Siphoned Vigor Timing?

[Lord Momotaro]

Hi all, I've scoured the internets but can't find a definitive answer for a scenario that presented itself in my game last night.

 

In this scenario my Fulgurite Electro Priests killed my opponent's Blood Angel Smash Captain in the fight phase thus triggering his ability to use a stratagem to fight before removing his model. The debate was whether they received the benefit of Siphoned Vigor (3++) or if that didn't take effect until he was removed completely? My argument was that the act of slaying his model is what triggered his strat and thus it would trigger my ability as well but his argument was that the fight phase hadn't yet concluded thus no Siphoned Vigor. Any FAQ on this that I'm missing?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[ImperialSquishiness]

The way I read it is when the unit they attack is slain, they gain a 3++. Unsure of the wording of the stratagem, but if it says anything like "when this model is slain" then I would argue you have already slain the unit so get the invun

[Kraken]

The exact wording is as follow:

 

Siphoned Vigour: If this unit wipes out an enemy unit in the Fight phase, their invulnerable save is increased to 3+ for the rest of the battle.

 

The ability description doesn't say "at the end of the fight phase".

So you gain the 3++ the moment you slay a whole unit.

 

Meanwhile, the stratagem you mentioned happens after the unit has been slain but before it's removed.

[Frostbit3]

Without seeing the exact wordings it sounds simultaneous and the person whose turn it is would choose

[Midlight]

Without seeing the exact wordings it sounds simultaneous and the person whose turn it is would choose

Why would anyone need to choose? They can both activate at the same time. Neither stops the other and they both have the same event trigger them.

Also the exact wording is in the post above yours

[Black Knight]

The exact wording is as follow:

 

Siphoned Vigour: If this unit wipes out an enemy unit in the Fight phase, their invulnerable save is increased to 3+ for the rest of the battle.

 

The ability description doesn't say "at the end of the fight phase".

So you gain the 3++ the moment you slay a whole unit.

 

Meanwhile, the stratagem you mentioned happens after the unit has been slain but before it's removed.

 

From that wording it is the moment the unit is wiped out, the only thing that would change this is if there was wording on the stratagem or ability that said the unit counted as not wiped out. I have seen a few abilities that mention things like this but they usually have some caveat about it only counting towards a certain event(E.G. Re-assigning Custodes Warlord and Slay the Warlord).

 

If his stratagem specifically says "when slain" then you are at 3++ rules as written. If the opponent has a problem with that tell them that they are right but that they cannot use the stratagem because he isn't slain ;)

[Charlo]

Yeah they go off at the same time and no need to "choose" as there isn't a conflicting order.

 

You have slain the Captain and gain a 3++.

 

When the captain is slain (but before being removed) he can attack again though he is still slain and "wiped out".

[Lord Momotaro]

Thank you all for validating my thoughts on the subject. In my mind it was pretty clear cut but he was so sure in his interpretation it made me want to double check. In the end it mattered very little as I tabled his Imperial Soup list in 4 turns and brought our 20 game series to 17-2-1 for the Ad Mech ;)