The Shark Jumped: Debating FeMarines, Primaris Too

[Guest Triszin]

 

The fluff already permits body modification to get a SM statline (think assassins and kasper hawser)

 

So with hand wavium it isn't far fetched...it is jut a slightly different process. but in game terms you get female space marines

 

I have female assassin models and i say they are fenrisian women of valor who were enhanced by the flesh shapers and serve specialized roles in my army

That was my thought. They don't need to be Space Marines to be genetically enhanced. Astarties are implanted with gene seed, but there would be other ways to boost body performance. Enhancing the Sisters gives you female super soldiers with out killing the fluff.

 

That's where I was going with the story line, gives them a good reason and would tell an interesting story.

 

thats my thinking now aswell.

 

---can someone post the picture of a female inquistor in terminator armor?----

 

Perhaps they Sisters now view the need to have some troops as genetically enhanced to deal with the chance Heretic Primaris Marines.

 

even the chance of primaris imperial truth hardliners, for fear of losing the religion.

 

perhaps table wise, have them as Elites/heavy troopers that specialize in anti armor tactics.

[Karack Blackstone]

A Female system/sequence with the same result but a different path using and arranging existing genehance tech makes sense.

 

I can go with that angle, for now. It might also be a jumpoff point for FeMarines, for me, but allows a great deal of customization, as needed.

 

This thread has also raised a great alternative, including said above path: Super Sisters, the idea as discussed by others, TiguriusX and Yoyo Ninja weighing in with solid guidance.

 

In light of the current, ongoing discourse, I think that my version of this great and plausible idea will work just fine for me.

 

Thanks.

 

This thread has by now changed enough to at least ask, do we continue here? I am wondering about first page weigh ins that might not see this further thread development buried on the third page.

[Guest Triszin]

A Female system/sequence with the same result but a different path using and arranging existing genehance tech makes sense.

 

I can go with that angle, for now. It might also be a jumpoff point for FeMarines, for me, but allows a great deal of customization, as needed.

 

This thread has also raised a great alternative, including said above path: Super Sisters, the idea as discussed by others, TiguriusX and Yoyo Ninja weighing in with solid guidance.

 

In light of the current, ongoing discourse, I think that my version of this great and plausible idea will work just fine for me.

 

Thanks.

 

This thread has by now changed enough to at least ask, do we continue here? I am wondering about first page weigh ins that might not see this further thread development buried on the third page.

the one way we could continue is discussing how a "fenrisian" sister of battle could exist.

 

and from there how different they would be compared to the standard sisters

 

additionally

 

what a Gene-enhanced sister of battle would use. armor, weapons and tactics.

 

would they use a unique pattern of Ceramite armor that merges gravis and jump jets?

 

would they use bolters?

 

 

or would they be armed with Volkite weapons, and it turns out that the essecrially have queityl acquired the stcs for volkite.

 

and only sisters have it save a few chapter heirloms.

[GrFlur]

They should use frost-guns...

 

Ice Queen coming in 3, 2, 1...

[Guest Triszin]

They should use frost-guns...

 

Ice Queen coming in 3, 2, 1...

in my mind, our primaris aggressors will have helfrost throwers....

 

in my mind

[Karack Blackstone]

Hm...

 

Volkite Sisters could be terrifying; the problem is, the Sisters of Battle do have their holy trinity, bolter, flamer, melta.

 

Triszin, a thought: model them as Helfrost weapons, and if need be, just use counts-as Hellblasters rules?

 

Again, I love this thread; thanks for the continued well thought out and cogent posts, all.

 

Edit:

 

Vastly more this...

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/as heck/44/beaf44028db16d376b8485dedc0d66d0.jpg

 

Never this...

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8f/23/80/8f2380b50da28f2d7543c58110931e8e.jpg

[TiguriusX]

I blame you for purchasing the following heads that I intend to build shield maidens with

[hammer grimblood]

Sounds great Karak! Go for it. I’ve been thinking about female marines myself for quite some time. Some thoughts for yourself and those in the thread. Look at combat armor for our current military, it’s the same armor just smaller. Marines are genetically enhanced super soldiers so take a look at female body builders to give you an idea of muscle mass and how androgynous some of them can look. Personally, I hate the look of the SoB due to the unrealistic boob plate. Female marines should look similar to the new Sigmar females and be almost indistiguishable to current marines with their helmets on.

 

Edit: For those saying we already have SoB and should then get Brothers of Battle remember there was no science preventing male members of the Sisterhood, it was a directive pushed out so therefore the faction should remain unchained. Also, SoB have regularly featured males in the form of priests and other member of the ecclesiarchy. Finally to those saying the Emperor himself is the only one who could do such a thing please see Cawl and Primaris. :)

[Karack Blackstone]

I blame you for purchasing the following heads that I intend to build shield maidens with

By all means, Tig, I'm curious as to what fluff you intend to use as to how your Wolves got to where this works for you!

These are the heads I went with, five orders:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/GMD24KLW2/warfaces2-mix-female

[Yoyo ninja]

Grimblood.

Sorry brother, but the argument for women not becoming Marines wasn't just based in in-universe science, there were many other good reasons. For instance, the Imperium that is routed in tradition and any form of change is stamped out ruthlessly. Anyone looking to make changes to gene seed would be considered a traitor and hunted to the ends of the galaxy, likely by the marines who's gene seed they sort to change.

 

Cawl was sanctioned by Guilliman and given gene seed to work with. Also it took him 10,000 years to come up with 4 new organs and make them work with existing gene seed. At that pace you could expect to see female marines in another 50,000 years

[Wolf Guard Dan]

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/aurel-1

 

These are a little pricey, but they do look amazing

 

http://www.statuesqueminiatures.co.uk/p/8774376/sma301-heroic-scale-female-heads.html

 

Some decent female heads here and cheaper than having to buy the Stormcasts

 

These look incredible. The one negative is that their eyelids are some prominent you can't really see their eyes. I think I may pick some up anyways.

[TiguriusX]

I blame you for purchasing the following heads that I intend to build shield maidens with

By all means, Tig, I'm curious as to what fluff you intend to use as to how your Wolves got to where this works for you!

These are the heads I went with, five orders:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/GMD24KLW2/warfaces2-mix-female

I have an addiction to assassins so I plan to use my female models there

My background fluff is a lone wolf who left to serve in the death watch and became very good at hunting xenos including psykers.

He developed a very loyal special forces type of retinue from his fenrisian shield maidens (basically all his assassins he worked with)

When he heard about Bobby G returning and the latest attack on Fenris he decided he should return for the wolf time

His retinue decided to go with him

As for modeling I was thinking the head with the goggles and breather can be put on a scout sniper as a nice counts as vindicare

I can use another head on a GH body for my eversor or something

I'll figure it out when I get there

I just liked those models because the hair is a practical issue I had to deal with recently for my daughter

She does brazilian jiu-jitsu and got sick of the pony tail (2nd image posted). It works for many of the other girls but she just doesn't like it. She recently decided to cut it semi short (like the 1st image posted).

She likes it "girl short not guy short" is how she describes it.

So naturally those 2 model options caught my attention

[Bulwyf]

I love the fluff like anyone else but this is GW we are talking about. If someone tells them they could sell female space marines and have a target audience of half the world's population that suddenly would be way more interested in 40k...they will retcon the ever lovin' fluff out of the lore to make it happen.

[Surreal Cruelty]

I love the fluff like anyone else but this is GW we are talking about. If someone tells them they could sell female space marines and have a target audience of half the world's population that suddenly would be way more interested in 40k...they will retcon the ever lovin' fluff out of the lore to make it happen.

 

Fluff can be, has been, and will be changed.  The original design of the game was huge helpings of Dune, Judge Dredd, Brazil (the movie), Heavy Metal music, Michael Moorcock novels, and sci-fi pop culture thrown into a blender, and was much more tongue-in-cheek dystopian satire than serious grim-dark.  A lot, a ton of fluff didn't make it through that transition.  I actually preferred the dystopian satire to the unrelenting drama and angst that characterizes the 40k universe now, but I do think that grim-dark is a better story.

 

There were female Space Marines models in the very beginning of the Rogue Trader era; two really, really ugly models, and one unreleased model.  Space Marines were not the faction we all know and love until later with several early issues of White Dwarf that were eventually combined into the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium, when you got the whole 12-step process to becoming a space marine and the Horus Heresy.

[OgreOnAStick]

I love the fluff like anyone else but this is GW we are talking about. If someone tells them they could sell female space marines and have a target audience of half the world's population that suddenly would be way more interested in 40k...they will retcon the ever lovin' fluff out of the lore to make it happen.

 

Ah, yes the siren song that is the 'Wider Audience'.

 

 

There were female Space Marines models in the very beginning of the Rogue Trader era; two really, really ugly models, and one unreleased model. 

 

Please stop perpetuating this myth, those models were neither released under the header of Imperial Space Marines or called as such.

 

[Guest]

 

I love the fluff like anyone else but this is GW we are talking about. If someone tells them they could sell female space marines and have a target audience of half the world's population that suddenly would be way more interested in 40k...they will retcon the ever lovin' fluff out of the lore to make it happen.

 

 

Ah, yes the siren song that is the 'Wider Audience'.

 

There were female Space Marines models in the very beginning of the Rogue Trader era; two really, really ugly models, and one unreleased model.

 

 

Please stop perpetuating this myth, those models were neither released under the header of Imperial Space Marines or called as such.

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/LxgladH

 

Right side Sister of Pruification: "several female chapters if imperial space Marines". However they also say Adeptes Sororitus so the lore was not the same as modern day. The femarines of yesteryear are the sisters of battle today it seems.

[OgreOnAStick]

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/LxgladH

 

Right side Sister of Pruification: "several female chapters if imperial space Marines". However they also say Adeptes Sororitus so the lore was not the same as modern day. The femarines of yesteryear are the sisters of battle today it seems.

 

 

That is from a US-based Challenge magazine. the GDW in the corner stands for Game Designer's Workshop. Third party fanfiction.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Add on the fact that with the tyranids coming and the supposed need of arming every man woman and child in three segmentums, the Imperium would be foolish not to start putting anyone they can into full power armor.

Logistical difficulties can make it foolish to put "anyone they can" into full power armor. Wouldn't the ceramite and adamantium needed for all those suits of armor, be better used for the production of warships to intercept the Hive Fleets, Leman Russ tanks to blow the Tyranids from afar or crush the xenos beneath their treads, etc.?

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Add on the fact that with the tyranids coming and the supposed need of arming every man woman and child in three segmentums, the Imperium would be foolish not to start putting anyone they can into full power armor.

Logistical difficulties can make it foolish to put "anyone they can" into full power armor. Wouldn't the ceramite and adamantium needed for all those suits of armor, be better used for the production of warships to intercept the Hive Fleets, Leman Russ tanks to blow the Tyranids from afar or crush the xenos beneath their treads, etc.?

 

 

Actually, a balanced approach is best. The problem is, as you point out, there's no easy way to know until the proverbial excrement hits the oscillating atmosphere relocating object.

[Guest]

 

Add on the fact that with the tyranids coming and the supposed need of arming every man woman and child in three segmentums, the Imperium would be foolish not to start putting anyone they can into full power armor.

Logistical difficulties can make it foolish to put "anyone they can" into full power armor. Wouldn't the ceramite and adamantium needed for all those suits of armor, be better used for the production of warships to intercept the Hive Fleets, Leman Russ tanks to blow the Tyranids from afar or crush the xenos beneath their treads, etc.?

The philosophy of "tanks can just do it all" has huge flaws. Building clearing, mass enemy numbers, low visibility, impassable terrain, transportation, fuel consumption are just a few that are applicable in 40k. In real life you have even more such as excessive damage, maintenance time, cost, production times, etc.

 

Thus is why all top military prefer a flexible mixed unit strategy now days, and probably so in 40k. SM in the lore are walking tanks that also are able to clear building slightly hindered. They are a perfect transition from infantry to tank. Not to mention able to go into environments that humans can't go. Then there is boarding actions that also heavilly favor SM. If any modern military was able to produce SMs, even a more realistic version like an iron Man, it would be a game changer for spec ops forces which SM are.

 

The tabletop just doesn't match the lore, if it did they would be WS2+ BS3+ S6 T6 2W or something.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I blame you for purchasing the following heads that I intend to build shield maidens with

Who makes these ones? I want some.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

 

Add on the fact that with the tyranids coming and the supposed need of arming every man woman and child in three segmentums, the Imperium would be foolish not to start putting anyone they can into full power armor.

Logistical difficulties can make it foolish to put "anyone they can" into full power armor. Wouldn't the ceramite and adamantium needed for all those suits of armor, be better used for the production of warships to intercept the Hive Fleets, Leman Russ tanks to blow the Tyranids from afar or crush the xenos beneath their treads, etc.?

The philosophy of "tanks can just do it all" has huge flaws. Building clearing, mass enemy numbers, low visibility, impassable terrain, transportation, fuel consumption are just a few that are applicable in 40k. In real life you have even more such as excessive damage, maintenance time, cost, production times, etc.

 

Thus is why all top military prefer a flexible mixed unit strategy now days, and probably so in 40k. SM in the lore are walking tanks that also are able to clear building slightly hindered. They are a perfect transition from infantry to tank. Not to mention able to go into environments that humans can't go. Then there is boarding actions that also heavilly favor SM. If any modern military was able to produce SMs, even a more realistic version like an iron Man, it would be a game changer for spec ops forces which SM are.

 

 

But at the same time not all the US army is Green Berets, they still have regular infantry. Elite forces take more time and resources for training (and maintenance, for advanced tech), and resources are always limited. Although building more ships is rarely a bad idea, but the importance of the Navy is sadly overlooked in most of 40k, because the game's primarily about anachronistic land warfare (whereas the Navy should be the most important arm of the Imperial military, as Navies are how you project power as a disconnected Empire). So yeah, I have to agree with Bjorn, for all we know 'throw everyone possible/worthwhile into power armour' is what the Imperium's already doing, but only X amount of power armoured troops can be logistically supported (or it's better to use the resources now for more conventional soldiers). Of course, the whole idea of 'arm every human in 3 Segmentums' is 40k (or at least, the guys proposing the scheme) failing at logistics in the first place. You can't send your entire population to war, even if you don't care about the whole 'where does the next generation come from?' issue. Somebody still has to grow and process the food for the troops, build the tanks, make the ammo, transport the supplies etc.

 

And even within the military, the majority of people aren't in combat facing roles. Estimates for modern militaries seem to max out at about a third of soldiers actually being in combat roles (with more strenuous criteria, some estimates drop it to as low as 8%). Yet we never really see this in 40k. At best you get a handful of Munitorum officials and cargo haulers, but they always seem to be a minority compared to the amount of Guard personnel around. At least Marines have their serfs, and even then the proportions seems out of whack.

 

The point of all this? Instead of female Marines, let's have more attention paid to the Munitroum and Imperial logistics (and void war, but that's a pipe dream I know). Especially with Robute 'logistics' Gulliman back and running things. Much less contentious, more interesting and actually adds some verisimilitude to the setting .

[Guest]

I blame you for purchasing the following heads that I intend to build shield maidens with

Who makes these ones? I want some.

https://wargameexclusive.com/product-category/battle-sisters/

I think here, be careful some of the stuff is nsfw. If they didn't have the goggles I would love them, goggles give it more of a mechanic or cyberpunk feeling.

[Guest]

 

 

 

Add on the fact that with the tyranids coming and the supposed need of arming every man woman and child in three segmentums, the Imperium would be foolish not to start putting anyone they can into full power armor.

 

Logistical difficulties can make it foolish to put "anyone they can" into full power armor. Wouldn't the ceramite and adamantium needed for all those suits of armor, be better used for the production of warships to intercept the Hive Fleets, Leman Russ tanks to blow the Tyranids from afar or crush the xenos beneath their treads, etc.?

The philosophy of "tanks can just do it all" has huge flaws. Building clearing, mass enemy numbers, low visibility, impassable terrain, transportation, fuel consumption are just a few that are applicable in 40k. In real life you have even more such as excessive damage, maintenance time, cost, production times, etc.

Thus is why all top military prefer a flexible mixed unit strategy now days, and probably so in 40k. SM in the lore are walking tanks that also are able to clear building slightly hindered. They are a perfect transition from infantry to tank. Not to mention able to go into environments that humans can't go. Then there is boarding actions that also heavilly favor SM. If any modern military was able to produce SMs, even a more realistic version like an iron Man, it would be a game changer for spec ops forces which SM are.

 

But at the same time not all the US army is Green Berets, they still have regular infantry. Elite forces take more time and resources for training (and maintenance, for advanced tech), and resources are always limited. Although building more ships is rarely a bad idea, but the importance of the Navy is sadly overlooked in most of 40k, because the game's primarily about anachronistic land warfare (whereas the Navy should be the most important arm of the Imperial military, as Navies are how you project power as a disconnected Empire). So yeah, I have to agree with Bjorn, for all we know 'throw everyone possible/worthwhile into power armour' is what the Imperium's already doing, but only X amount of power armoured troops can be logistically supported (or it's better to use the resources now for more conventional soldiers). Of course, the whole idea of 'arm every human in 3 Segmentums' is 40k (or at least, the guys proposing the scheme) failing at logistics in the first place. You can't send your entire population to war, even if you don't care about the whole 'where does the next generation come from?' issue. Somebody still has to grow and process the food for the troops, build the tanks, make the ammo, transport the supplies etc.

 

And even within the military, the majority of people aren't in combat facing roles. Estimates for modern militaries seem to max out at about a third of soldiers actually being in combat roles (with more strenuous criteria, some estimates drop it to as low as 8%). Yet we never really see this in 40k. At best you get a handful of Munitorum officials and cargo haulers, but they always seem to be a minority compared to the amount of Guard personnel around. At least Marines have their serfs, and even then the proportions seems out of whack.

 

The point of all this? Instead of female Marines, let's have more attention paid to the Munitroum and Imperial logistics (and void war, but that's a pipe dream I know). Especially with Robute 'logistics' Gulliman back and running things. Much less contentious, more interesting and actually adds some verisimilitude to the setting :P .

Never said all infantry are green berets. The point of the flexible mixed warfare is to have your infantry (least tained but high numbers aka IG), elite infantry (more training but still high count aka Scions), then spec ops (most amount of training and equipment poured into them aka SM). Throw in various mechanized and flight support/combat vehicles in order to create a hard to counter force.

 

The point of my Iron man point wasn't to throw everyone into a suit, is a new style of warfare that bridges your spec ops and mechanized combat vehicles. You can have a tank indoors that can wreck infantry where they hide and tanks can't go. It's a critical bichr that DARPA and other country research labs are trying to fill.

 

Absolutely agree logistics are the biggest handicap of the imperium. It's just so vast and people + warp travel are not always available. Then include the worst fear of any general and that is your supply lines are constantly under attack. Logistics are a mess in the Imperium due to so many flaws.

[TiguriusX]

I blame you for purchasing the following heads that I intend to build shield maidens with

Who makes these ones? I want some.

https://wargameexclusive.com/product-category/battle-sisters/

I think here, be careful some of the stuff is nsfw. If they didn't have the goggles I would love them, goggles give it more of a mechanic or cyberpunk feeling.

I actually buy mine from their ebay store

Comes out cheaper for me

If you purchase via ebay remember to ask for an invoice before buying. They will combine shipping on all the items and it will reduce the cost.

My last order was $40 shipping before invoice and $11 after I requested an update