Mixed CSM squads: Running basic CSMs

[BrainFireBob]

A number of the frater who run Primaris marines apparently run 1 squad of 5 Intercessors and 1 squad of 5 Helblasters together in a Repulsor. Intercessors are there to hold objectives, helblasters to annihilate things.

 

Do any of the Chaos frater do something similar, and how does it work? Since dedicated transports aren't monosquad anymore.

 

I'm thinking things like 5 Berzerkers and 5 Havocs (4 specials+Combi), or 5 CSMs and 5 Chosen, or even 5 CSMs (special+combi) and 5 CSMs (special+combi). I'm specifically wondering if it works in multiples.

 

At lunch at work, so time limited, but per BS two squads of 5 CSMs with plasmagun and combi-plasma in a rhino would only run a little over 250. Bit under 300 for Berzerkers+Havocs.

[Iron Skull Mask]

I often put a squad of 5 Berzerkers and a squad of CSM with melter gun and combi-melter in a Dreadclaw. Works fine. Have a sorcerer jump up and hide behind the CSM (who melter sth) and warp time the Berzerkers to where you want to attack.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

I play Night Lords so I frequently load up my Rhino with 2 squads aimed for anti infantry purposes. Usually I take 5 CSM with a plasma gun and combi bolter / chainsword champ and then a squad of 5 chosen with a flamer and the rest with combi bolters and chainswords (4). I can have the squads focus fire on one enemy and then finish it off with a chosen charge or split up if need be for objectives or different threats. Usually I gang up though on something though and let the trait do some work.

 

But yeah between both squads in rapid fire it puts out 26 bolter shots, D6 auto flamer hit and 2 plasma. Whatever is left gets mopped up in CC. I make sure to focus the squads on basic infantry though otherwise they do little impact on heavier stuff. Chosen for me have been a real staple since they got their chainsword and bolter combo back.

[Vykes]

@Iron Skull Mask,  think the FAQ nixed the warptime stuff for any unit that deepstrikes (Dreadclaw deepstrike, etc.  Though it's all good the turn after, if it's alive.)  Same as the Nid hive command dealy. I was using it for my Warp Talons to make sure they got in, or deepstriking termies.  

But back to the question at hand, yeah I've been doing what Iron Skull Mask and Midnight Brotherhood said, rhino and dreadclaws are full of mixed squads.  Berserkers and chose/havoc squads with combi-weapons are really common for me.  Though, I'll confess my favourites are big platoon style groups in Storm Eagles and Spartans.  14-19 CSM's with two flamer and a sergeant with a close combat kit so he can toss a grenade, 5 berserkers which usually just cause a mess, and a hero to make sure it hurts. It eats a lot of points but as a delivery mechanism I've found it wonderfully fluffy and droll that can carve a pretty decent divot.  

[Iron Father Ferrum]

@Iron Skull Mask,  think the FAQ nixed the warptime stuff for any unit that deepstrikes (Dreadclaw deepstrike, etc.  Though it's all good the turn after, if it's alive.)  Same as the Nid hive command dealy. I was using it for my Warp Talons to make sure they got in, or deepstriking termies.  

 

 

We might want to check the wording on that, actually. Shoot-arriving-reserves strats only allow you to shoot the drop pod not the disembarking unit, for instance, since the transport is what arrived from reserves not technically the contents.

[Vykes]

Eeeeeh I dunno, man.  I wouldn't want to be the one arguing that a unit arriving and embarked in a vehicle as a reinforcement, isn't a reinforcement.   Especially as they do count against the number of models deployed for the purposes of reinforcements (and any unit disembark also counts as having moved, as the transport).  I mean... you could argue that, but that's.... yeah. 

 

The FAQ in particular is: 

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.).

Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in and consolidate?

A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it can pile in and consolidate.

 

Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?

A: No.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Another thing to note is that chaos space marines squads do not have multi-meltas as a heavy weapon option.

[Vykes]

-grumbles- I really wish CSM did get multi-melta my Edmontonian hive brethren, autocannons don't quite make up for it in 40K (although they're nice to put down pirmaris). 

 

Havoc melta squads are pretty decent, and while they don't get their melta rule for range in a drop-capable situation, they still work nice for Rhinos, Raiders, and eagles (and Thunderhawks if one was so incline... though at 40K's pricepoint, it'll put you firmly into the 'eccentric' camp).  Even so, the D6 flat damage does make them a short range and nice AP makes havoc/chosen squads pretty appealing as a cornerstone killer. if you can get a mobile transport for them, that is.  Having that second squad, even just standard line marines, to engage could well save those overly pricey anti-tanks boys.  

 

Anyone find much use out of smaller cult squads in combination?  Because while havocs/chosen, berserker, and line marines deploy well in tandem; noise marines, rubric, and plague marines didn't immediately grab me.  My cult squads seem to get deployed in 10+. 

[BrainFireBob]

Seems like NM would split well with themselves, 5 with Sonics and a separate squad of 5 with ccws

[BitsHammer]

I've been back and forth on this idea, and I feel like it really comes down to the job you want the unit to do. Since they're going in a transport we can cross out heavy weapon options for the units, so for base CSM I'd look at plasma, flamers or melta (with the special for one model and the combi version for the champ). If you're hunting big things or elite things, take plasma. Flamers for hordes and squishy things, and melta for vehicles. You can even run two different load outs with one being for cracking a tank (melta, melta, krak grenade shooting attacks and season with bolters to taste) while the other unit runs flamers to use on what's inside.

 

Or the other unit could be a unit of melee chosen, or Berserkers.

 

Basically it's a great idea, you just need to give each unit a role. Otherwise you're better off running a single unit, or a single unit plus some character support.

 

That said, if you're not advancing the Rhino, take the Havoc Launcher. With it and an extra combi-bolter the Rhino is like a spiky Razorback (well, a little less powerful but with more transport capacity....you get the idea).

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I put 2x5 Berzerkers in a Dreadclaw and it seems to work, especially since I max out on Plasma Pistols and take a Power Fist and Icon in each. They show up next to a Terminator Lord, melt stuff with rerolled 1's and then charge. If one squad doesn't make it, the other should.

[BitsHammer]

I put 2x5 Berzerkers in a Dreadclaw and it seems to work, especially since I max out on Plasma Pistols and take a Power Fist and Icon in each. They show up next to a Terminator Lord, melt stuff with rerolled 1's and then charge. If one squad doesn't make it, the other should.

No Icon of Wrath for the reroll on charges?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

He mentioned them, yes, but the dice gods are finicky brother.

[BitsHammer]

He mentioned them, yes, but the dice gods are finicky brother.

 

Seriously though, I completely missed that. Must be trying to read too fast again.

 

I do find it amusing that the army named after randomness and disorder has a tool to make charges less random.

 

Thinking of charges, I saw an interesting trick in a bat rep last night: declaring charges against two different targets (in this regard they were in opposite directions of each other) and rolling the charge so that even if you fail the long charge against the target you want you can still make the easy charge against the next best target.

[Ghorgul]

Thinking of charges, I saw an interesting trick in a bat rep last night: declaring charges against two different targets (in this regard they were in opposite directions of each other) and rolling the charge so that even if you fail the long charge against the target you want you can still make the easy charge against the next best target.

This is good point, I had to go read the rules to check if this is correct (I intuitively thought above was wrong) and it is allowed. Very neat little rule special case to remember. Only real drawback is the extra overwatch, but that should hardly be a problem.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

He mentioned them, yes, but the dice gods are finicky brother.

Indeed they are. Last time I used them, both units failed charges, and then failed their rerolls.....after going badly subpar in their hitting and wounding with the Plasma Pistols, despite re-rolling 1's from the Terminator Lord. Then they died in a hail of Intercessor and Hellblaster fire. Their Dreadclaw ended up being the star of the game, constantly harassing the enemy and eating models here and there. 

[BitsHammer]

 

He mentioned them, yes, but the dice gods are finicky brother.

Indeed they are. Last time I used them, both units failed charges, and then failed their rerolls.....after going badly subpar in their hitting and wounding with the Plasma Pistols, despite re-rolling 1's from the Terminator Lord. Then they died in a hail of Intercessor and Hellblaster fire. Their Dreadclaw ended up being the star of the game, constantly harassing the enemy and eating models here and there. 

 

Just as planned.

[Trevak Dal]

The idea is simple. 3 rhinos, 2 five man squads in each, backed by 5 man raptor teams who keep up with the rhinos.

 

Move up like Strikers, hop out deploy, shoot up what needs shooting up. Combiweapon/weapon per 5. Their goal is midfield. Or hyper aggressive with havoc special weapons squads (2 5 man Po Boy hellblasters with combiplasma and 4 plasma).

 

The idea is, even though you can split fire, you probably can't completely kill every squad (who is effectively immune to moral).

 

I also got terminators wating in purple prose deepstrike reserve, with combiplasma to hopefully come in behind and get some sandwich action, get into combat maybe and hold up elements in the back line. Rhinos turn sideways and assault what needs to be assaulted if possible and if there is something nasty my csm can't take; they bungle line of sight and are nuisance units as well as transports.

 

Havocs in the back with Lascannons or missile launchers plink away at bad things with cultists in front.