What's a worthy ally?

[Frater Cornelius]

Hey folks. Haven't been around in a while ;)

 

Let's get to the point. I realized, that while I love the image of the common man, the playstyle of pure IG does not fit me. I hate to be sending waves of men to their death and I hate to face-tank the opponents army and hit back with what's left. I am sorry to your hardcore WWII Red Army fans, but I am too much of a softy to see my men die because someone in the Imperium had his nark on :P I also do not have the time to commit to a massive model-count army, neither do I enjoy the hectic playstyle that involves.

 

However, I would enjoy trimming the force a bit and use combined army tactics. Use Guard not as a hammer made of flesh, but use they skills to capture and hold ground, long-ranged support, logistics, mobile harassment units and so forth. Meanwhile, a force that is actually (and literally) designed for front-line combat will take the hammering. I will be getting a Freeblade Knight up and running. However, there is the question what the tip of the spear will be to the firm shaft, that is the Guard. SM or Custodes?

 

I enjoy SM, because I know the personality of the Chapters and they are familiar. However, they are a little clunky this edition. There is a reason why I stopped playing them. Custodes, on the other hand, fit into the IG line-up as well as a Bolter round into the skull of a heretic. They have synergy with the 5++ banner and some Stratagems and they can create some solid combinations with either Jetbikes and TDA setups. However, I do not know what Custodes are like. I enjoy SM like UM or BA, because they actually care about the common man. Do the Custodes? Or do they just regard the Guard as another tool to be used and discarded, much like the Inquisition does? I care for the fluffiness of that setup as much as the crunch ;)

 

Of course, if you have alternative solutions, I am willing to hear them out. However, I feel like either AC or SM are a solid addition to my IG and the future IK ;) Thoughts?

[WarriorFish]

Generally speaking the best allies are the opposite; the more "holes" they fill the better. So a tough ally that wants to close on the enemy and deal damage fits the bill, especially one who may like long ranged support they might not be able to muster. Custodes are popular because they do that very well and being so elite really benefit from the numbers Guard can provide, not to mention being very short of long ranged hitting power.

 

Marines are less so, and suffer from "early edition syndrome" unfortunately especially with their lacklustre Stratagems. That's assuming you mean C:SM as the likes of Blood Angels have more going for them and SW should benefit from being later when they arrive.

 

If you're looking for something a bit different what about Sisters? The common (wo)man with good equipment, and very much likes to get close and personal as well as needing some long ranged assistance. You'd be stuck waiting for the new model range though, but over the years I've always had good runs both lore and gameplay working Guard and Sisters together :)

[Lord Blackwood]

Knights work Well 
Custodes work Well 

Because the two of them are skew lists that can slot in and fill holes guard have as an army list.

Figure out what your Astra Militarum contingent is and what you plan to have it do, then figure out what you need your allies to do and pick the one that fits better into your point limit. 
 

[Frater Cornelius]

Knights work Well 

Custodes work Well 

 

Because the two of them are skew lists that can slot in and fill holes guard have as an army list.

 

Figure out what your Astra Militarum contingent is and what you plan to have it do, then figure out what you need your allies to do and pick the one that fits better into your point limit.

 

Well, I noticed that my IG can do pretty well at being annoying, but lack the punch the seal the deal. Imagine a football team that has a solid mid-field but is incapable of penetrating the opponent's defence in order to actually score. I enjoy having a few Infantry Squads, without going full bananas (as I said, I do not enjoy horde gameplay), the occasional heavy team, Hellhounds, Tauroxes and the odd Scion squad. I lack the heavy hitters like a Baneblade variant or a whole bucket-load of Russes. In fact, I do not enjoy Leman Russes very well. My non-aggressive IG core is about 750-1000pts, which is all about scoring, CP and long-ranged pressure. What I would need is something that replaces the BB and Russes, something that takes the fight to the enemy and forces their attention, enabling the Guard to do their long-ranged game and score the ever-living Emperor out of the VP.

Given that logic, Custodes are the best pick. They have two options to attack: Jetbike-heavy and Alarus-heavy. They have the 5++ banner and they help with Ld. They also fit into the point limit very well. SM are rather clunky in that regard. As for the fluff? No idea. That's one of the things I'd like to know more about :P Knights would be a second, but those will be added regardless of the current choice ;)

 

Generally speaking the best allies are the opposite; the more "holes" they fill the better. So a tough ally that wants to close on the enemy and deal damage fits the bill, especially one who may like long ranged support they might not be able to muster. Custodes are popular because they do that very well and being so elite really benefit from the numbers Guard can provide, not to mention being very short of long ranged hitting power.

 

Marines are less so, and suffer from "early edition syndrome" unfortunately especially with their lacklustre Stratagems. That's assuming you mean C:SM as the likes of Blood Angels have more going for them and SW should benefit from being later when they arrive.

 

If you're looking for something a bit different what about Sisters? The common (wo)man with good equipment, and very much likes to get close and personal as well as needing some long ranged assistance. You'd be stuck waiting for the new model range though, but over the years I've always had good runs both lore and gameplay working Guard and Sisters together

 

Well, I have been eyeing BA, in case that matters. As for Sisters, I'd like to stick to plastic. I noticed that I can not dedicate a lot of time to handling materials and conversions, so I would prefer to keep it simple, so plastic is generally better, because converting it is very simple and quick ;)

[Slan Drakkos]

From a fluff standpoint, go with Raven Guard, Space Wolves, or Salamanders to ally with. All of them are known for fighting with and supporting the common man of the imperium. Since Salamanders enjoy mid to close range fighting, they'd be an excellent filler for your army both from a fluff and crunch perspective. Space Wolves also fill the hole in close combat ability that IG has. Actually, they fit the bill (fluff wise) almost as well as Salamanders. Finally, Raven Guard (specifically Shrike) are known for supporting the IG and they can stay at range as well as proving to be a deterrent for some units that would want to get close to your guardsmen.

 

As far as pure crunch goes, Custodes are a very serious contender for best IG ally. Fluff wise, they're diverse and each have their own personality, so you can make them however you want.

[sairence]

In terms of pure imagery, I love seeing my Knight and two Warglaives sally out in front of my Guard forces to keep my opponent occupied. It's something that can't be ignored and will generally take a significant effort to remove.

 

Custodes might be more flexible in the same tole, but you can't beat a Knight (Lance) for sheer impressiveness.

[Kinstryfe]

Custodes are servants of The Emperor. Not the Imperium, or humanity, but specifically The Emperor. They head out into the Imperium as needed to combat threats to Him. But since the Imperium being destroyed is one of those threats, that will often put them on the same basic mission as other Imperial forces. So having Custodes fight alongside guard is fluffy, but I feel the Custodes will be treating the guard as tools to use in their mission rather than beloved brother in arms. They may even be a bit contemptuous, feeling that the guard is slowing them down, getting in the way, or just weak for not being able to handle the threat by themselves.

 

I think Knights are an interesting option, and one I've played with myself (actually I've played with them and Custodes along with guard). I do kind of like the idea of running guard infantry will knights in place of tanks, basically running the knights as being a part of the guard regiment for whatever fluffy reason. They also shift the attention from the back field where guard will usually be to wherever they are.

 

I think Custodes may give you some more flexibility, while knights may be able to be a bit fluffier to the way you want to play, not just sending in waves of men to die for The Emperor.

[Mileposter]

Another option is Genestealer Cults. Depending on how you typically structure your detachments, GSC provide the close range and potentially melee aspects too. Cult ambush helps get a good punch into unignorable range while the rest of your elements can punch from range.

 

It also offers great conversion opportunities if you aren't into actually representing xenos. And any GSC tank detachment can be treated like a Tallarn detachment with the ambush ability.

[Frater Cornelius]

@Mileposter - I prefer Xenos on the far end of my pointy stick if that's alright with you ;) Thanks for the thought though :)

 

Having thought about it and having inspected my available models, an interesting thought occured. So I have my Guard, some stuff related to the Inquisition, a Saint, Knights and now potentially some Custodes. This almost seems like a political playing field as much as a force. The Eyes of the Emperor of the Custodes could've deemed that Inquisitor a worthy ally, he in turn has access to a Cadian regiment for logistical purposes. Knights are there to uphold an alliance. It seems justifiable in terms of fluff, the army seems to have some permanency due to collaborations on a professional level and, most importantly, this feels like the Imperium is at work. Not an isolated faction with its own culture, which often feels very detached from the idea of the Imperium, but several agents coming together in a concerted effort to herald the middle finger of Imperial justice.

 

Unfortunately, I planned to make Custodes from my spare Stormcasts due to financial reasons. I wonder if I can get away with a slightly different looking set of Custodes and keep that setup, without having to write new fluff as to why some strange angelic golden men, who look like the Imperius, the avatar of the Astronomican from Talon of Horus, are tagging along :D

[Charlo]

Grey Knights give some easy access to teleportation, Psychic powers, CC + some bigger combat units?

 

Plus I know how they float your boat a bit!

[Lord Blackwood]

I just realized this is an Immersturm thread.

 

It took a minute due to the name change.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

I’m sure everyone can’t wait to see the pictures.

[Frater Cornelius]

I just realized this is an Immersturm thread.

 

It took a minute due to the name change.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

I’m sure everyone can’t wait to see the pictures.

No need to get snarky. There are already picture. Not that you'd care though ;)

[noigrim]

dunno guard lack movement and antitank I'd go with custodes bikes and laser devastators

[Harrowmaster]

dunno guard lack movement and antitank I'd go with custodes bikes and laser devastators

Mobility maybe but not AT, devil dogs, leman russ, lascannons in infantry squads, overcharged plasma to name a few.

[Diagramdude]

House Raven Castellan. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I know I've been gone, but I've been trying to keep up with the state of the game. IG aren't really missing anything this edition. We have great ranged options, Scions are better than they've ever been, and Infantry Squads are good. We still have the best tank in the game (even though it was poop for a while until the codex). We bring artillery like no one's business. We can deploy more heavy weapons at any given points level or power level than any other army. And for the first time in a long time we have our own viable in codex melee options. We have Crusaders, we have ogryns, and we have bullgryns. Ogryns are short ranged to melee, while bullgryns are straight up melee. We also now have a solid 2+ Sv unit (Bullgryns). We even have reasonably costed superheavies.

 

That said, I take Knights as allies. There is something super satisfying to me about having a trio of giant robots wading into the fray. It also helps that knights aren't as nasty in some ways as they were last edition, and bringing 3 to a big fight is fine. 

 

AC brings some melee and buffs to the table that can really help guard out, but guard really doesn't need that, since it can buff itself very well. SM of any flavor can add some stuff, but mostly it's in the form of melee. 

 

Now, Guard as allies to other factions? I'm planning on getting rid of all my SM tanks from my SW, except for my Land Raiders, and I'll probably get more Land raiders. I'm getting rid of all my C:SM fliers and keeping the SW flying shoes and drop pods. my Predator, Vindicators, and Razorbacks will be replaced with LRBT's, LRD's, and LRP's, in a Spearhead Detachment. I miss 3rd edition and this gives me some nostalgia...

 

Adding the Stormies to other armies for some cheap BS 4 dudes that can rip MEQs apart, is also viable. Guard is strong on its own and really doesn't need help. Guard can definitely help other factions. 

[Frater Cornelius]

I took a jab at a crazy-ish Custodes conversion. I suppose the final choice falls onto IG + AC + IK + the odd INQ fella? Sounds alright, I suppose ;)