Trouble beating Necrons

[Ultramarine vet]

Hello everyone. So I have battled the Necrons 3 times, and I have lost each time. I have fielded different things every time to see what works, but so far no luck. I feel like I'm playing my tactical squads wrong? I keep putting them in rhinos due to my fear of the destruction in 8th edition, especially with all the strong hitting weapons the Necrons have to bear.

 

I can say that in each battle, I have seen lots of warriors, a monolith, a treyarch stalker (I can't withstand its guns) doomsythes, and doomsday arks. The firepower is very crippling.

 

Does anyone have good insight on how to achieve victory against these Necron lists?

[The Unseen]

Well, your running tactical squads. That's a problem.

Secondly, against any Necron list, the absolute key thing is to focus fire. If you spread wounds around, the infantry stands back up, and the tanks regen wounds every turn. So pick a target, preferably something like destroyers, immortals, anything that hits really hard, etc, and shoot it till the unit is totally gone. Then repeat. This is a good idea vs any army, but its absolutely vital vs necrons.

 

Finally, if a necron list with a monolith, a stalker, doomscythes, and doomsday arks are stomping you, its probably your list, as none of those options are very strong compared to even what marines can bring, and are some of the worst units in the necron codex.  If you aren't seeing destroyer and wraith blobs being teleported around, and immortals with tesla carbines laying down lightning so thick you could walk on it, you aren't seeing an optimized necron list, and necrons overall are pretty low on the codex totem poll. Posting your own list would probably be a good way to get advice on making your list better.

[Ultramarine vet]

Well, your running tactical squads. That's a problem.

 

Secondly, against any Necron list, the absolute key thing is to focus fire. If you spread wounds around, the infantry stands back up, and the tanks regen wounds every turn. So pick a target, preferably something like destroyers, immortals, anything that hits really hard, etc, and shoot it till the unit is totally gone. Then repeat. This is a good idea vs any army, but its absolutely vital vs necrons.

 

Finally, if a necron list with a monolith, a stalker, doomscythes, and doomsday arks are stomping you, its probably your list, as none of those options are very strong compared to even what marines can bring, and are some of the worst units in the necron codex. If you aren't seeing destroyer and wraith blobs being teleported around, and immortals with tesla carbines laying down lightning so thick you could walk on it, you aren't seeing an optimized necron list, and necrons overall are pretty low on the codex totem poll. Posting your own list would probably be a good way to get advice on making your list better.

I suppose tactical squads aren't optimal anymore? I'm brand new to this edition, so I have no idea what works and what doesn't. I'll tell you what what I brought last game.

 

Around 3,000 points

 

Captain - Teeth of terra, plasma pistol

 

Lieutenant - Powerfist, combi-plasma

 

Librarian in TA - Force stave

 

Tactical squad x10 - plasma pistol, plasma gun, plasma cannon

 

Tactical squad x10 - bolt pistol, power axe, meltagun, lascannon

 

Rhino - stormbolter, HK missile

 

Tactical squad x10 - plasma pistol, power sword, meltagun, grav-cannon

 

Rhino - stormbolter, HK missile

 

Terminator assault squad - 4 TH/SS, 1 lightning claw pair

 

Land raider redeemer - x2 flamestorm cannon, twin assault cannon

 

Company ancient - power sword

 

Company champion

 

Apothecary

 

Devastator squad - x2 missile launcher, x2 heavy bolter

 

Predator - twin lascannon, x2 lascannon

 

Predator - Auto cannon, x2 heavy bolter

 

Predator - Auto cannon, x2 heavy bolter

 

Assault squad - Thunder hammer, combat shield, plasma pistol, x2 flamer

 

Stormtalon gunship - twin assault cannon, x2 lascannon

 

Stormtalon gunship - twin assault cannon, x2 skyhammer missile

 

The stormtalons and predators were effective at taking out the vehicles. Its just there is so many warriors, and my mistake in that game was the tactical squads kind of just sat in my deployment all game, they didn't do anything really.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There is nothing wrong with Tactical Squads so long as they are properly geared and employed.

 

If you're having an issue reducing his infantry, then the answer here is to take more mass-removal weapons. I champion the Thunderfire Cannon but Whirlwinds are comparatively cheaper. I'd pull the Termies and the Assault Squads for more Devastators. Massed heavy bolters are cheap and effective.

[Ultramarine vet]

There is nothing wrong with Tactical Squads so long as they are properly geared and employed.

If you're having an issue reducing his infantry, then the answer here is to take more mass-removal weapons. I champion the Thunderfire Cannon but Whirlwinds are comparatively cheaper. I'd pull the Termies and the Assault Squads for more Devastators. Massed heavy bolters are cheap and effective.

I like the sound of that. I'll replace the termies, assault squad, and LR with more devastators and a couple of whirlwinds. Possibly a thunderfire cannon, I'll look into that one. I heard its stratagem is pretty good too.

[Kallas]

There is nothing wrong with Tactical Squads so long as they are properly geared and employed.

Well, even done right Tactical Marines are pretty crap, but gearing and utilising them effectively will make them get some stuff done, at least.

 

Plasma and Heavy Bolters are the go to, as they're not too expensive and are effective weapons.

 

Meltaguns are expensive and not particularly effective; Flamers are pretty awful for Marines (that are paying for a high BS and somehow a more expensive Flamer(?!)); Lascannons are fine, but should be used on an MSU squad at the back (ie, not in a Rhino-mounted squad) to hold rear objectives and to provide support for Devastators; Plasma Cannons are ok-ish, same deal as Lascannons for usage.

 

Sergeants can have Combis to maximise your squads firepower, which is good but can rapidly increase your cost.

[Ultramarine vet]

 

There is nothing wrong with Tactical Squads so long as they are properly geared and employed.

Well, even done right Tactical Marines are pretty crap, but gearing and utilising them effectively will make them get some stuff done, at least.

Plasma and Heavy Bolters are the go to, as they're not too expensive and are effective weapons.

Meltaguns are expensive and not particularly effective; Flamers are pretty awful for Marines (that are paying for a high BS and somehow a more expensive Flamer(?!)); Lascannons are fine, but should be used on an MSU squad at the back (ie, not in a Rhino-mounted squad) to hold rear objectives and to provide support for Devastators; Plasma Cannons are ok-ish, same deal as Lascannons for usage.

Sergeants can have Combis to maximise your squads firepower, which is good but can rapidly increase your cost.

I will say that my one of my tactical squads did a very good job of utterly destroying a 10 man unit of lychguard. Grav cannon did wonders. In terms of devastators, I have a full squad of plasma cannons. I have another devastator squad with 2 heavy bolters and 2 missile launchers. I am gonna order another squad to arm them with all heavy bolters, because I don't have enough.

 

By the way, anyone know how good devastator centurions are in this edition? I just glanced at my squad and now I'm wondering if they are effective at all?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

They're not very point efficient, or at least that's what I've read; I never jumped on the bandwagon.

[Ultramarine vet]

They're not very point efficient, or at least that's what I've read; I never jumped on the bandwagon.

Yeah, I kind of figured. Its nice they can move and shoot their heavy weapons with no penalty, but my squad is about 340 points. That is remarkably expensive indeed!

[Kallas]

Centurion Devastator cost about as much as a Dreadnought. They have waaay less resilience (3W/T5/2+ vs 8W/T7/3+), with different/better guns, but can move and shoot without penalty as you mentioned.

 

Offensively, with just the raw weapons, Centurions are more potent, but with the cost involved the same amount of Dreadnoughts will probably do better overall.

[Ultramarine vet]

Centurion Devastator cost about as much as a Dreadnought. They have waaay less resilience (3W/T5/2+ vs 8W/T7/3+), with different/better guns, but can move and shoot without penalty as you mentioned.

Offensively, with just the raw weapons, Centurions are more potent, but with the cost involved the same amount of Dreadnoughts will probably do better overall.

I agree. Although do I need drop pods or a storm raven to carry my dreadnoughts? I had set them up in a previous battle, and one got obliterated and the other was on 1 wound remaining after just turn 1. It was devastating, and I have been hesitant to try that again. Lol.

[Ultramarine vet]

Okay gentlemen, so I have been thinking of how to take out doomsday arks as quickly and efficiently as possible. What if I unloaded nothing but supercharged plasma into them? I have a devastator squad with 4 plasmacannons. I also have a tactical squad with all plasma as well. Its quantum shielding wouldn't be very effective, he would need 1s. And it would get no save. What do you guys think?

 

Just to note, I do realize that both of our lists aren't your typical competitive list, since I have tactical squads and he has doomsday arks, and doom scythes. But we are trying to have a narrative type game series, and so I try to keep my army as realistic as possible, while trying to be competitive as well. Same with him. These battles are specially important because it effects our fluff for whoever loses. Good thing these previous battles are for testing until we are more used to 8th.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Have you tried a Storm Hawk or Stalker? Arks have FLY so you hit on 2+ and icarus cannons, assault cannons, and skyhammer missiles all do damage in small chunks so he can't negate lots of it with shielding.

[Ultramarine vet]

Have you tried a Storm Hawk or Stalker? Arks have FLY so you hit on 2+ and icarus cannons, assault cannons, and skyhammer missiles all do damage in small chunks so he can't negate lots of it with shielding.

I have been eyeing the stalker for a while, been thinking of getting one of 2. I haven't tried the storm hawk, but I tried the storm talons. They did an amazing job of destroying a doomsythe, a treyarch stalker, and a doomsday ark. The quantum shielding is what prevented his 2nd doomsday ark from being destroyed. I rolled a 6 for my lascannon damage and he easily ignored .

 

Okay, so I just read everything on the storm hawk. Holy smokes, it has all kinds of weapons and like you said, it hits flyers on 2s! Everything you said checks out, and it costs almost the same amount of points as the storm talon (at least the ones I have armed), except it is a lot more survivable. I can't believe I overlooked these!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yup. They're fantastic against Tau, Eldar, and Necrons because they all have so much with FLY.

[Ultramarine vet]

Another question, do you think I should bother bringing predators again against the necrons? They are amazing vehicles and do very high amounts of damage, which might not be so good with tank hunting against the necrons.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yes. Quantum Shielding is a die roll so there's always a chance of pushing big clumps of damage through, plus lascannons and the like are still good for burning down Destroyers and C'tan anything else without Quantum Shields.

[Ultramarine vet]

This is true. It would be nice to get those huge damage amounts through. With Killshot, the autocannons would deal 4 damage, which is a 50% chance it will go through. A very respectable amount of firepower. I need to remember my Auspex scan stratagem too, because the necrons I face love to teleport right to me with lychguards and Vargard Obyron. Zahndrekh will teleport to 9" away, and then Onyron and his lychguard would teleport even closer to me, like in my face. I was quite frustrated I missed the chance for a good counter.

[Syward]

I'm having the same issue taking down Necron tanks - I was using a predator w/TLLC & 2x LC - but I'm going to try swapping the TLLC for a Auto Cannon - so frustrating to have *great* rolls on my lascannons that would otherwise nuke a vehicle only to have it ignored by the quantum shield. I'm also going to try getting my hell blasters in rapid fire range w/a capt. to overcharge. I think if I do this I can (hopfully) take out the tank in a single shooting phase, unless they get crazy low rolls on their shielding. (the one time they want to roll 1's LOL)

 

​I also face Tomb Blades so I want to keep the lascannons to use against them, although the reduced hit chance against them drives me crazy.

[Ultramarine vet]

I'm having the same issue taking down Necron tanks - I was using a predator w/TLLC & 2x LC - but I'm going to try swapping the TLLC for a Auto Cannon - so frustrating to have *great* rolls on my lascannons that would otherwise nuke a vehicle only to have it ignored by the quantum shield. I'm also going to try getting my hell blasters in rapid fire range w/a capt. to overcharge. I think if I do this I can (hopfully) take out the tank in a single shooting phase, unless they get crazy low rolls on their shielding. (the one time they want to roll 1's LOL)

 

​I also face Tomb Blades so I want to keep the lascannons to use against them, although the reduced hit chance against them drives me crazy.

Do you ever run 3 predators together? It is very effective. I usually run a predator with all lascannons, and the other 2 with predator auto cannons amd heavy bolters. Its a lot of dakka, especially combined with killshot, which adds 1 to wound rolls and damage. So a damage 3 auto cannon is now damage 4, which means he has a 50% chance to ignore the damage. Not great odds when you consider it gets 2d3 shots. The lascannons can still be valuable, as Iron Father Ferrum suggested, to get big clumps of damage through should he roll high, or to just target other hard to kill units.

 

The plasma idea is another possible option, I'm going to see if I can explore it next battle. I'm gonna try to have my full plasma cannon devastator squad with a captain/chapter master nearby unload supercharged plasma into his doomsday ark and see how it goes.

[Kallas]

Plasma Inceptors are pretty viable for vehicle hunting, to be honest. A decent sized unit (4+) with a Captain nearby (possibly also a Lieutenant) and they're doing good damage. Plasma Inceptors are rapidly becoming the best unit in Marines for me.

[OrbOfAntioch]

Just cut some stuff and throw Gulliman in there and your problems vs necrons are solved. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

LOL. Guilliman gets around Quantum Shielding, then?

[Ultramarine vet]

I just don't want to have to use Guilliman to win a game. Too cheese for me. Lol

[Syward]

 

I'm having the same issue taking down Necron tanks - I was using a predator w/TLLC & 2x LC - but I'm going to try swapping the TLLC for a Auto Cannon - so frustrating to have *great* rolls on my lascannons that would otherwise nuke a vehicle only to have it ignored by the quantum shield. I'm also going to try getting my hell blasters in rapid fire range w/a capt. to overcharge. I think if I do this I can (hopfully) take out the tank in a single shooting phase, unless they get crazy low rolls on their shielding. (the one time they want to roll 1's LOL)

 

​I also face Tomb Blades so I want to keep the lascannons to use against them, although the reduced hit chance against them drives me crazy.

Do you ever run 3 predators together? It is very effective. I usually run a predator with all lascannons, and the other 2 with predator auto cannons amd heavy bolters. Its a lot of dakka, especially combined with killshot, which adds 1 to wound rolls and damage. So a damage 3 auto cannon is now damage 4, which means he has a 50% chance to ignore the damage. Not great odds when you consider it gets 2d3 shots. The lascannons can still be valuable, as Iron Father Ferrum suggested, to get big clumps of damage through should he roll high, or to just target other hard to kill units.

 

The plasma idea is another possible option, I'm going to see if I can explore it next battle. I'm gonna try to have my full plasma cannon devastator squad with a captain/chapter master nearby unload supercharged plasma into his doomsday ark and see how it goes.

I only have 1 predator for now. I've only started playing in June. I've only played games against my 16yr old son and his Necron army. Both of our Armies are ~1250pts right now (I do have about 4K points of space marines from 4th & 5th ed, but I was only a painter/modeler at that point) We have probably played less than 10 games so far as we're learning the rules. We played our first 1000 point game this past weekend and used the tactical objectives for the 1st time. (I got ROFL-Stomped BTW - he had 100% kills by end of turn # 4) 

 

I haven't run into a Doomsday Ark yet (but that's what he wants as his next unit) Right now he runs an annihilation barge, a squad of tomb blades, a squad of wraiths & a squad of immortals & ~20 warriors. He play tested one of their flyers a few games back, which didn't seem to be that hard to deal with. But man it takes me forever to kill his tank and his wraiths. This past game was the 1st one using the tomb blades and they took out my entire hellblaster squad in a single turn and crippled my redemptor so bad that his Overlord killed it in the fight phase in the next turn. So they seem like they're going to be a PITA to deal with too. (he liked how they performed a lot and wants another squad)

 

 

Plasma Inceptors are pretty viable for vehicle hunting, to be honest. A decent sized unit (4+) with a Captain nearby (possibly also a Lieutenant) and they're doing good damage. Plasma Inceptors are rapidly becoming the best unit in Marines for me.

I haven't tried the Plasma Inceptors yes (I'll most likely will give them a go this weekend) but I've used the Hellblasters in almost every game that I've played so far (they consistently kill more than their own points cost) and I'd say that they're my favorite at the moment so I have high hopes for the Plasma Inceptors. I didn't have much luck with Inceptors with their bolt weapons though (I think that was b/c no AP + bad dice rolls LOL) so I've been hesitant to try them again.