Vorenus Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 If I am reading the FAQ for the Forge World Index correctly, it is now possible to take Zhufor and Khârn in the same Detachment without losing the World Eaters Legion Trait. Is that correct? Are there any other hidden effects or mechanics I should be aware of if I plan to do this? I have a list in mind that I think will be fun. Here is the bare bones outline of the list (I obviously still need to flesh this out, this is just the idea stage): World Eaters: HQ1 Zhufor the Impaler HQ2 Khârn the Betrayer HQ3 Dark Apostle (?) T1 Khorne Berzerkers T2 Khorne Berzerkers T3 Khorne Berzerkers T4 Khorne Berzerkers T5 Cultists T6 Cultists E1 Chaos Terminators FA1 Chaos Bikers FA2 Chaos Bikers HS1 Chaos Land Raider HS2 Chaos Land Raider HS3 Chaos Spartan Assault Tank Dedicated Transports: 2 Chaos Rhinos The idea would be to put Zhufor (and possibly a Dark Apostle) along with a full-strength squad of Chaos Terminators in the Chaos Spartan Assault Tank. Khârn would ride in one of the two Chaos Land Raiders with a squad of Khorne Berzerkers. The other three squads of Berzerkers would take the last Chaos Land Raider and the two Chaos Rhinos. My primary question is about the interaction of having Zhufor and Khârn in the same Detachment. If this still doesn't work for some reason, I could always split Zhufor off into a Spearhead Detachment or something. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 To my understanding as long as they share one common keyword (in this case World Eaters, and excluding the Chaos one due to new rules) then they can be in the same detachment and considered Battle Forged. So you can run them as World Eaters and still enjoy all those skull taking bonuses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 To my understanding as long as they share one common keyword (in this case World Eaters, and excluding the Chaos one due to new rules) then they can be in the same detachment and considered Battle Forged. So you can run them as World Eaters and still enjoy all those skull taking bonuses.Zhufor does not have the WORLD EATERS keyword. He only has the SKULLTAKERS keyword. You can have them in the same detachment, but this would not be a WORLD EATERS detachment but a KHORNE detachment, meaning you do not get the Butcher's Nails for any unit. Even if you could without drawbacks, I would still put Zhufor and three Land Raiders in a separate detachment as it is a free command point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 To my understanding as long as they share one common keyword (in this case World Eaters, and excluding the Chaos one due to new rules) then they can be in the same detachment and considered Battle Forged. So you can run them as World Eaters and still enjoy all those skull taking bonuses.Zhufor does not have the WORLD EATERS keyword. He only has the SKULLTAKERS keyword. You can have them in the same detachment, but this would not be a WORLD EATERS detachment but a KHORNE detachment, meaning you do not get the Butcher's Nails for any unit. Even if you could without drawbacks, I would still put Zhufor and three Land Raiders in a separate detachment as it is a free command point. I thought he had both keywords, or did they change it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 To my understanding as long as they share one common keyword (in this case World Eaters, and excluding the Chaos one due to new rules) then they can be in the same detachment and considered Battle Forged. So you can run them as World Eaters and still enjoy all those skull taking bonuses.Zhufor does not have the WORLD EATERS keyword. He only has the SKULLTAKERS keyword.You can have them in the same detachment, but this would not be a WORLD EATERS detachment but a KHORNE detachment, meaning you do not get the Butcher's Nails for any unit. Even if you could without drawbacks, I would still put Zhufor and three Land Raiders in a separate detachment as it is a free command point. This is exactly my question, this is the part that I find somewhat confusing. The FAQ/Errata says: Page 39 – Zhufor the Impaler, Faction Keywords Change this datasheet’s Faction Keywords line to read: ‘Chaos, Heretic Astartes, Khorne, World Eaters, Skulltakers’ Looking at the Legion Trait rule from p. 157 of the Codex, it appears that after the FAQ/Errata, there should be no problem with having Zhufor in Khârn in the same World Eaters Detacment--and it seems like they would all retain the World Eaters trait. What am I missing here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I opened the errata document and totally overlooked that line. Since Zhufor has the WORLD EATERS keyword so he can be taken in a WORLD EATERS detachment. And as he is a WORLD EATER INFANRY unit benefits from the Butcher's Nails as long as he is in a WORLD EATERS detachment. I still stand by the assessment that splitting the army into a a Battalion and a Vanguard detachment is the better choice. You are lacking a few units to run a Brigade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Yes, I think you're right that splitting the Chaos Land Raiders off into a Spearhead Detachment is a wise move. In reading and thinking about this more, though, it appears that although Zhufor can now be taken in a World Eaters Detachment, his aura ability wouldn't affect World Eaters. His aura ability says it affects "Skulltakers." I don't think the change in the errata can plausibly be read to fix this issue. Am I interpreting this correctly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Yes, I think you're right that splitting the Chaos Land Raiders off into a Spearhead Detachment is a wise move. In reading and thinking about this more, though, it appears that although Zhufor can now be taken in a World Eaters Detachment, his aura ability wouldn't affect World Eaters. His aura ability says it affects "Skulltakers." I don't think the change in the errata can plausibly be read to fix this issue. Am I interpreting this correctly? You are correct on all counts here. It's a little bit disappointing, but then he is cheaper than an equivalent Chaos Lord so it's not too bad. The only way his aura can affect anything other than himself is to take a detachment of Skulltakers*, which do not have an associated Legion trait and so would be treated as Renegades (Codex CSM, p157 - no, it's not like Space Marine Successor Chapters, who get to choose their parent Chapter). *Ok, so technically you could take units of Skulltakers and World Eaters in the same detachment, but then no one in the detachment would gain a Legion trait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 And a Skulltakers Detachment can't use Veterans of the Long War. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 It is really unfortunate that custom warbands don't work like custom chapters in C:SM. But it is kind of fair that you cannot benefit from both Khârn and Zhufor, just as the loyalists cannot benefit from Calgar and Helbrecht. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just take make sure that your Spearhead is full of stuff that wouldn't benefit from Veterans of the Long War anyway. Helbrutes come to mind because they wouldn't get VotLW and they really work well with that "Advance and Charge" rule for Renegades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349213-can-you-take-zhufor-and-kh%C3%A2rn-in-the-same-detachment/#findComment-5133862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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