Long Fangs with Plasma Canons = HellBlasters

[greysquigg]

Hello! 

 

 

I’ve come to conclusion that I love plasma canons. 

 

Take a full unit of Long Fangs with Plasma Canons and put a company ancient next to them. 

 

 

Pros:

 

Plasma canons are d3 shots from 36 inches. That averages out at about 2 shots per dude which is the same as a unit of hell blasters. 

 

Plasma Canons have a 36 inch range. 6 inches more than the rapid fire hellblasters, and they can potentially shot more than their primaris counterparts. 

 

When they die, and manage to get the 4+ to shoot again from the ancient, they do it with d3 shots. Hell blasters will only get the 2 shots if they are within rapid fire range.

 

They have a built in re-roll 1s which hell blasters don’t have.

 

Also optional extra of a WGPL in TDA and a storm shield. 

 

Has the potential to shoot more than the hellblasters.

 

With the use of a CP you have the chance to shoot more.

 

 

Cons.

 

Has the potential to shoot less than the hell blasters.

 

Single wound models.

 

Slightly more expensive than hellblasters.

 

They can get expensive when you add in the WGPL in TDA and they really need the invulnerable save to stay alive. 

 

Has an AP rating of -3 compared to the -4 from hellblasters.

 

-1 to hit when they move. 

 

 

To me, having the potential to do amazing firepower is an attractive proposition. It also is a fun proposition next to the company ancient. Dying to your own plasma and then doing another d3 shots, could mean your one dude is packing out 5 hits before he succumbs to his late onset bravado… 

 

“when you're a long fang and you get that look from your jarl… Time to over charge and cut your 300 year reign short on a rhino… Who wants to live anyway? for Russ!”

[TiguriusX]

Depends how you use plan to use them

 

Are you outflanking and then marching your plasma guns down their throat?  Hell blasters probably better.  You probably are sending a WL (or Bjorn) to the front as well so the rerolling is offset

 

Are you doing fire support from range?  LF probably better and don't need as big of an investment

 

LF also let you get sneaky and put a WG with a SS in the unit.  Hellblasters have no access to invulnerable saves

 

If we ever get a stratagem that lets us fire 2 times I'm bringing a 10 man hellblaster unit and sending them on the hunt

[greysquigg]

They'd be backline sat on the objective I put out of harms way. Preferably in some terrain... 

 

And honestly if they're shooting at either the hellblasters or the LF I'm happy as they aren't shooting the stormwolves filled with wulfen!

[M.Redbeard]

I actually think that Plasma Cannons may be better for Long Fangs than Las or Missile Launchers, due to the inate rerollings and hughr rate of fire. Supported by a WGBL they do great amounts of damage and can take vene the biggest things. I have had a unit put a Great Unclean One in hisblast brqcket in a single turn, and they hit everything they put their sights on like a truck. And without the WGPL they are cheaper than Hellvlaster.

 

Hellblaster though shine when abled to be combined with Cunning of the Wolf, as they get into Rapid Fire range and with support their higher AP means they will shred. I actually enjoy taking both of them.

 

But as Brother Tigurius mentioned in mainly depends on the use you plan on giving them

[Kasper_Hawser]

I actually think that Plasma Cannons may be better for Long Fangs than Las or Missile Launchers, due to the inate rerollings and hughr rate of fire. Supported by a WGBL they do great amounts of damage and can take vene the biggest things. I have had a unit put a Great Unclean One in hisblast brqcket in a single turn, and they hit everything they put their sights on like a truck. And without the WGPL they are cheaper than Hellvlaster.

 

Hellblaster though shine when abled to be combined with Cunning of the Wolf, as they get into Rapid Fire range and with support their higher AP means they will shred. I actually enjoy taking both of them.

 

But as Brother Tigurius mentioned in mainly depends on the use you plan on giving them

 

while I like the thought of a full plasma cannon squad, I dare not rely on plasma as my anti-tank. Plasma weapons of either variety, hellblaster or not, should be EMERGENCY anti tank, not main anti-tank. You still need S9 and S8 to kill T7/T8 without the risk of blowing yourself up. It still happens even with reroll 1s. Besides, I like Lascannon wounding on 3+.

[M.Redbeard]

 

 

I actually think that Plasma Cannons may be better for Long Fangs than Las or Missile Launchers, due to the inate rerollings and hughr rate of fire. Supported by a WGBL they do great amounts of damage and can take vene the biggest things. I have had a unit put a Great Unclean One in hisblast brqcket in a single turn, and they hit everything they put their sights on like a truck. And without the WGPL they are cheaper than Hellvlaster.

 

Hellblaster though shine when abled to be combined with Cunning of the Wolf, as they get into Rapid Fire range and with support their higher AP means they will shred. I actually enjoy taking both of them.

 

But as Brother Tigurius mentioned in mainly depends on the use you plan on giving them

while I like the thought of a full plasma cannon squad, I dare not rely on plasma as my anti-tank. Plasma weapons of either variety, hellblaster or not, should be EMERGENCY anti tank, not main anti-tank. You still need S9 and S8 to kill T7/T8 without the risk of blowing yourself up. It still happens even with reroll 1s. Besides, I like Lascannon wounding on 3+.

I do see the point of wanting dedicated anti-tank, but I think the higher rate of fire of Plasma Cannons in general is better and that is why I go Plasma. Aside from Knights, Land Raiders amd few units there is very little T8 in the game, so Plasma wounds also on a 3+. And while overcharging is dangerous the reroll makes relatively safe. Against T7 Plasma does more wounds, beacuse of the reliability of damage and rate of fire. I tend to go for Las when there I think there will be T8 or Hard to Hit enemies. But of course that is me.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

I actually think that Plasma Cannons may be better for Long Fangs than Las or Missile Launchers, due to the inate rerollings and hughr rate of fire. Supported by a WGBL they do great amounts of damage and can take vene the biggest things. I have had a unit put a Great Unclean One in hisblast brqcket in a single turn, and they hit everything they put their sights on like a truck. And without the WGPL they are cheaper than Hellvlaster.

 

Hellblaster though shine when abled to be combined with Cunning of the Wolf, as they get into Rapid Fire range and with support their higher AP means they will shred. I actually enjoy taking both of them.

 

But as Brother Tigurius mentioned in mainly depends on the use you plan on giving them

while I like the thought of a full plasma cannon squad, I dare not rely on plasma as my anti-tank. Plasma weapons of either variety, hellblaster or not, should be EMERGENCY anti tank, not main anti-tank. You still need S9 and S8 to kill T7/T8 without the risk of blowing yourself up. It still happens even with reroll 1s. Besides, I like Lascannon wounding on 3+.

I do see the point of wanting dedicated anti-tank, but I think the higher rate of fire of Plasma Cannons in general is better and that is why I go Plasma. Aside from Knights, Land Raiders amd few units there is very little T8 in the game, so Plasma wounds also on a 3+. And while overcharging is dangerous the reroll makes relatively safe. Against T7 Plasma does more wounds, beacuse of the reliability of damage and rate of fire. I tend to go for Las when there I think there will be T8 or Hard to Hit enemies. But of course that is me.

 

 

Just one little problem with my meta. Nearly EVERYPONE AND THEIR DOG HAS KNIGHTS AND FORGEWORLD. ARRGGHGHGHGHG!!!

 

In any case, point taken. Perhaps I will try gear my entire army to rely solely on plasma. Biggest change would be having enough Wolf Lords around to help the Long Fangs should they actually need to split fire. Maybe  a case can be made for Logan.... no, the old fart is still too slow to go anywhere without that ridiculous sleigh.

 

Have to admit the one time I used Hellblasters, it was fun killing something with absolutely no save. Actually outflanked a Hellblaster squad to kill a Repulsor from behind. Overcharged them with a wolf lord with jump pack to support them

[TiguriusX]

knights are definitely the meta now. Mixed knight won BAO and other knight armies had very good showings

[Ratherdashing]

I find Plasma lacking for AT not because of the strength, but because of 2 damage. My four LC LF squad is indispensable to me because the d6 damage has a much better chance at peeling off vehicle wounds at a fast enough rate. I do like my PGs for heavy infantry. I haven't tried plasma cannons but I have a hard time seeing them dealing damage to vehicles fast enough, regardless of toughness.

[M.Redbeard]

[sNIP]

 

Just one little problem with my meta. Nearly EVERYPONE AND THEIR DOG HAS KNIGHTS AND FORGEWORLD. ARRGGHGHGHGHG!!!

 

In any case, point taken. Perhaps I will try gear my entire army to rely solely on plasma. Biggest change would be having enough Wolf Lords around to help the Long Fangs should they actually need to split fire. Maybe a case can be made for Logan.... no, the old fart is still too slow to go anywhere without that ridiculous sleigh.

 

Have to admit the one time I used Hellblasters, it was fun killing something with absolutely no save. Actually outflanked a Hellblaster squad to kill a Repulsor from behind. Overcharged them with a wolf lord with jump pack to support them

Ah then in your meta Plasma is suboptimal. And I'd say the Wolf Lords are not needed. One basic one near the Long Fangs in enough or simply avoid overcharging when you don't have rerolls. In the end though I tend to avoid splitting fire as overkill is better than no kill.

 

And for the Hellblaster Plasma Bomb is fub. More so of you expend more for Inceptors with Plasma Exterminator. Those are 22 plasma shots in the enemy backlines (on average). A great way of clearing big stuff.

[M.Redbeard]

I find Plasma lacking for AT not because of the strength, but because of 2 damage. My four LC LF squad is indispensable to me because the d6 damage has a much better chance at peeling off vehicle wounds at a fast enough rate. I do like my PGs for heavy infantry. I haven't tried plasma cannons but I have a hard time seeing them dealing damage to vehicles fast enough, regardless of toughness.

That is a common misconception with plasma and random dice rolls. If targeting a T7 target, average rolling would favor plasma though. An unsupported Long Fang squads against a T7 target, with their rerolls of 1, make 6.9 wounds. The same squad with Las makes 6 wounds, almost a full wound less. While D6 looks attractive for the opportunity of big money on average it makes 3.5 wounds, which is less or the same tham two plasma shots. So the higher rate of fire of plasma makes it more effective against T7 or lower (and that compounds with the lower cost of the unit) . Against T8 things change but the amount you find will depend on your meta. If people are following the major tournament Lascannons are better, but for Razorback spam for example Plasma will actually bring it down faster in average.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

I find Plasma lacking for AT not because of the strength, but because of 2 damage. My four LC LF squad is indispensable to me because the d6 damage has a much better chance at peeling off vehicle wounds at a fast enough rate. I do like my PGs for heavy infantry. I haven't tried plasma cannons but I have a hard time seeing them dealing damage to vehicles fast enough, regardless of toughness.

That is a common misconception with plasma and random dice rolls. If targeting a T7 target, average rolling would favor plasma though. An unsupported Long Fang squads against a T7 target, with their rerolls of 1, make 6.9 wounds. The same squad with Las makes 6 wounds, almost a full wound less. While D6 looks attractive for the opportunity of big money on average it makes 3.5 wounds, which is less or the same tham two plasma shots. So the higher rate of fire of plasma makes it more effective against T7 or lower (and that compounds with the lower cost of the unit) . Against T8 things change but the amount you find will depend on your meta. If people are following the major tournament Lascannons are better, but for Razorback spam for example Plasma will actually bring it down faster in average.

 

 

Inceptors seem very expensive though, but I've had my game taken by 6 Assault Bolter inceptors before. Just a matter of assembling them.

[M.Redbeard]

 

 

 

I find Plasma lacking for AT not because of the strength, but because of 2 damage. My four LC LF squad is indispensable to me because the d6 damage has a much better chance at peeling off vehicle wounds at a fast enough rate. I do like my PGs for heavy infantry. I haven't tried plasma cannons but I have a hard time seeing them dealing damage to vehicles fast enough, regardless of toughness.

That is a common misconception with plasma and random dice rolls. If targeting a T7 target, average rolling would favor plasma though. An unsupported Long Fang squads against a T7 target, with their rerolls of 1, make 6.9 wounds. The same squad with Las makes 6 wounds, almost a full wound less. While D6 looks attractive for the opportunity of big money on average it makes 3.5 wounds, which is less or the same tham two plasma shots. So the higher rate of fire of plasma makes it more effective against T7 or lower (and that compounds with the lower cost of the unit) . Against T8 things change but the amount you find will depend on your meta. If people are following the major tournament Lascannons are better, but for Razorback spam for example Plasma will actually bring it down faster in average.

Inceptors seem very expensive though, but I've had my game taken by 6 Assault Bolter inceptors before. Just a matter of assembling them.

inceptors are expensive. I can't say they are an excellent choice. But FLY, integrated DS and T5 might be worth it. Also the they get a bit of extra effective range. The plasma bomb isn't the best strategy but it can be fun. The largest issues is how much it hurts to lose every single one, since they are 2 weapons each. But they are a bit fun

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

inceptors are expensive. I can't say they are an excellent choice. But FLY, integrated DS and T5 might be worth it. Also the they get a bit of extra effective range. The plasma bomb isn't the best strategy but it can be fun. The largest issues is how much it hurts to lose every single one, since they are 2 weapons each. But they are a bit fun

 

 

Those 2 weapons per model are a ridiculous amount of shots, essentially flying twin heavy bolter model. This can add up to 36 shots in a squad. Combined Chapter Master with Storm of Fire warlord trait and Imperial fists tactics AND Lieutenant, and my cheese meter shoots up the roof. It ended up neutering my Predator and razorbacks, outright destroying one at full health at one point.

 

Plasma inceptors have one other weakness: their plasma are normal AP-3 instead of AP-4 of the Hellblasters, and random D3 shots per gun. Still, it all hinges on how many times they can shoot, charge, fall back and shoot again to get back their points.

 

Sigh, from modelling point of view, still hard to wolfify the Primaris.

[Gherrick]

 

Sigh, from modelling point of view, still hard to wolfify the Primaris.

I agree. There is a vast shortage on non-wolf tail bits to SW up the primaris. I've been able to use some of the more uncommon bits like the necklaces and the larger wolf skulls on the TWC sprues. The latter I used to replace the squarish necklace on the aggressor squad leader (almost a flava flav look, but not quite as tacky), while the former I attached around the waist of other two models (they look pretty good overall). I think I'll use some of the wulfen bits as well, since there are so many of those medals on the sprues. Maybe those will go on my hellblasters.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Hate the wolf tail bits anyway, they just fall off so easily. Dont know about you but I use the GW boxes and even with the foams inside, they will snap off with the slightest bit of pressure.

 

Getting bored of the bones and fetishes. i would rather have more runic torsos or legs, like what Grey Hunters have, except more variety. Getting a bit bored using the same 6 Grey Hunter torsos again and again too.

[Gherrick]

Yeah. I kinda wish they included a set of legs without the fur loincloth, as I try to reserve than for the unit leader, but that's difficult when its 1 out of every 5 models.