Anti-xenos Strategems

[vigitant]

How have yall been doing with your anti-xenos strategems?

I've only really used the eldar and Tau ones.  There arent that many orc players in my local meta, as its pretty cutthroat competitive.
I wanted to get a sense of how people are using them, how effective they are at checking or shutting down the different xenos factions.

[vigitant]

As for my own experience:

The tau one i rarely use, but the constant threat of it has shifted games dramatically.  My local tau player rarely puts more than 1 markerlight on anything in my army.  Paying 0 CP to negate his +1?  Awesome.

 

The eldar one I've used a couple times.  I though i'd use it more, but he never really gets a chance to move his threat units into my army.  Having a high pts cost elite army makes eldar super vulnerable to everything in my list.

[Vel'Cona]

I'd also like to hear if anyone has had luck with the Ork Strategem.  It seemed interesting on paper but since DW are so good at Overwatch anyway, I wasn't sure it would be necessary.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am playing Nidz tonite... looking forward to targeting those synapse critters ! :D

[Qui-Gon]

I am playing Nidz tonite... looking forward to targeting those synapse critters !

 

You mean any of the 3 eligible targets, assuming that he takes Tyranid Primes, Neurothropes, or Malenthropes? If he doesn't take them then he's got nothing to use it on, since all other Synapse dudes are already 10+ wounds and so targettable normally.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Aren't Broodlords synaptic as well ?

[Qui-Gon]

You are correct, I forget them, because no one in my area runs them. 

[spacewatch]

I'd also like to hear if anyone has had luck with the Ork Strategem.  It seemed interesting on paper but since DW are so good at Overwatch anyway, I wasn't sure it would be necessary.

 

I play frequently against the Orcs but have not yet seen good chance to use Orc strategem. In my games it is very situational because I typically try to shoot Orc vehicles early so that there wouldn't be chances for 1-8" charges from vehicles (supported by the vehicles). On the other hand most of my min size squads are embarked inside Corvus/Razorbacks so they typically charge first. They also have Frag Cannons and VVet so charging them would be suicide anyway. This leaves max size kill-teams but they are problem too because (like you say) these units can overwatch 3-4 models which makes 9+" charges (Da Jump, Kunninn' Infiltrators/Kommandos) highly risky due to Orc strategem and it is not too hard to guess what happens if that charge fails . So in practice experienced Orc player only charges damaged kill-teams or min size Vet squads or when character or vehicle can eat overwatch and when you know this you can play accordingly.

 

I have friendly DW vs. Orc game coming this sunday and I can try to agree mission where DW is mainly holding positions and Orcs are attacking so stay tuned.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You are correct, I forget them, because no one in my area runs them. 

 

You never know... one of the mottoes of DW is "Always be prepared."

[our_baz]

 

I am playing Nidz tonite... looking forward to targeting those synapse critters ! :D

 

 

You mean any of the 3 eligible targets, assuming that he takes Tyranid Primes, Neurothropes, or Malenthropes? If he doesn't take them then he's got nothing to use it on, since all other Synapse dudes are already 10+ wounds and so targettable normally.

Regular nid warriors are also synapse as are zoats. Which 3W each.

[Qui-Gon]

Zoanthropes and Nid warriors are not "Synapse Characters" but are normal units outright, so the stratagem is entirely pointless trying to target a normal unit without the character keyword.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What a game...

 

I guess I must have hit the lottery my opponent had all the < 10 W characters with synapse... was just like shooting ducks in a barrel.

 

:D

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Fortis Killteam wrecked face... so good - I ran five (5) Intercessors with two plasma Inceptors deepstriking them... would like to add a couple Aggressors. Smash Captain came down beside them with Bane-Stormbolter taking over a flank. Vets and Watch Master did great two - I am currently running a IHB and DWFG in each squad.

[TheBigAristotle]

I used the Eldar strategem for the first time the other day agaist Drukhari Hellions and it was friggin sick.  Frag cannon wiped out 4 by himself.  My opponent was devastated. 

 

... he also forgot to use Agents of Vect, so it might not go so well next time

[Rikev]

I used the Eldar one last night but it doesn't work too well versus Harlequins. The stacking hit penalties and no Mission Tactics against dedicated transports left me hitting on 5-6 and proceeding to fail most of my wound rolls.

[Lemondish]

I used the Eldar one last night but it doesn't work too well versus Harlequins. The stacking hit penalties and no Mission Tactics against dedicated transports left me hitting on 5-6 and proceeding to fail most of my wound rolls.

I haven't played Harlequins yet - in what circumstances can they get -2 to hit?

[anarchistscourge]

 

I used the Eldar one last night but it doesn't work too well versus Harlequins. The stacking hit penalties and no Mission Tactics against dedicated transports left me hitting on 5-6 and proceeding to fail most of my wound rolls.

I haven't played Harlequins yet - in what circumstances can they get -2 to hit?

 

Actually they can get more. 

Psychic Powers:

Veil of Tears (WC 7, 18") - Targets Harlequin unit, everything is at -1 to hit that unit

Fog of Dreams (WC 6, 18") - Targets an enemy unit, they suffer -1 to hit harlequins

 

Strategem: Lightning-Fast Reflexes (2CP) When targeted by a ranged or melee weapon, subtract 1 from all hit rolls made against the unit.

 

Then all Vehicles, including the bikes have an innate -1 to hit as well

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Take knight ally with „shoot without penalties” stratagem And let them cry/die. :)

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

I used the Eldar one last night but it doesn't work too well versus Harlequins. The stacking hit penalties and no Mission Tactics against dedicated transports left me hitting on 5-6 and proceeding to fail most of my wound rolls.

I haven't played Harlequins yet - in what circumstances can they get -2 to hit?

Actually they can get more.

Psychic Powers:

Veil of Tears (WC 7, 18") - Targets Harlequin unit, everything is at -1 to hit that unit

Fog of Dreams (WC 6, 18") - Targets an enemy unit, they suffer -1 to hit harlequins

 

Strategem: Lightning-Fast Reflexes (2CP) When targeted by a ranged or melee weapon, subtract 1 from all hit rolls made against the unit.

 

Then all Vehicles, including the bikes have an innate -1 to hit as well

Okay, looked them up based on your list - the powers are infantry units only and last only until the next psychic phase, so those limitations are good to know. The Flyers have the innate effect, and can use the stratagem, but can't benefit from the powers. The infantry don't get an innate effect, but can be helped by the powers, though they aren't army wide. This will play havoc with our mission tactics lol

 

Just have to deal with the CP arms race with intercepting volley and lightning fast reflexes.

[Rikev]

I had -1 to hit on the Voidweavers then -1 to hit from the Intercepting Fire strategem to get -2. With the Infernus boltgun I was firing that with the flamer so the Heavy Bolter part ended up with -3 to hit!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It is just as bad as Invisibility back in 7th edition ... what was GW thinking ?

[TheBigAristotle]

 

 

I used the Eldar one last night but it doesn't work too well versus Harlequins. The stacking hit penalties and no Mission Tactics against dedicated transports left me hitting on 5-6 and proceeding to fail most of my wound rolls.

I haven't played Harlequins yet - in what circumstances can they get -2 to hit?

 

Actually they can get more. 

Psychic Powers:

Veil of Tears (WC 7, 18") - Targets Harlequin unit, everything is at -1 to hit that unit

Fog of Dreams (WC 6, 18") - Targets an enemy unit, they suffer -1 to hit harlequins

 

Strategem: Lightning-Fast Reflexes (2CP) When targeted by a ranged or melee weapon, subtract 1 from all hit rolls made against the unit.

 

Then all Vehicles, including the bikes have an innate -1 to hit as well

 

 

 

Classic response to this utter nonsense: b-b-but we're toughness 3!

[Kallas]

Classic response to this utter nonsense: b-b-but we're toughness 3!

I mean, Harlequins are brittle and expensive. They *are* T3, and their psychic powers aren't universally applicable (Veil of Tears only buffs one Harlequin infantry unit; Fog of Dreams debuffs one enemy unit, but only when shooting Harlequin Infantry). Shadowseers do have their aura (infantry only), and that is definitely solid.

 

But the point is, Harlequins are expensive. A Player (with an effective weapon, not a Blade) is in the 20+ points range; Starweavers are 99pts for T5/6W/4++/-1toHit while transporting 6 models (so basically a Harlequins Razorback).

 

Harlequins have survivability, but they are still fragile. Psychic Powers can fail or be denied; Shadowseer auras are powerful, but they're not omnipresent; 4++ means that they're all getting a save, even against Lascannons - although they're saving Lasguns at the same rate.

 

They're an elite costed army that can do a lot of tricks and can hit very hard, while being surprisingly resilient, but they are fragile. Don't oversimplify things.

[anarchistscourge]

With their fusion pistols in their transports they are very very quick also and can easily pop your vehicles T1. They are very very good at playing the objective game. And also due to rising crescendo do not care about being tied up in combat...mainly because they can’t be.

He way to deal with them is surround he vehicles then blow them up so they lose all the guys inside

[vigitant]

Pop their cans with SIA boltguns, and frag the guys inside.  penalties to hit dont matter when youre using frag cannons.