Ariakas Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 So, obviously the Codex is missing this entry for us, but are there ways to make it happen? I know there’s a potential to use Index entries. Would it count as a full Master complete with DA rules and keywords? Is it just not a possibility at all? Do we just copy and paste SM? (I’m talking from a ITC tournament and/or competitive standpoint, friendly games are more likely to let you bend rules slightly to accommodate this or that model.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I see tournaments as somewhat less flexible on the use of a Master on bike, since we have Sammael and no codex entry for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariakas Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Well I know GW has specifically stated that Index entries are allowed if they do not have a corresponding updated Codex entry. The Index has Captain on Bike in the general Space Marine section, which can be assigned to any Chapter. I definitely agree that Sammael is amazing, and I generally stick to the Codex when I make tourney lists.I was just wondering if anyone has any feedback on whether or not this type of Index selection flies at tournaments they've seen? Would the Index selection fit into a Dark Angles detachment as normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 DA were able to use the Captain datasheet, but not the Captain on Bike entry, which is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 DA were able to use the Captain datasheet, but not the Captain on Bike entry, which is different. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariakas Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 DA were able to use the Captain datasheet, but not the Captain on Bike entry, which is different. Fair enough. Curiously, how do we know the difference? How do we know which Index listings are available to DA and which are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 DA were able to use the Captain datasheet, but not the Captain on Bike entry, which is different. Fair enough. Curiously, how do we know the difference? How do we know which Index listings are available to DA and which are not? Well, page 107 of Index Imperial 1 gives all the data sheets that DA could take from the index prior to our codex. Most of those made the transition to our codex plus some new units. A very few were omitted. Not looking at the books, just going off memory, I believe we only lost 3 entries from the index to the codex. Chaplain on Bike, Librarian on Bike and Techmarine on Bike... because there is no model for them currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariakas Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Aha, that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 DA were able to use the Captain datasheet, but not the Captain on Bike entry, which is different. Fair enough. Curiously, how do we know the difference? How do we know which Index listings are available to DA and which are not? Well, page 107 of Index Imperial 1 gives all the data sheets that DA could take from the index prior to our codex. Most of those made the transition to our codex plus some new units. A very few were omitted. Not looking at the books, just going off memory, I believe we only lost 3 entries from the index to the codex. Chaplain on Bike, Librarian on Bike and Techmarine on Bike... because there is no model for them currently. Not to de-rail this but can anyone explain to me why GW don’t want me kit bashing a HQ on a bike but are happy with me kit bashing a HQ in a Dread knight. The bikes even had legacy. #still annoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariakas Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Yeah I definitely agree. There should absolutely be an entry for a Ravenwing Master that isnt Sammael. Model or no, it makes no sense to leave it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Or at least a successor alternative, like how Blood Angels get Seth. It seems silly that the only alternative to a named character we can do is a replacement for Belial, who traditionally has had alternative gear loadouts anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariakas Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Especially when the model isn’t really that hard to make. It’s just the coolest guy in a biker box, with maybe a little kit bash for his loadout. What annoys me the most is vanilla SM kept the ability to run a captain on bike, but for some reason we can’t, even though we have debatably the most recognized biker chapter. (Who cares about White Scars anyway lol.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Not to de-rail this but can anyone explain to me why GW don’t want me kit bashing a HQ on a bike but are happy with me kit bashing a HQ in a Dread knight. The bikes even had legacy. #still annoyed While I agree with the Legacy argument. And I agree that it is easy to kitbash. GW got hit really hard with the Chapterhouse lawsuit. It has made a real impact on the new kits coming out. Take the 2 big Imperial Knights... a couple years ago those would have been a single kit, just like our Dark Talon / Nephilim. If we were getting our flyer today, I have no doubt it would have been sold as 2 different boxes. And this coming from the guy that would have changed the Dark Talon sprue to put the lascannons where the heavy bolters go and worked out the model as a single unit with 2 options at every hard point, with the jets underneath being an Ace Pilot (vector dancer) upgrade instead of hover. That way the Nephilim could have had rules that enabled it to get behind and stay behind enemy fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Not to de-rail this but can anyone explain to me why GW don’t want me kit bashing a HQ on a bike but are happy with me kit bashing a HQ in a Dread knight. The bikes even had legacy. #still annoyed While I agree with the Legacy argument. And I agree that it is easy to kitbash. GW got hit really hard with the Chapterhouse lawsuit. It has made a real impact on the new kits coming out. Take the 2 big Imperial Knights... a couple years ago those would have been a single kit, just like our Dark Talon / Nephilim. If we were getting our flyer today, I have no doubt it would have been sold as 2 different boxes. And this coming from the guy that would have changed the Dark Talon sprue to put the lascannons where the heavy bolters go and worked out the model as a single unit with 2 options at every hard point, with the jets underneath being an Ace Pilot (vector dancer) upgrade instead of hover. That way the Nephilim could have had rules that enabled it to get behind and stay behind enemy fighters. My admittedly limited understanding of the lawsuit was if GW make a model for it you can’t if they don’t make a model for it it’s fair game. The chapter house lawsuit makes sense until they put the master in a dread knight option in the GK codex. Also let’s be honest how money was GW losing the third parties making librarians and chaplains on bikes. Can you explain to me how the chapter house ruling effected double option kits. (Feel free to message me so as not to fill up this thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isual Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 While I agree with the Legacy argument. And I agree that it is easy to kitbash. GW got hit really hard with the Chapterhouse lawsuit. It has made a real impact on the new kits coming out. Take the 2 big Imperial Knights... a couple years ago those would have been a single kit, just like our Dark Talon / Nephilim. If we were getting our flyer today, I have no doubt it would have been sold as 2 different boxes. And this coming from the guy that would have changed the Dark Talon sprue to put the lascannons where the heavy bolters go and worked out the model as a single unit with 2 options at every hard point, with the jets underneath being an Ace Pilot (vector dancer) upgrade instead of hover. That way the Nephilim could have had rules that enabled it to get behind and stay behind enemy fighters. I don't think they got completely away from the 2 in 1 kits. I mean, just look at the custodes... they made a entire army out of just two or three kits. They have like 4 in 1 kits if you want so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkn3ssF4lls Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 It was interesting to see some things get index bound. My understanding through the underground is it was indeed in response to the lawsuits. A lot of changes to the lines are to adjust for not being able to copy right say an elf archer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'm not as familiar with the Master Dreadknight and how it differs from the regular Dreadknight. Isn't it similar to how Sableclaw and the Talonmaster are the same models with different rules and an opportunity for some artistic expression? As for the double kits... that is mostly just speculation, and primarily I think it would affect centerpiece kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 In relation to the Master in Dreadknght the month the codex dropped White dwarf had an article suggesting how to kitbash a dreadknight to make it a master by adding bits from other kits. In my mind that is the same as adding bits to a space marine bike to make it a captain, Librarian or Chaplain. You could argue that that you don’t need to add anything to a dread knight to make it a master but then how would you know. I can see the argument but as the waiter says it is wafer thin. As for the double kits I hadn’t made the connection untill now. Now you’ve suggested it I can’t think of any dual kits since the verdict. Since I have no plans to study civil law or read the full verdict I guess I will never know. It is time as Elsa would say to let it go. That’s right Frozen and Monty Python meaning of life references in the same post check out this rapidly approaching middle aged dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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