Prot's Ultra Ultramarines super Elimination Challenge game.

[Prot]

So after taking a break from Ultramarines I have played in an ITC GT with my Deathguard and did quite well, much better than expected ( I did report on it thoroughly in my blog and the forum if anyone cares)

I’ve played a lot of Deathwatch, some AdMech, Knights and only dabbled with Ultramarines here and there. 

Well tonight I have been challenged to a super elimination challenge that will re kindle the fires ... or see them stomped by a pen uncaring, ancient threat in the form of Necrons...

This Necron army gives a very strong challenge. I eked out a win with a table wide murderfest ( on both sides) using my Deathwatch. 

The crons are a natural kryptonite for Marines, by nature they are elite infantry killers, and that’s the kind of marines I like to play. 

I expect the usual suspects; Destroyers. Wraiths, etc. Etc. 

I have tasked myself in this challenge ( and yes, the heinous Necron player wanted this) to play my Ultramarines with Guilliman and afairly aggressive, elite army , using units ( idiotic or not) that I like to use. So Centurions for instance, and... Inceptors are two examples. 

I am certain neither army will be incredibly min-maxed, as we both like our units that are considered sub optimal at times, but make no mistake, he intends to show Guilliman the true ancient power of the universe, where I just want to kick his metal jimmies in. 

My goal here is to find a solid base of fun, but at least moderately competitive Ultramarines that I won’t embarrass myself with. 

The game is tonight. I haven’t finished my list yet, but when you’re fielding the author of the codex perhaps I’ll just have him write the armylist in the car ride down to Omicron Perseid 9 !

Wish me luck, I hope....err will report victory for the Imperium! 

[Brother Tyler]

You're killing me with the gray font, Smalls.

[Captain_Krash]

My eyes :(

 

Krash

[Seahawk]

Yea, can't read it...

[Captain Idaho]

I highlighted it and read it fine but yes perhaps a change in font is in order.

 

What was your list in the end? How did it go? What was the opponent's list?

[Prot]

Sorry guys about the font! I can't tell myself since I use the other skin... it looked normal. I tried undoing it. So hopefully it looks somewhat normal.

Well this is somewhat embarrassing but I said I would come back with some details.

Basically I had BG, scouts, a scout speeder (for fun), 4 Scout bikers, a squad of Intercessors, and a tactical squad with a missile launcher.

Tigurius and a Primaris Captain for the HQ's,

3 Centurions (1 grav, 2 Las all with Bolter Nipples)

5 Hellblasters

3 Plasma Inceptors

Las Razorback

Primaris Ancient /relic banner

In the end I pulled the Scout Speeder because I couldn't figure out if I could actually deploy the scouts in it using their forward deployment rule.... I had never used it in 8th and thought for the points I'd try it, but since it seemed like I could not use it as a forward deployment I tossed it for a Primaris Apothecary and just lost the 20 pts difference.

The Necrons are always tough for me. I know some of you guys are Necron fans, but I think they're really underrated because they don't have an iWin button, but they are diverse, and have a lot of different looks.

My opponent used the Deceiver, a Monolith, a very large squad of Warriors (I think 20). And 2 small Immortal squads to round out his troops.

His HQ's were a Destroyer lord (hate this guy with the relic blade... so incredibly strong, especially with the strat that ignores your invuln on first srtike). And some other Lord on foot... adds to Living Metal. And a Lord on a Barge.

He took the staple of 6 Destroyers, and threw in 9 Lychguard which were kept in reserve. He was Mephrit I believe giving him +1 AP at half range.

Summary of the debacle... err game:

+ He gets first turn. So pregame he uses the Deceiver, and teleports 3 units towards me... the Monolith, the Deceiver and a shedload of Warriors. Most of it is midfield, I don't know what to do for fire support but I can't do anything about this, he's 12" away I don't think I can use "Auspex Scan" anyway since this is 'pregame'.

+ All I can do is sit there as the C'tan marches through the portal, and proceeds to do mortal wounds on the Razorback, and the rest of the army hits like a truck.

+ I use Tigurius' ability to make the Centurions -1 to hit. He still targets them heavily and with the -1 AP I'm saving on 3's.... I try everything I can, including a command point re-roll and somehow prevent a centurion from dying (one is 1 wound).

+ the Hellblasters are down a dude, and one wound. (they are in a bunker so negating the -1 ap). The Monolith is nasty, as are the destroyers. His shooting dice are not that hot this round though and I consider myself lucky because I lost the Scouts which were in cover, but a bit forward because I was preventing the Deceiver from re-locating big squads in front of Bobby G.) And I lose my Tactical squad to the Destroyers.

+ I try to use the Ancient to bring back anything... nothing comes back from the dead for a shot... not even the Hellblaster!

He takes a lead, with first blood and a few cards (this is maelstrom but I won't give the dirty details on that.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ My turn, Tiggy gets off Null Zone and stumbles towards the C'tan (I forgot it was 6" and since TIggy never moved we corrected that so it was 'legal') . Tiggy gets off Smite for 3 Mortals on the C'tan.

+ I drive away the Razorback, and the Primaris Captain (man are those guys useless with a power sword). I forgot how inconsequential they can be.

+ Guilliman moves in to keep his aura firing on the centurions, while approaching the Deceiver... I can't have him in my back lines because he's VERY close to my remaining Hellblasters.

+ The Headless Apothecary apparently works like you'd imagine a headless doctor to function... he doesn't bring a Hellblaster back, even with a CP re-roll.

+Without an invlun the Ultra's light up the C'tan, no assault needed.

+ I know he wants to teleport a bunch of junk through the Monolith and it tore into me pretty good.... his Destroyers were his intent, and that would have wrecked me. He didn't have the best line of site with them and they already deleted all of my tacticals. So the Centurions lit up the Monolith with Las, and the bolter nips shot down 10 of 20 Warriors, and the Grav hit the Destroyers.

All said it was super disappointing even with my re rolls. I'd dare to say that without the re-rolls my turn of shooting would have been horrific. I had to burn the Scout Biker shots at the Monolith, AND the Hellblasters overcharged.... I still could not take down the monolith! That thing absorbed a ton of firepower but it was key to the heinous Necron plans...

+ Having no more resources to waste, I had to commit a split assault with the Scout bikers into the Lord and the Monolith! Horrible idea I know, but again I had to get rid of it.... Long story short I take it down to one wound, and he fails his last save against a Scout Biker Sargeant wounding with a Mace! He CP re rolls the falied save and it still fails... monolith is down, but he uses a Strat to get out 9 Lychguard... ugh.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ I am drawing horrible cards, and the crons are starting to take off with the game points wise.

+ Lychguard move towards Guilliman, the Hellblasters, and Tigurius.

+ Destroyers move forward.

+ he rolls reanimation for the 10 dead warriors, 5 come back... great.... He rolls reanimation for the Destroyer, it comes back. I'm now pretty much boxed in with Bobby G, and I feel out shot, and out maneuvered. I wanted to play Guilliman very aggressive but I could not.. it would have been suicide with this level of firepower which was now about 12" in front of my army, just outside my deployment. I'd have to come up with a different plan...

+ The Destroyers had ideas of their own. They deleted all the centurions, BUT this time the Ancient banner worked, and the Centurions fired back, bolter nips took down another pile of warriors, 2 las cannons hit something... can't remember and the Grav took down a Destroyer. I think the centurions actually killed more tihs time by dying than in their own shooting phase.... seriously.

+ Necrons proceed to blow up Razorback that the C'tan could not finish off before it died. And I lose a few more Hellblaster... this is getting ugly.... and I have the Lychguard 8 inches away from Guilliman and Tigurius! Thankfully I did foresee this and had Null zone up in my first turn.

+ The Scout biker move was a total misplay by myself. I shot like crazy, and did a bad assault. I should have went after a cloud of Warriors... BIG mistake. What I did not want to do was assault the Monolith because of the auto mortal wounds but if you recall I did this because it had one wound left I was desperate to get rid of.... and now the Bikers would not get to retreat and use Mines because that Lord Scytye ripped them a new one. Youch.

+ Now the Lychguard roll and need an 8, of course getting an 8. They get to attack first....This game was full of explosive turns that seemed to devastate, but this was one of the crazier moments; in my mind the Lychguard MUST kill Tigurius so they retain their invuln. To me it cements a Necron victory because without Tiggy and most of the squad alive, the Lychguard can delay what I -want- to do with Guilliman because my front lines as you can see are toast.

But he splits the assault a bit, and puts 6 guys into Tiggy, with no invuln, and no way out, Tiggy only takes 2 wounds! The other Lychguard attack Guiliman.... I know mathematically Tiggy should be dead.

But there Tiggy stands, and this means the Lychguard will now have no save.... Guilliman winds up and guts 5 of them. Tiggy kills 2... lol. Guilliman took 2 wounds as well! (In otherwords the Primarch took as much damage as book nerd with no invuln!)

This is a massive moment because he only has one Lychguard left. So many times this happened to me and he'd reanimate way too much but I wouldn't have the resources to prevent it... but I couldn't let the Lychguard come back...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ Tiggy and Guilliman are a nice victory, but my army is all but gone. I am down several points, and I have my Intercessor squad slowly coming back to the game form the far end of the table, but aside from my characters all I have is 3 Hellbasters!

+ Tiggy starts by putting Might of Heroes on Guilliman, and smites the last Lychguard out of existence.

+ The cluster of modes move up, claim an objective, overcharge and kill a bunch of warriors, but not enough. Bobby G will be assaulting the destructive Destroyer Lord as a result.

+ the Plasma Inceptors come in, I play Scions of Guilliman and they over charge. They seriously underperformed and it was nothing more than bad dice. I dumped all my fire into the Destroyers.

+ I have had massive trouble denting the Destroyers, and so I now overcharge the Hellbasters and kill all of the remaining Destroyers, except one wound, on one model! I throw the kitchen sink at the last guy, and cannot kill him.

+ Guilliman blicks the Destroyer lord in CC, but he uses a CP, comes back to live, standing on the objective he needed for "defend" and scores two more points! ouch.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ With a single, one wound Destroyer left, Necrons bring 2 more back from the dead... wow.

+ Necrons need a point in the distance, the Lord that killed my Scout bikes has two wounds left and my intercessors have been shooting at him all game with no results.... he goes off for the score, but fails to advance far enough to actually grab it. This is actually huge.

+ The Barge Necron Lord doesn't like the fact my Inceptors scored some points, and almost did damage to his destroyers... so he annihilates them with some impressive firepower.

+ The Immortals back away from Guillman, I get shot up and lose 3 wounds. Guilliman is down to two wounds remaining. The Warriors kill another Hellbaster, it overcharges in death and kills a Destroyer.

+ the 'back from the dead' Destroyer Lord charges Guilliman and easily kills him. I fail my first roll to bring Guilliman back to life, I use a CP and fail it again for good measure! Gees what a game....

+ I'm down to 3 Hellblasters, 5 largely ignored Intercessors, an Ancient, Apothecary, and Tiggy.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ I draw two cards for an objective that my Intercessors can finally get to.... this is worth 3 points putting me to within 1 point of the Necron score.

+ The Apothecary brings back a Hellblaster.

+ Tigurius makes the Hellblasters -1 to hit again. Smites the Command Barge.

+ The Destroyers are killed off, and the Command Barge takes overcharged Hellblaster shots just enough to kill him and the 2 damage is perfect for getting past the shield rule, even with his use of a Strat.

+ I am one point behind the Necrons, we've both lost our Warlords.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ Necrons have 5 warriors left. At first he moves them out, and I tell him he loses if he commits to this move, and he agrees so he hides the warriors in cover, and largely is banking on my not being able to table him. So he can't score this turn, and banks on his lead.

+ My turn I shoot his last wounds off of his Lord with my Intercessors, and I ended up drawing a 2 point card for an assured victory by one point.

Crazy, crazy game.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My thoughts:

- Half my list was either underperforming and the rest of it just sucked.

- I miss played Scout bikes a lot.

- I did some moves in desperation because the dice just played against me at the wrong times, often forcing me to 'overkill' a squad to prevent reanimation.

- Tigurius won me the game.

- His Lychguard failing to kill Tigurius lost him the game.

- Guillman's re-rolls super auras made my army probably hit average, as this game I rolled really against the odds.

- Guilliman's greatest contribution was rolling forward and taking on units in close combat. I can say this was 100% his best contribution as he killed: 5 warriors, a Destroyer Lord, and 6 Lychguard. Not great, but considering my opponent's list if that stuff would have hit my lines (don't forget the C'tan), I really couldn't answer for a lot of it.

- Meprhit Dynasty is a great marine killer, the Deceiver special rule put me on my back foot in turn one and got him a huge early lead.

Over all I felt disappointed. I felt like it was the bubble game, and I didn't even feel like it worked that well. It was a total grind and I felt like my older lists with Calgar would have been more flexible, but I have to give the Necron player credit there was a LOT of flexibility in his list. But regardless chalk up a close one for the boys of Ultramar. :)

[Captain Idaho]

Good to read nonetheless.

 

What would you change if you wanted to keep a similar list in future?

 

Guilliman is a close combat beast and I really want Marines to get a decent close combat unit and cheaper Rhinos etc to accomadate his auras up close.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well played Prot.

[Seahawk]

What portal did the C'tan go through? The monolith's?

[Prot]

Well played Prot.

Thanks but.. not really. lol

 

I felt like a fool the way I built this list to play and to get backed into a corner by necrons... without Wraiths nonetheless. Guiliman would not be proud of me. ;)

 

What portal did the C'tan go through? The monolith's?

The Deceiver allows himself and up to D3 units to be re-deployed before the game starts. I may have typed it up wrong, but that's the base mechanics of what happened to my recollection. Eventually the Elite squad with the sword and boards came through (Lychguard) the actual portal from reserves.

Good to read nonetheless.

 

What would you change if you wanted to keep a similar list in future?

 

Guilliman is a close combat beast and I really want Marines to get a decent close combat unit and cheaper Rhinos etc to accomadate his auras up close.

That's the golden question right there. I was on my back foot all game. I would have actually been better if from T1 I went forward with -assault- Centurions instead of hanging back with Devastator Centurions. This mistake had me putting Guilliman up there with no real support.

 

When I built the list the idea was the 4 Scout bikers would block, hit with the sarge's Power Maul, and run with the Cluster Mines. But in reality my list was built far too thin with BG hitting the 400 it was really hard to make it work on all those levels. I had to get rid of the monolith and challenge that Lychguard squad early or my flank was done.

 

Meanwhile I felt once I saw the Monolith in the list I knew I had to sac the scouts to push him as far back as possible. That part did work, but at a cost; I lost my cheap D3 mortal wound squad from T1.

 

Since the Destroyers were conservatively placed the took out what they could see.... the Tacticals.

 

So by the time I got my turn one I felt like I was playing a 1500 point game vs. a lot more (his RP rolls were exceptional bringing back better than half what he lost in T1 and then of course I didn't have firepower to actually eliminate stuff AND take care of the Monolith.)

 

I was in such a hole with this list.... the stuff I can say did work:

 

Guilliman in CC was great... saved my bacon. Null Zone is, and always will be a staple in my lists, almost anyone that uses massed Invulns makes it VERY easy to get within the aura.

 

The Apothecary probably had his best game ever reviving 4 Hellblasters from the dead (after shooting a few of them in death with the Ancient), and healing up a centurion, and Tigurius.

 

The Razorback was the pits. Too much cost, I wanted to use it to reduce drops and block charges (I still use Rhino wall from 3rd edition....) and that part worked, but as you say better off with a Rhino.

 

I thought of Sternguard in a pod with the strat and Guilliman meeting up close. Might even be better (depends on cost) than the Plasma Inceptors. (I don't think enough people give Sternguard a shot).

 

What I felt I was missing was boots on the table that could move, and be some sort of threat. I didn't miss vehicles, and I think Centurions (at least the Dev type) are not a fit for this type of army. Too easily singled out, and at 400 points, just not doing enough.

[Brother Captain Ed]

I only play Guilliman aggressively. (Not well, mind you, but aggressively.) I can't recommend Aggressors enough. Using five of them or so to body block for Guilliman works great. They can put out a lot of dakka, they're surprisingly fast with Big G, and they are durable enough they don't evaporate quickly.

 

I usually stick them, assault bolter Intercessors, and a Dreadnaught of some kind with Guilliman. That tends to get work done. Yeah, its gonna draw fire, but whatever is near Guilliman is going to draw fire anyway.

[Prot]

I only play Guilliman aggressively. (Not well, mind you, but aggressively.) I can't recommend Aggressors enough. Using five of them or so to body block for Guilliman works great. They can put out a lot of dakka, they're surprisingly fast with Big G, and they are durable enough they don't evaporate quickly.

I usually stick them, assault bolter Intercessors, and a Dreadnaught of some kind with Guilliman. That tends to get work done. Yeah, its gonna draw fire, but whatever is near Guilliman is going to draw fire anyway.

The funny thing is, independently I use those units a lot. I actually really like the Aggressors (any type) crawling out of a Repulsor... but what really grinds my gears is I use all of those units to much greater effect with my Deathwatch. ( Maybe Bolt Aggressors get a little more mileage with Ultra but I can hide them much better with DW and they can’t be tied up)

[Brother Captain Ed]

...yes?

 

I mean, yeah...any bolter toting marine will be better as DW. SIA is a hell of a drug.

 

But since we don't have that and Guilliman still needs an escort, here we are. I suppose you could take a DW detachment of xenos hunters for Guilliman's honor guard instead of Ultramarines. You'd trade full rerolls for rerolling 1s and SIA, which is kind of a lateral move. So there's that. But as linebackers for the Primarch, Ultramarine aggressors do good work. Granted, I take them to die. But they're usually -1 to hit, and always T5. Not as good as hiding in a Repulsor or a teleportarium, but cheaper and *someone* has to stand near Guilliman.

[Prot]

I am actually thinking of reintroducing Honour Guard. With Knights everywhere, I full well know the strength of the Knight missile Strat. I have blicked enemy warlords, out of f Los, in one shot. While that can’t happen to Guilliman, it will hurt a ton.

 

If I am reading 8th ed Honour Guard correctly, on a 2+ I intercept the wound. So Guilliman’s toughness has to be used and then the damage ( full amount as I read it) is taken by the Honour Guard.

 

I didn’t want to talk about this, as I personally prefer playing through an idea first. But after playing DG I think this mechanism is far superior to Morts far more costly and less effective Deathshroud.

[Panzer]

I am actually thinking of reintroducing Honour Guard. With Knights everywhere, I full well know the strength of the Knight missile Strat. I have blicked enemy warlords, out of f Los, in one shot. While that can’t happen to Guilliman, it will hurt a ton.

 

If I am reading 8th ed Honour Guard correctly, on a 2+ I intercept the wound. So Guilliman’s toughness has to be used and then the damage ( full amount as I read it) is taken by the Honour Guard.

 

I didn’t want to talk about this, as I personally prefer playing through an idea first. But after playing DG I think this mechanism is far superior to Morts far more costly and less effective Deathshroud.

 

Unfortunately that's not completely right. You don't intercept the wound. You intercept the damage. That's because of how it's worded. It says "[...] each time a friendly CHARACTER loses a wound [...]". Damage causes a model to lose wounds.

It's a bit confusing because GW uses the term 'wound' for two different things so let me use the term 'Health Point' for a models wounds to clarify it a bit more. So the order of things would be:

An attack hits, wounds, you fail saves, the wound deals X damage, each damage causes a model to lose a Health Point. The Honour Guard rule would then read "[...] each time a friendly Character loses a Health Point [...]".

 

So, yes the attack would have to go through Guillimans defenses, however if a wound would deal 3 damage you'd have to roll 3d6 and for each 2+ your Honour Guard would suffer a Mortal wound instead.

 

Another example of how it would've been worded if it would work the way you think is with the T'au Drones. There it says: "If a INFANTRY or BATTLESUIT unit within 3" of a friendly DRONES unit is wounded by an enemy attack, roll a D6 [...]".

Notice the difference between "loses a wound" and "is wounded". It means the Drones rule kicks in before saves are taken but it converts the full 3 damage or 1d6 damage or whatever into a single Mortal wound for the Drone. Especially useful against things like Lascannons. While the Honour Guards rule kicks in after the saves step and after the amount of damage got determined so they'd suffer a LOT more casualties against a multi-damage weapon and may not even be able to swallow the whole impact.

That's why T'au Drones are such incredibly good bodyguard units and why Crisis Bodyguards and Honour Guards and similar are meh in comparison most times.

[Prot]

Gees that’s horrible. Frustrating. The wording should have greater clarity. To this day when I’m explaining the game to a new player that area always causes confusion.

 

If that’s the way they intended Honour Guard, it really doesn’t make sense. My hounour Guard jumps in front of a Lascannon, but only takes part of the hit? Ridiculous.

 

That definitely puts the Deathshroud back on top. ( I guess Tau Drones too).

 

I think I’ll email them about this because it doesn’t feel like that’s how it should work, even if it is raw.

[Panzer]

Yeah I completely agree. It's just dumb.

[I_Heart_69]

Maybe if it’s a really big missile, a whole bunch of honor guard get really worried about their boss and all jump in the way at the same time.

[Prot]

Well I have to confess after a few full games pulling out UM and DW vs certain regular opponents it’s extremely frustrating to me.

 

Yes SIA is strong, but that is the obvious. Underneath that you find the game play can be far more aggressive with the majority of DW. Plus the Strategems are much better, and the ability to mix squads for multiple benefits is huge. And there’s even more! You don’t need a Repulsor! Deepstrike is good, very good because it negates the UM need for Repulsors with a mostly Primaris army. And it even makes a Redemptor-almost- useful. Not to mention my Ven dreads are a real threat now.

 

So I think the only way I can play aggressive with Ultramarines is to keep Guilliman and go forward, yes Ed with the assistance of Aggressors. Or I take a technical look at the UM codex and try to utilize stuff that doesn’t work for DW. My problem is I really like Primaris and painting them, and DW certainly do them better, but their money unit is the Hellblasters however DW and Dark Angels make better use of those as well.... so that’s really hard to ignore.

 

I’ve done this experiment before... the unique items to UM are largely ignored even by UM die hards. Maybe Dev squads and scouts are the best of these options? I know I don’t use preds anymore, whirlwinds, or vindicators. I stopped using the flyers, Stormtalon and Stormraven. Centurions I’ve also given up on.

 

So after a few weeks of experimenting I think neither army is great for competitive play but fir every day play (since)I enjoy Primaris, I can’t seem to find an Ultra list I feel really works. Any one out there finding success without going to Guilliman while using a dose of Primaris?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I only played pure UM in the beginning of this edition then when Custodes got a codex I used a Vanguard Detachment. If you’re playing competitively I think you’re in for some disappointment if you want to just play a single faction. I remember CSM players feeling the same but they had access to some great formations yet didn’t want to use them (this is back during 7th Edition).

[Captain Idaho]

Well I've had success in non-tournament play (cheese soup or go home) using the following list:

 

Battalion

 

Captain - Teeth of Terra and Master crafted bolter (accompanying Sternguard)

 

Lieutenant - Mastercrafted Bolter and Chainsword

 

Tactical squad - 10× Marines, plasma gun, combi plasma and Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical squad - 10× Marines, plasma gun, combi plasma and Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical squad - 5× Marines, plasma gun, combi plasma

 

Sternguard - 8×

 

In Rhino

 

Apothecary

 

Vanguard

 

Librarian - bolt pistol and Staff

 

Contemptor - Kheres assault

 

Venerable Dreadnought - Twin linked Lascannon and missile Launcher

 

Vanguard - 10×, jump packs, 4 dual Lightning Claws (inc Sergeant), 3 Chainsword and Storm Shields, 3 Dual chainswords.

 

Spearhead

 

Techmarine - Bolter and Chainsword

 

Devastator squad - 6×, 4 Missile Launchers

 

Whirlwind - Vengeance missiles

 

Predator - Autocannon and Heavy Bolters

 

It is fun to play and does a bit of everything. The Apothecary is just a bit of fun and hasn't really helped much but he can be swapped for whatever easily enough.

 

The army has aggressive options. Vanguard, Sternguard and Contemptor take the fight to opponents. The army has saturation as it has a decent amount of vehicles. It has firepower and close combat capacity. It has numbers.

 

Now, the reason I respond with this is because you seem despondent regarding many choices? I think we can build lists that are varied yet provide saturation. Primaris isn't so easy to do that yet as they don't have many options particularly for things like Aggressors. Options will come I'm sure.

 

My list works. It even puts a reasonable showing in against more competetive builds. It just doesn't rely on a single element to win me the game and really becomes useful in games with decent terrain that blocks line of sight.

[Prot]

Thanks. It does look varied, and fun. My issue is when I sold my first, bigger Ultra army it went on the condition it had all my big stuff because it was being sold to MiniWargaming.com for their batreps. So it went with all my Vanguard marines, Sternguard (man I do miss my vanguard I spent a lot of time on them.)

 

That's kind of why my angle has been on the Primaris. I've enjoyed painting them and at this point I can't really field a 'traditional' list that well because my original collection is depleted. (I can't believe how expensive a Whirlwind is in Canada for example. It feels like such a rip off spending 70 bucks on a Rhino Chassis with a launcher on it!)

 

I may have to wait for the options.

 

One question though.. why the generic libby instead of Tiggy?

 

Also I think the dual dread build is very cool. I used to run that a lot.

[Captain Idaho]

Just what I have painted. As I said about the Apothecary, In can drop him for other stuff (like Tigurius).