The State of the Chaos Range

[Warsmith Demetrios]

Greeting fellow heretics and Veterans of the Long War. I write to you today to address the state of our model range, a subject that has been, undoubtedly, beaten to death by cultists swinging baseball bats wrapped in razor-wire, but a subject worthy of discussion none the less. Now, this thought came into my head after a lengthy debate with myself after almost two years away most aspects of the hobby: is continuing my army worth it?

A blasphemous statement, i know, but when looking at how stagnant things have seemed on the Chaos side of the hobby lately, it was one I couldn't help but ponder. Not to be one to state the obvious, but our forces are ill-represented on the tabletop. Warp-infused warriors, which by most novel/codex accounts should be:

• Warped by Chaotic energies into hulking monstrosities, many of which should at least match the new Primaris-type Space Marines in height.
• Have access to esoteric weaponry designed in the vilest forges of the Dark Mechanicum, and relics from the age of the Horus Heresy in the form of ancient power armor models and weaponry, each of which corrupted by the influence of the pantheon

Note: this isn't to say that our range of models will never be the recipients of an overhaul. However now, these points, having been (as stated before) beaten to death on countless sub-threads on this forum over the years, have led me to the conclusion: GW, in fact wants us to have a somewhat outdated range for a while. But why?

My personal theory is that it has to do with two points, one based in pragmatism and the other in idealism:

• The lack of an updated Chaos Range actually bolsters GW's earnings.
• Every Chaos army, lore-wise, is supposed to be unique.

The first point to this line of thinking I developed while first mapping out the road I wanted to take for my 25th Grand Company. This was almost four years ago, when I decided I wanted my force to represent battle-hardened Veterans of the Long War, and made the necessary preparations for such an endeavor. Some purchases from Forgeworld's of MK II and III armor marks, along with the (sadly discontinued) array of ancient bolter patterns. I also wanted them to indeed be touched by the influence of the Dark Gods, and kit-bashed these models with base Chaos Space Marine heads, torsos, backpacks; you name it.

As you can easily imagine, the price-tag for this sort of project quickly increased, yet I looked at my first assembled squad of spiky ancient-marines, and found them wanting. "Not Chaos-y enough" I thought so myself, happy I hadn't yet painted up the models, leaving them open for further alterations. So what to do? "I'll wait for an update to the range, I guess?"

Then, one day after I had entered my break from the hobby, I was perusing this forum and saw some amazing conversion work done by some of my favorite hobbyists. Recasts from Dark Vengeance Chosen, greenstuff molds applied to completely unrelated models (chaos stars, armor molds, demonic faces and Chaotic trims), and heavily kitbashed models creating some of the most unique and characterful armies I had ever seen. It completed the revelation I had begun to have earlier: having Chaos players in a state of needing to pull models and bits from other armies to flesh out our armies increased sales, and by that logic, why should they stop milking that kind of cash cow?

The two prime examples of this are CSM marines and cultists, though if you want to get truly deep into it you can look at the Renegades and Heretics line from Forgeworld (and the subsequent discontinuation of models for this army). Unless you are sticking to recently-turned renegades such as Red Corsairs, then the baseline CSM kit doesn't exactly represent our poster-boys well, and even then a Red Corsair (or any freshly-turned renegade) army could do well with pulling a wide range of parts from the loyalist range. Cultists or any mortal renegade unit have yet to have receive an official kit from GW, discounting the yet-again discontinued Dark Vengeance cultists, who have only seen a mini re-release in the form of a 5 man mono-pose kit. For CSM, GW has both Forgeworld resin AND plastic kits for ancient armor marks (MK III/IV, with II most likely on the way at some point or another), thus driving the sales of these kits. The fact that Forgeworld's renegade line was discontinued in the aftermath of Genestealer cults release, and the return of Necromunda gangers, both incredibly diverse kits with a wide range of bits to pull from, was definitely not lost on me. GW is playing the long game.

Now, how does one justify this? I return to my second point: each Chaos army is unique. CSM's can come from a wide background, and no single sprue can accurately depict this. An Iron Warrior warband that hasn't taken to worship of the four? Ancient armor devoid of Chaotic mutation or heavy alteration. Want to make a cultist horde for you're Word Bearer force? Pull a bunch of Cadians, Age of Sigmar flagellants, and the as-yet unreleased House Cawdor models to build them (that bone-knife tho XD). Mutant horde? Beastmen with greenstuff mutations. A Black Legion force heavily enthralled to the Powers? Greenstuff molds from old Dark Vengeance chosen and apply the demonic growths or golden-trim monster heads wherever you wish. Perhaps, at some point, GW figured that their design team could never create a kit that would tailor to the tastes of every individual Chaos player, and why risk angering a whole base of customers when you can leave all of the work to them (and make a boatload of money while you're at it)?

Now, there is hope yet my brothers. Rumors abound of an update for our range coming within the next year or two, though whether they are valid or not is another matter entirely. The message I am trying to convey, my brothers in The Eye, is that our own imagination is the limit. We don't need shiny new models to prosecute the Long War, only our own imaginations. With some spare bits, greenstuff bits, and the occasional hit to the wallet, we can create a force that is completely unique to each individual player, and ultimately better for it.

 

[Tokugawa]

Not every player is a hobby expert.

 

e.g. For the model of my warlord, I would try my best to assemble and paint it. After finishing that, I would happily feel a sense of...achivement.

 

But for the expendable units with 50+, even 100+ models of the same category...I won't pay much money or time on that. IMO the proper products of such units should be 1-2 parts for each model,15+ model per box.

 

There is a "borderline" lies between these 2 sorts. For different people it would be different.

 

If one day, GW release a multi-parts Cultist, 10 men per box, with full head/weapons/icons option. I guess you would buy it satisfactorily. I would refuse to buy that.

[Warsmith Demetrios]

Not every player is a hobby expert.

If one day, GW release a multi-parts Cultist, 10 men per box, with full head/weapons/icons option. I guess you would buy it satisfactorily. I would refuse to buy that.

Not necessarily that I would find it satisfactory, I am merely stating my theory as to why GW has left us in the dark for so long in regards to updates to the Chaos range. If the kit was well-made, of course I would find a way to implement it into my own force . I am merely stating that I have grown content with the state of things, and no one should be so disheartened by the lack of model updates as to not start/continue a new army. Personally, my 25th Grand Company relies on well-drilled mortal auxiliaries, and therefore a group of unwashed religious fanatics don't fit the flavor. Perhaps for my future Word Bearers host however...

[Cheex]

My biggest concern isn't that our range is too small. I'm happy enough converting what I need - half of my cultists are converted from other ranges, for example.

 

No, my biggest concern is that GW will go all-in on their current trend of "if it's not an option in the box, then it doesn't exist". See Kill Team, for example: the only options we have for our basic CSM are what's in the CSM box. And I'm concerned that when GW comes out with new Chaos models, it'll be new stuff rather than revisiting old stuff.

[Dragonlover]

You're looking at a flawed dataset. Not every Chaos hobbyist is a KrautScientist or an Augustus b'Raas, but those that are will be driven to show their stuff online, be it in a plog or on a Facebook group. I know three Chaos players that do minimal to zero conversion work on their armies.

 

No, we're just a mild victim of old GW policies. I personally reckon a new Undivided range is gonna drop in the next couple of years, possibly even the next year. After all, once all the codexes have dropped they're almost certainly gonna turn to range revamps to keep sales up for another year or so before beginning the codex cycle anew.

 

Dragonlover

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

I am merely stating that I have grown content with the state of things, and no one should be so disheartened by the lack of model updates as to not start/continue a new army. Personally, my 25th Grand Company relies on well-drilled mortal auxiliaries, and therefore a group of unwashed religious fanatics don't fit the flavor. Perhaps for my future Word Bearers host however...

My Iron Warriors, along side Chaos Guards, Knight, Daemon Khorne, Death Guard & World Eater. Start 2011 to now, with over 700 models, with the vast majority of the models converted due to it been my favrioted part of the hobby & why I started collect Chaos when I started the hobby.

So...ehh... My Iron Warriors don't have 400 models, they have 700 with my Black Crusade theme in effect

5% of the models are unpainted, this show it a still on going project.

Then World Eater Khorne Berserker I'm current model for the Warhammer World campaign weekend. For the narrative of the event, the World Eater have been battle Orks for three years with no supply or reinforcement. Model use mix of FW, Tactical & the AoS Khorne models.

[Trevak Dal]

I use kroot to supplement my cultists in my chaos lists and cultists to supplement Kroot in my Tau lists.

 

I'd been gradually making a Jervis Johnson "grey marines" style army where my army can play any power armor (theoretically, though I stick with CSM mostly). Baseline was mostly csm kits and parts but I went in the opposite direction in cutting, grinding and sanding off the spikes and horns. I even cut down the 'jetpacks' on the power packs to make them more practical for a raiding force. (Not in my world eaters-though that's mostly laziness because it was intensive to trim and rotate and pin each little jet.)

 

My world eaters have more chaosyness and use regular berserker models with CSM bp/ccw arms (:cuss those monkey fists) to set them apart from my Nightblades. They have all the daemon engines and helbrutes/contemptors. The army styles are shifting, the night blades are combined arms, lots of CSM in 5 man teams backed by terminators and raptors in tanks-a basic bitch space marine army.

 

My world eaters are Berserkers, juggerlords, a daemon prince, dark apostle, exalted champion and a heldrake, defiler 2 contemptors 2 helbrutes and a horde of Berserkers in 5 man squads that gang up on units. I also run my cultists and bikers here (got to have something fast push with the heldrake, juggerlords and maulerfiends and daemon prince to take out vehicles and big nasties)

 

I'm working on a way to make use of my vehicles (tanks) between both armies (baseline paint it black, then get "extra armor" magentize it so I can swap it out depending on the army I'm playing and not have to buy multiple rhinos/razorbacks predators.

 

 

 

My Nightblades are lorewise not very chaotic. Between conflicts they enter cryosleep, their induction is based on the old Alpha Legion training regimine, and are very organized and regimented.

 

That said, they don't lay siege to planets-they are asset retrieval specialists; thieves and assassins. Not stealth like "oooh I got cloaking on muh loud power armor" but subdtle. They enter a campaign, get to their objective and peace out. They walk up and heist imperial equipment bluffing to be loyalists.

 

They are looked down on by other marines because they "aren't real marines" being inspired by the clone troopers, Spartan 2s from Halo and the Alpha Legion.

 

My World Eaters are Klingon Chaos Space Marines, and lean heavily towards the 30k legion lore. They are XII legion descendents, losing the technology for butcher's nails, excusing that by seeing them as a crutch and a lack of spiritual purity.

 

They revel in fighting, and "worship" Khorne the only way it wants (killing). Rank is made as it was in the legion, by combat.

[hushrong]

One thing that I have loved and adored about Chaos Space Marine hobbyists is the unbound limits of imagination we get to use for our minis. Whatever we want is practically at our disposal. *Cue imagination song* So I definitely agree with your ending statement Warsmith Demetrios. We can take the bone stock materials of a marine and, like the warp, twist it to our desires. There are plenty of things I see that still drop my jaw, most of them here on B&C, that get the creative juices going and spurn me on to building.

 

I will always argue that we need a refresh. New boxes of marines, havocs, and chosen. Why not, marines have a box for each equivalent and their marines and devastators got a refresh a few years back). New terminators, bikers, obliterators, and mutilators too! Give us some new kits for lords and sorcerers in terminators and power armor. And that exalted champ fella too. Then hit us up with some clampacks of characters and legion/warband upgrades. Maybe upgrades for our tanks aside from the spikey trophy racks. I honestly think if they can give us these kits with the DV aesthetics I will be pleased personally. I'd probably throw my wallet at them without hesitation. We will have the option for some seriously corrupted marines, and if any of us do not wish to use them, we have the SM range to pilfer from. Obviously I am waiting for WE and EC to get a reboot a'la their TS & DG brothers too.

 

The last thing I'd like to mention about our armies is we build them just like the CSM in the fluff do. They take what they can and make it work. That's what we are all doing so I find great humor and connection to the armies we collect and play.

[Scourged]

Can't say I agree with most of your original points. I'll precede all I will say with this: I love converting and kitbashing. I have long since believed that no two models in my armies should ever look too similar. Whether it was my Scourged warband, or my Alpha Legion, I made it a goal to have something unique to literally every model. All the way down to cultists, having chopped up and rearranged far, far, faaaar more than sanity should allow. Nothing I've done is crazy elaborate or super creative, but it's just enough to keep me happy. I love that part of the hobby. 

 

And yet... if GW dropped an honest-to-goodness set of plastic kits for Cultists, Chosen, Havocs, and even a regular power armor Lord/Sorcerer kit... I would literally buy all of them immediately. And I don't even need any of them. 

 

If I'm understanding correctly, a big part of your thesis is that GW makes more money by forcing us to kitbash. Okay... perhaps. But from your same example, even if updated kits existed, you still would have kitbashed. And so would I. And all the others. But we would have had more to work with in doing so. I'll focus on Cultists. I have... a few. And where did most of them come? EBay. Nearly every last one of them, save for the original ten from my actual purchase of Dark Vengeance. All bought second hand. And my conversion work... the vast, vast majority of the bits I used? All leftover stuff from other kits. Don't get me wrong - those projects were fun ones. But if I had an option of a 10-model Cultist kit with head and arm swap options, little bits of accessories and flair to be included as well.. I would have gladly thrown my money at that instead. GLADLY. I would have still converted, but it would have been much, much easier. 

 

I think your view of the discontinuation of the R&H kits is a bit off the mark. They aren't removing the models because we can 'just convert from Genestealers or Necromunda.' That line is going away because all of Forge World is shifting direction. Because so much, much, much more resin kits have bit the dust as well. Kits that many of us have purchased to make conversions. To personalize our units. R&H are going away because their old sculpts and their cleaning house, making room for specialty games. But even disregarding all that, there's still one more problem with this idea: the R&H kit isn't Cultists. It never was. Never has been. It was a conversion kit for Imperial Guard to make Chaotic Imperial Guard, effectively. Cultists have always been different from R&H, separate units that didn't even mix until this 8th edition Index. And now, due to having kits for neither, officially, neither units should exist in accordance to GW policies. 

 

Besides, not everyone wants to convert. Many of us do, which is why we gather on boards like this and share ideas. But so many, many more do not. That's not why they're in the hobby. They want to build a kit fast, paint it even faster, then get it on the table. And now those people have no Cultists to buy. Yeah, there's Guard and 'Stealers and Gangers, but those aren't Cultists. They are their own thing, and look like it too. They don't look Chaotic. That's a frustrating situation for folks who have no wish to start chopping up and rearranging plastic. Hell, it's frustrating for me. 

 

My final point is GW financials. They are in a great spot right now, for many reasons, but one of which stands out: new plastic. The waves and waves of new plastic kits that have bombarded us for both 40k and AoS lately has been massive. And they have sold, and sold, and sold. People want the kits, and people buy the kits, no matter what breed of hobbyist they are. Introduce plastic kits for Cultists and Chosen and Noise Marines and Havocs and our HQ units - just even leaving it here, not even thinking about updating our troops or Berzerkers or anything yet - and GW can effortlessly pour more buckets of gold into their Scrooge McDuck vault. 

 

Long story short... I disagree. GW has a lot more to gain (in more than just profits) from providing us, Asuryani, Orks, and everyone else a fully supported plastic line of models. Converters will still convert, those that don't won't, but literally everyone will benefit. 

[Scammel]

GW haven't updated swathes of the Chaos range because they are preoccupied with other projects/they're not creatively interested in Undivided at the moment/they are waiting on a few key sculpts/they have a large overhaul planned that keeps getting pushed back due to new sculpts trickling in/they are planning for a dual release and the other half isn't there yet/they want to get the god-specific factions out of the way first/project owners have left the business at inopportune times/someone at GW is having to make a case to update a range that has not sold well for years etc etc etc.

 

Take your pick. It almost certainly has nothing to do with a conspiracy to keep old, bad models on shelves.

[Celtic_cauldron]

As you mentionned, each Chaos Army is unique.

 

I have eight armies for CSM and each of them is different compared to the other:

 

- Death Guard and Thousand are based on existing or past kits;

- Wordbearers are mostly based on the regular CSM kits plus older CSM metal range;

- World Eaters are more feral (though not as feral as IP's own Berserkers) and includes more kitbashing with FW parts;

- Black Legion is a mix of CSM, loyalists and FW to represent the diversity of its origins;

- Emperor's Children are made of CSM + FW + BA + old Marauders plastic kits;

- Night Lords and Iron Warriors are based on CSM + FW with more Mk IV for Night Lords and more Mk III for Iron Warriors.

 

This representing around 800 minis just to talk about infantry.

 

In my personnal opinion, taking into consideration that GW have indeed other projects in view, I think that our own diversity in terms of how to represent our Astartes is both a blessing and a curse.

 

A blessing because it means that we have no limits when it comes to minis. Just have a look at each and any army of CSM: we can go from simple Spiky Marines to fully corrupted monsters.

 

A curse because that implies that GW will have difficulties to satisfy the complete CSM community with a single homogeneous range. Some will claim for more mutated minis, others for more HH-style Chaos Veterans of the Long War.

 

Remember: it took time for GW to clearly define the standard personnality for CSM between those conflictual archetypes that were HH-Legion Veterans, Raiders, simple Renegades or Chaotic Mutants with a power armour. It is quite normal that it takes even more time to find a good way to do so with minis. We received a complete Thousand Sons range a couple of years ago. Now we also have a Death Guard specific range. We can take a safe assumption by saying that at least World Eaters and Emperor's Children will follow the same path in the future.

 

That is an improvement. It does not solve the issue with Undivided CSM but even that issue may be solved one day.

 

Patience Brothers: this is the Long War but we shall win it anyway.

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[General Strike]

I like the designs of the chaos range, the termies and CSM kits. I'm always suprised at how much space is wasted on the CSM sprue, and the CSM and Chaos TDA are some of the worst about weapons load outs in the box.

[Sgt. Blank]

Interesting topic, this went in a completely different direction than I expected from the title.

 

While i agree is great for people to convert up their armies, I don't think this is a big source of profit for GW, that's why they don't do direct bits sales and only offer a limited number of conversion kits. They add enough new stuff to keep older kits relevant thru rules compatibility but keeping a stable range let's them optimize production and inventory and to generate revenue from sunk design and marketing costs.

 

From a business development standpoint, it's probably more desirable to offer a product with a known cost and steady sales than it is to invest in something new with some unknowns and risks.

[Kinstryfe]

I think GW has backed themselves into a conundrum with regards to the lore vs models. In the fluff there are basically three types of Chaos Astartes. One are the Cult troops, who are being slowly updated and thus aren't really part of the problem. The other two types are the non-Religios chaos worshippers and recently renegade Astartes, and religious worshippers like the Word Bearers. Many legions have aspects of both. The problem is that models like the basic CSM box are representative of the first type, while kits like Possessed are kind of representative of the other. In effect they've created dealing ranges between spiky loyalists and warp bloated monstrosities. I'm not sure how they will reconcile this short of making Renegades and Warpspawn two different factions entirely.

[Lexington]

I think the OP is letting interpretation get in the way of the facts, somewhat - Chaos Space Marine armies are rarely, if ever portrayed as all mutated, or as having outlandish armories. Usually they’re portrayed as...well, very similar to the tabletop - standard Space Marines possessing standard Heresy-era equipment.

 

Really, if anything, I’d kind of expect non-aligned Legions to stay out of the spotlight for the foreseeable future. GW’s pressed down pretty hard on Chaos being represented by the Gods and their followers. Even Abbadon’s taken a back seat to Mortarion and Magnus since the Dark Imperium. Maybe that won’t be true forever, but I wouldn’t expect new Chaos Marine models that don’t have a Primarchs to lead them.

[Gederas]

I think the OP is letting interpretation get in the way of the facts, somewhat - Chaos Space Marine armies are rarely, if ever portrayed as all mutated, or as having outlandish armories. Usually they’re portrayed as...well, very similar to the tabletop - standard Space Marines possessing standard Heresy-era equipment.

Now, the mutated thing is accurate but there's one issue with your statement here:

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/fc/BloodGorgonsArt.jpg

 

The Chaos Marine gracing the cover of the Chaos Marine codex? That's a Blood Gorgon. Which were from the 21st founding, and went Renegade only 60 years after it.

 

And then there's the Crimson Slaughter who are....

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/5/50/CrimsonSlaughterArt2.jpg

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/21/KranonArt.jpg

 

.... yeah

 

Really, if anything, I’d kind of expect non-aligned Legions to stay out of the spotlight for the foreseeable future. GW’s pressed down pretty hard on Chaos being represented by the Gods and their followers. Even Abbadon’s taken a back seat to Mortarion and Magnus since the Dark Imperium. Maybe that won’t be true forever, but I wouldn’t expect new Chaos Marine models that don’t have a Primarchs to lead them.

I get the feeling Abaddon will be getting his comeback in some form after the World Eaters and Emperor's Children get their codices, but you've a point.

 

If anything, the updated to "generic" Chaos Marines will probably bring them in line with the Crimson Slaughter's Chosen and Kranon from Dark Vengeance. And likely with Lorgar and Perturabo.

[Khornestar]

From your lips/fingers to the gods' ears/eyes. Seeing Lorgar on the tabletop in 40k would be awesome. Obviously Angron as well, but he seems more or less like a foregone conclusion within the next few years.

[Kite Senet]

I think much of the issue, as others have mentioned, is that no one sculpt will be able to fit into and satisfy all of the Chaos Legions. Take, for example, the humble Cultist: both Word Bearers and Alpha Legion have heavy emphases on Cultists, but their cultists would naturally look entirely different, with the Alpha Legion's cult highlighted by its secrecy and the Word Bearer's cult highlighting a flamboyant fanaticism. These are two directly opposed objectives for what Cultists ought to look like, and it seems improbable that any one kit could satisfy them both. The same issue runs through most of the different Chaos Legions, making it incredibly difficult for GW to create kits that fit so many visions of Chaos all at once; their current course, in highlighting individual legions one at a time, seems far better to me, even if it is very easy to become impatient waiting for your favorite legion to be released. (Assuming they do eventually get around to highlighting BL/IW/WB/AL/NL, of course, even if in a more modest capacity than recent releases.)

[Lexington]

The Chaos Marine gracing the cover of the Chaos Marine codex? That's a Blood Gorgon. Which were from the 21st founding, and went Renegade only 60 years after it.

Yup, and that's something of a problem! The iffy legacy of the 4th Edition Codex and its bizarre focus on Renegades stays with us...for whatever reason. It's never made sense with the model line, which has been geared towards the Traitor Legions since 2nd Edition. Why are these guys still using Reaper Autocannons and Combi-Bolters? Where are their Thunder Hammers and Razorbacks and Centurions? It's never made sense, but at the time time, it's a different topic - they're not the crazy daemonic arsenal of the Dark Mechanicus, just normal equipment.

 

I get the feeling Abaddon will be getting his comeback in some form after the World Eaters and Emperor's Children get their codices, but you've a point.

 

If anything, the updated to "generic" Chaos Marines will probably bring them in line with the Crimson Slaughter's Chosen and Kranon from Dark Vengeance. And likely with Lorgar and Perturabo.

Could be, it just hasn't followed the pattern we've seen so far. Things change, though. Generic Chaos just doesn't have the sort of big, flashy monsters and enormous centerpiece characters that GW seems to be primarily interested in making right now.

[Copycat Copycat]

I sort of like the outdated range. CSM aren’t exactly powerhouses on the table, and the model sets are pretty basic. But I like this. It acts as a sort of barrier to some players. Like orks, I think Chaos players for the most part do it for the love of the kitbash. I want unique models that are difficult to acquire so I don’t see my beloved heretics replicated all over the place. Just look at the loyalist boards. Those models are beautiful of course, but in my mind, they lack individuality. Assemble kit per directions, paint like the box art, yawn.

 

I frankly love that no two Chaos armies look the same. But it is comparably expensive to buy a highly individualized army. I don’t know if GW makes significantly more on us as opposed to loyalists as I buy most bits second hand.

[Deadass]

We could use a few new kits for vanilla chaos space marines in my opinion.
I don't think that the current kit has held up well - the poses are quite boring, and a lot of our loadout options are simply not included. They have to be taken from other sets, and sourcing these parts costs time and money.
It's awesome to see carefully converted armies, don't get me wrong - the B&C contains enough proof. But I think that the barrier that Copycat mentioned shouldn't exist. There are people who simply want to buy a set of miniatures and start painting. And these people might turn away because their chaos space marines look like they're exercising. I know that I did for a while, but I'm trying to circumvent that issue.

Then there's the design of the power armour. I do think that the suits themselves still look alright, but it would be cool to see them brought in line with newer depictions nevertheless. The Warp leaves no corrupt soul untouched, be it that of a millennia-old traitor legionary or that of a more recent heretic.

None of this would keep the people that want their army to be truly unique from kitbashing and converting. It would simply make the goal of creating a good-looking and impressive army a little bit easier, a little bit more convenient.

 

TL;DR: A few new kits won't stop folks from creating army masterpieces, I think it'd simply result in more CSM armies among the fans, which is always nice.

 

 

I suppose there's hope for these sorts of wishes - I haven't seen that rumor about a boxed set coming this winter debunked yet, and I'm sure that this edition will see more campaign books with miniature releases to accompany them.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

I'd like to see the basic CSM kit updated, it's not so much the variety of contents as I think you get quite a lot of bits and if you look closely you can see different marks of armour in the kit, it's more the quality of the sculpt and the detail. The trims unfortunately are the worst in this regard as sometimes they blend into the leg armour almost seamlessly meaning you have to gauge where the trim starts and ends yourself when painting. So that's what I'd like to see, it doesn't necessarily have to be DV chosen level of detail but at least detail more clearly defined and sharper.

 

On a side note what are people's hopes for the kill team faction box for us? If they release it with just basic CSM I'll be gutted. I'm hoping this is a good chance for them to release the DV cultists including the leaders and special weapons again so that we don't need to rely on ebay / 2nd hand.

[Deadass]

Not sure about our kill team. A box of cultists seems logical though - there's no way to fit a unit of ten marines into a game designed for 100 points.

[Evil Eye]

A new CSM box would be pretty cool- I actually like the old workhorse but there's no denying it is dated as all hell now. However, if we're talking dated (or non-existent) how about Khorne Berzerkers or Noise Marines? The Berzerker kit is ancient and much worse than the CSM kit IMO, and Noise Marines only exist as resin parts for the CSM kit. The Chaos Terminator kit isn't nearly as dilapidated as the standard CSM kit, at least to me, but again an update would be nice, and Khorne and Slaanesh Terminators would be extremely welcome.

 

I honestly don't mind the mismatching of the various aesthetics amongst the Chaos range (because the whole point of the forces of Chaos is that they are a disjointed, mishmashed horde with a common goal) but when we do get new models I wouldn't mind them having a slightly less blingy version of the Chosen/Raptor aesthetic. Those minis are beautiful, and with a little bit of toning down would work perfectly for the "vanilla" CSMs.

[Kite Senet]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the CSM Kill Team included both a set of CSM and 5-10 Cultists. I mean, $39+2x$10 is pretty comparable to the value of the boxes of Primaris Reivers that they're offering to Space Marine players. [Edit: Dang it, failed to realise they only get half a box.] Even if it were just CSM, I honestly wouldn't be too upset, since I find the kit quite serviceable even as I'm not in the habit of converting at all (the only real complaint I have is the aforementioned indistinctness of certain features, especially some of the tubes on the feet); and they're likely to make up the difference with terrain, which I really need more than I actually need more CSM models.