clear hordes with impunity. A shooty knight would have the problem of BS 3+ on a really expensive platform for an overpriced gun. I was also running it as a free blade, and the freeblade burdens and qualities really emphasize a melee knight as a viable option over a shooty one. There are one or two qualities that benefits a shooty knight, and 4 or 5 burdens that seriously penalize a shooty knight. However, the ability to get a once per battle round re-roll of a hit, wound, saving throw, damage, or charge distance really helps a melee knight, and the burdens of 'oh noes I am BS 6+' and 'I have to declare charges against everything in 12"' is laughable for a melee knight since you want him advancing and charging through full tilt. Will definitely take the melee knight again. I don't care if there are titan killers or devastating guns on certain dudes, the Gallant did its job (considering it only died once to shooting the whole tournament in spite of being the primary target to kill means that it did its job in spades) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5126366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I would suggest trying plasma Inceptors instead of the bikes. Same movement but way better fire power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5126590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 The only problem is Plasma Exterminator Inceptors are almost double the points cost, and are still a high priority target. Yes I could Jump Pack Assault them in, but I don't have another 70 pts to dump into the unit. My army is lean enough as it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5126624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 You can run inceptors with heavy bolt pistols. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5126982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Inceptors with "heavy bolt pistols"? The Assault Bolters, sure, are a flat 6 shots all the time at 18", S5 -1, but for the extra 44 pts, to get 2 more shots I don't think is worth it. That's just me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5127004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 You can run inceptors with heavy bolt pistols. I don't think this is a thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5127017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Assault bolters ... w/e. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5127021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I mean, given how many "bolt" weapons exist at this point, I can see where the confusion would set in :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348957-results-of-a-tournament-i-attended-recently/#findComment-5127590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.