Imperial Armour viability

[Frostglaive]

I recently acquired a small Deathwatch army. I was considering adding in a second force of regular Marines (haven't decided on chapter yet). And I was considering picking up the Imperial Armour book for marines.

 

I know of some of the units in that book, but haven't really seen most of their rules (forge world is rather rare in my local meta). My questions are:

 

- How viable in general is this IA book?

- Are there any stand-out units? What are the "must takes" out of them?

- I know Marines have access to some super-heavies. Are any of them worth purchasing?

- What should I avoid here?

[MARK0SIAN]

In general, the Forgeworld models are overcosted or underpowered. There are some good units but they’re generally too expensive for what they do/how long they will survive.

 

However, some units like the leviathan Dreadnought are really good and pretty terrifying to face. Overall though I wouldn’t build an army around the IA book, it will be too expensive in terms of points. Plus all relic units must have a non-relic unit in the same slot which can hamper list building a little, luckily Space Marines have a lot of options in every slot, it just makes taking a single relic unit impractical.

 

In short, IA units tend to be costed based on how overpowered they were in previous editions but in this edition their rules are pretty underwhelming on the whole.

[Ipsen]

Sicarans. Predators on crack.

[Vykes]

Ooo, that's a tough one Frostglaive.  But I'm always happy to see people considering forgeworld through the IA books in any capacity.  

 

Lets see, the usual caveat is that I play a lot of skinned 30K forces in 8E, Blood Angels and Black Legion (with a sprinkling of others), but they tend to use a fair bit of the IA stuff.  Like all things, the IA rules are hit and miss.  I don't think there's anything truly 'incredible' there but there are some very strong vehicles and some horrendously, insanely, incredibly overpriced and underpowered ones.  The Chapter Approved is, for the most part, the culprit here.  Naturally, the CA needs to be cast into light here: it really shifted a lot of options dramatically... like, a 700+ point model getting a 100% points increase when it was just worth its original points. 

 

The book is a little wonky, as expected of such widely disproportionate vehicle types.  In general, a lot of the smaller vehicles are generally good or outright competitive but the large Apoc-sized offerings are typically overpriced.

 

I don't think there's any 'Must Have' units though there's a good case to be made for the Leviathan Dreadnoughts (they are easy to outfit, and can cause insane amounts of damage while staying alive for a frightfully long time).  There are others that are definitely cringe worthy, but lets keep with the positive bits! 

 

For your Tanks: The Sicaran and the Sicaran Venators get my vote as exceptional fast-moving vehicles.  They got a nice stealth decrease in points, I do consider them a better attack tank than the humble predator, especially playing the positional warfare game.  The Venator is a good armour killer, and in the same vein, the Vindictor Laser Destroyer is another exceptional vehicle for killing tanks and heavy infantry.    I'll give a bit of a note that the Land Raider Proteus with the Exploratory Augury array can do some... interesting things.  Kinda a neat protective tank, and the loyalist version is heaps better than the Chaos version. 

 

For Aircraft: Xiphons are fast moving las predators and do it pretty well, Storm Eagles are a ton of fun with their big cargo holds and tough skin, the Fire Raptors were great (and still are) but are really costly. 

 

For Dreadnoughts: The chaplain dreadnought is a neat hero choice that can be a neat shock.  But the star is the Leviathan, hands down.  The Deredeo are mean enough, but not quite where they were before.  Still, they're nice fire support. The Contemptor is great, but still very pricey. 

 

For 'odd' units and transports: The Damocles is quirky, with its transport capacity of 1 and ability to generate command points and stuff like that, it's not the worst thing... it's just a very weird little tank.  The Deathrain pods are hit or miss (usually miss), rapiers are awesome little artillery units that sporting even a humble quad heavy bolter is kinda a devastator squad in a can. Javelin land speeders are pretty interesting and mount some decent armour killing guns, but they cost a ton and are still flimsy.  

 

Superheavies: A lot of these seem to suffer from, as brother Ishagu wisely said, a plot to toss the big guns out of standard games.  The Thunderhawk is bad, just... just bad.  Its under armoured, undergunned, lacks a good transport capacity, and is an absolute ton of points.  Mine hasn't seen any use since the CA incident  Stormbird, same X2.  But onto the other ground-based superheavies. Fellblades feel a little underwhelming as their armour is decent but their guns are pretty light.  The Mastadon seems interestingw with its durability and massive transport capacity, but are points heavy, undergunned, and will end up as a wreck soon enough.  There are two superheavy tanks that I can say are very good, albeit pricey... worthwhile, even so: Spartans and Falchions.  Spartans do what a Raider does, but bigger and better.  It doesn't get locked down, its a bit tougher, and it has a lot more teeth.  But with its massive transport capacity, it's an army in a can situation too as far s points go.  The other is the Falchion: I use one in my Sons of Horus and it's the same as the loyalists, "Massive albeit random devastation an overkill for one unit".  It's not the toughest, but Emperor knows the guns are horrific.  If you need just one unit dead, it is a sledgehammer.  But it better be worth it too, because it's a crazy number of points.  The Cerberus is an upgunned Sicaran Venator, good but expensive, and the Typhon... eeeeh, same general principle as the Demolisher.  It's not nearly as good as it was.  

 

Last word on it from me is beware the relic tax.  It hurts because the loyalists get limited by how many fun toys they can take. 

[CCE1981]

Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts. Outfited with 2x twin lascannons it costs a mere 16 pts over a quad lascannon Pred. For those 16 pts you get Balistic skill 2, a 2+, a 5++, you can actually hit stuff in melee, the dreadnought keyword, AND they are Heavy Support opening your overcrowded Elite slot.

[Frostglaive]

Thanks for all the info, guys.

 

I don't intend to build entire armies based around IA. I feel like that'd just be suicide in-game and in-wallet (may he rest in peace).

 

Super-heavies I doubt will happen for me anytime soon. Was just more curious than anything. The Leviathan dread I am a little curious about, seeing as how often I see it mentioned here on B&C. One of my buddies does have one, but he rolls terribly for it so I've never seen it be effective in-game. The Chaplain and Mortis Dreads I might try out. Tanks and aircraft.... I'm buying a Sicaran and Fire Raptor. Just for Rule of Cool. I love the looks of those models.

 

The Rapiers have me intrigued. Devastator Squad in a can, you say? I like that. Would they be cheaper than a dev squad or no? And what kinda weapons do they have other than a quad heavy bolter? (which still sounds awesome)

[MARK0SIAN]

The rapiers can take a quad heavy bolter, a quad launcher (2 fire modes, a mortar and a heavy 4, S8 -2ap, 3D direct shot) and a laser destroyer which can cause up to 3D6 damage if you get a good roll. The laser destroyer is the most expensive and costs 100 points but is only T5 with 4 wounds.

[Kallas]

Tarantula turrets are perfectly legit, and give you a cheap unit to put in your Fast Attack slots: useful if you want to build a Brigade with some actual points left over for the half decent units Marines actually have :P

[Ishagu]

Some useful units in Imperial Armour.

 

Spartan, Sicarans, the various Dreadnoughts, Rapier batteries, etc

 

The book is cheap also, which is a plus

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I really rate the Laser Destroyer. It's easy to convert a regular Vindicator into one too.

[Vykes]

You won't regret the Fire Raptor and Sicaran for the rule of cool (I just finished painting up a Fire Raptor for ETL, they still are awesome even if my model was sorta wonky... gotta mention that the Raptors and Eagles are a bit fiddly to work with but they result is an awesome looking air group.) 

 

Mortis and standard contemptors really do hit hard, and while I like my Leviathans, I tend to run them a bit odd (with close combat weapons and occasionally storm cannons because punching a knight to death is fun).  But a Leviathan isn't a God-Engine, but if you happen to have a good roll for invuls, they are an absolute frustration to kill.  They're essentially a walking land raider with an invul save and bad attitude that can now take hunter killer missile racks because... why not? 

 

Aye, like MARK0SIAN mentioned, the quad bolters and quad mortars are both pretty good.  I happen to really like the Quad bolters as a sort of 'platoon support battery'.  They are cheap, about 3/4 the cost of a bare heavy bolter dev squad but they have generally higher toughness and more cumulative wounds so they aren't exactly flimsy, and they can be taken in groups of up to 3.  I really don't like the laser destroyer option but the mortar is fine (The chaos C-beam cannons are terrific, though).

 

Kallas also rightly mentioned the Tarantula... they are weird little buggers :P  the Deathstorm with cannons would be absolutely fantastic against horde armies... if it didn't still follow the 9" drop rquirements and have a pitiful 12" range.  Ugh. 

[RandomMarine]

Leviathan's of all flavours are great especially Culln the Risen (buffed with MOH he's nigh unkillable)

Tarantulas are cheap and are great for deep strike denial

Scorpius whirlwind is a savage ( all whirlwinds are underrated IMO)

All the tanks bigger than a sicarin are overpriced

[Ishagu]

They used to be great. They now cost more than Imperial Knights, although they do have some synergy with certain Deathwatch strats.

[Basteala]

The Leviathan with two Storm Cannon array is a big ":cuss you" to any punchy armies with less than T7. It can delete a squad of Custodes Jetbikes, and if you run Ultramarines or Dark Angels, you can generally keep it constantly shooting even with people trying to punch it. At S7, it can threaten rhino type vehicles, and T8 and a 4+ invuln makes it hard to take out without a lot of firepower being thrown at it.

 

The downside? The range sucks. 24 inches. Deploy this thing late so you can at least alpha something important with it T1.

[Dracos]

I've bought a Raven Guard Contemptor, two sets of Sentry Guns with either Heavy Bolter or Assault Cannons as options  . . . 

 

 

 

 .  .  . and two Xiphon Interceptors, because "You never leave your wingman."

[Marshal Vespasian]

Why would I take the laser destroyer instead of a venator? I feel like for the 50 points more I get a lot of value.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Why would I take the laser destroyer instead of a venator? I feel like for the 50 points more I get a lot of value.

 

Price? I converted my Laser Destroyer, saving me much mullah!

[Marshal Vespasian]

Fair enough, but I own neither vehicle. I was just wondering, wether the laser destroyer does something amazing that I don't see. but I feel like the venators main weapon and also the rule that it doesnt suffer a penalty to shooting when moving is incredibly good. actually the latter rule is what made me think about the venator over the normal sicaran.

[Ishagu]

I can vouch for the Venator. It's the best dedicated Tank marines have access to.

[Kallas]

 .  .  . and two Xiphon Interceptors, because "You never leave your wingman."