Onager Effectiveness

[brother_b]

I've been using my Neutron laser onsger and not having much luck. I have used two of them and between low shots per turn and invulnerable saves they haven't put much work in. Granted in one lucky round of shooting I was able to destroy and Imperial guard tank in one turn. That was the one highlight.

 

I've run them with TPD rerolls every time.

 

Time to go Icarus? Any other thoughts?

[Thorakitai]

Try going one icarus and one neutron laser. I've had great success running them paired like that. Generally, when one is failing miserably, the other is doing well. It's a rare game where they both do well though.

[brother_b]

Thought about that. I'll take a 3rd because I do love the models and the look. Maybe Icarus and double neutron. That would make a spooky backfield shooting base with 2-6 robots.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Ever since the Dark Eldar codex came out the meta has shifted away from bigger tougher things toward lots of fast, little things that hit hard and have invuln saves. Things like Neutron lasers were good back when Marines, then DG, then IG were meta, but now that invuln saves are everywhere Neutron lasers just bounce. I've found as well that my Neutron lasers used to blow up stuff alot, inspire fear in my opponents, and now they don't hardly do anything for their points anymore. There have just been massive shifts in what/how people play. 

[brother_b]

Ever since the Dark Eldar codex came out the meta has shifted away from bigger tougher things toward lots of fast, little things that hit hard and have invuln saves. Things like Neutron lasers were good back when Marines, then DG, then IG were meta, but now that invuln saves are everywhere Neutron lasers just bounce. I've found as well that my Neutron lasers used to blow up stuff alot, inspire fear in my opponents, and now they don't hardly do anything for their points anymore. There have just been massive shifts in what/how people play. 

 

Great answer. 

 

I'm not facing any of that though. My opponents are Chaos, nids, IG, knights, DG, and other marines. You'd think that the neutronagers would just do better.

 

What have you taken instead, or have you gone all Icarus?

[synthaside]

Sadly the neutron laser onager just doesn't add up for me any more compared to another armiger warglave, which is cheaper has 3 more wounds and is faster. Ok it does slightly worse against t 8 because of the lower strength, within 16 it's 2d6 pick highest and with a move of 14plua advance ... Why aren't yours within 16 this in my experience is often better than minimum 3 ... And that's before you consider .. the glave can do combat ,where which the glaive wins hands down .

 

I do still take an Icarus for dedicated any air but the hellverin can do that with a strategy if. Needed ..

[Subtle Discord]

*Subtle covers his audio inputs with his hands*

 

No no no, don't start making me doubt my list! I haven't gotten to the Onagers yet and I don't want to start doubting them.

[Feral_80]

Honestly, Onagers have never performed that great, on average. That is why I either field them as 2x or 3x, or don't at all.

 

The problem is, the Icarus seems even worse to me: pitiful strength and AP on most if its shots mean it's only decent vs things like jetbikes and Venoms. Pretty limited unless you know in advance what you will face.

I've never managed to do anything with it to a 'serious' flyer...

[Subtle Discord]

Oh, I'm a believer in the idea of fielding things in twos or threes. Redundancy is a good thing. One's an easily neutralized target in many/most cases. Two become a threat. Three becomes a problem that requires some effort to deal with.

[Charlo]

Onagers are big shooty boxes on legs that have decent output and some pretty stellar stratagem support, but they need numbers to operate IMO.

 

You will need two Neutron before you do any real damage or else it's just too swingy (the amount of times I've rolled a 1 to wound.... !)

 

The Icarus array is nice because hitting on a 4+ with re-roll 1s/ Everything with Cawl is still nice with the amount of shots you get, but I'd only ever take one as a 3rd Onager unless I was facing loads of Eldar/ DEldar/ Tau/ Necrons.

 

Having the Skitarii keyword and a Broad-Spectrum Data Tether also means that for 1CP you can +2 to Hit rolls, meaning you can hit on a 2+ even when the enemy has a -1 modifier - Gnarly! Also means the Icarus Array becomes a bit of a horde shredder, easily hitting ground troops and mulching them.

 

OH and always take the extra Heavy Stubbers - Especially on the Neutronagers - dakka, dakka, dakka for the Omnissiah!

[DanPesci]

Thought about that. I'll take a 3rd because I do love the models and the look. Maybe Icarus and double neutron. That would make a spooky backfield shooting base with 2-6 robots.

 

I run 1x Icarus and 2x Neutron

 

Pretty much every turn 1 neutron will fire well and offset the other one firing badly.

 

The icarus is there to finish stuff off, or really put hurt onto flying units.

 

I then have a TPD with necromechanic (i dont run Cawl) sat with them to try keep them as high bracket as possible whilst rerolling 1s.

 

I take data tether on the icarus for that sweet +2 to hit CP (offsets its -1 to hit non fly - pretty much 2+ with rerolling 1st the whole time).

 

if i have the points (and only running small vanguard squads where the ld reroll upgrade is less useful) ill put tethers on the neutrons too. Again, the +2 to hit roll really shines when fighting anything with hit modifiers/heavy fly lists.  Sods law that the one you put the command point on will be the one that rolls only 1 shot that turn though :D

[DeStinyFiSh]

if i have the points (and only running small vanguard squads where the ld reroll upgrade is less useful) ill put tethers on the neutrons too...

 

 

Arent the Tethers for free on the Onager?

[LT_CLAWS]

 

Thought about that. I'll take a 3rd because I do love the models and the look. Maybe Icarus and double neutron. That would make a spooky backfield shooting base with 2-6 robots.

 

I run 1x Icarus and 2x Neutron

 

Pretty much every turn 1 neutron will fire well and offset the other one firing badly.

 

The icarus is there to finish stuff off, or really put hurt onto flying units.

 

I then have a TPD with necromechanic (i dont run Cawl) sat with them to try keep them as high bracket as possible whilst rerolling 1s.

 

I take data tether on the icarus for that sweet +2 to hit CP (offsets its -1 to hit non fly - pretty much 2+ with rerolling 1st the whole time).

 

if i have the points (and only running small vanguard squads where the ld reroll upgrade is less useful) ill put tethers on the neutrons too. Again, the +2 to hit roll really shines when fighting anything with hit modifiers/heavy fly lists.  Sods law that the one you put the command point on will be the one that rolls only 1 shot that turn though

 

This is my strategy and they rock! I'm scrapping armor every other turn. The key I have found is to focus on one target a turn with all the lasers. Also run the additional stubber for 6 shots for all the softer targets. 

[Tyriks]

I always had 3 plus a Knight. The Knight kept them in the game longer and helped soften up tough targets. But recent changes have not been kind to our book for sure. Rule of three hurts since Onagers can't take squadrons anymore. The neutron laser is not impressive anymore, the phosphor never was, and the Icarus is useless in half the games I play. My AdMech more and more only see light of day to support Knights, and then I only bring rangers and vanguard, not Onagers. Too much is going against them now, and there are too many superior options.

[Xisor]

I'm still really keen to get a formation of three Eradication Beamer Onagers on the go too.

 

My lone one currently is still broadly useless, but does work as a bit of a distraction for the uncanny.

 

But it looks like, really, forking out for the NL should be the big attraction.

 

My hope is that the EB+hull comes down in cost sufficiently to make the EB cheap & cheerful. That doesn't seem entirely likely if even the poster-child neutron laser is viewed as a bit... suboptimal.

[brother_b]

Did not know about the skitarii bonus shooting CP working for onagers.

 

Good input one and all thank you.

[Heliomanes]

I think a lot of us are testing out the newcomers to the AT arsenal, the Helverins and Castelan knights - and to a lesser extent the warglaives and gallants. This can result in a momentary decrease in popularity, but the addition of more knights to the meta would make the neutron lasers more valuable again.

[LT_CLAWS]

Did not know about the skitarii bonus shooting CP working for onagers.

 

Good input one and all thank you.

 

Yeah crawlers are Skitarii and the teethers are free!

[Tiger9gamer]

I been having luck with running an eradication onager along side a neutron laser one (one and one in 1k, two neutrons and one eradication in 2k). Eradication has a good strength and damage that is enough to hit all targets and act as a finisher for what the neutrons don't kill, and as stated before two neutron lasers can pick up the slack for  each other's dice rolls. these guns can still pack a punch, and all it takes is some good rolls to do amazing things, like one shot a hive tyrant with 17 wounds. but, that said most of the time I played them they need something to follow up with to finish the target since 3 damage, while great for a minimum, is often times just scratching the paint of a tank. (like a knight's missiles or skitarii plasmas) 

 

 

Last couple of games I had with them though wracked up a nice kill tally: one shadowsword over two turns, several predators, rhinos and razorbacks, a land speeder, a plague drone and a group of crawlers (counting the two crawlers killed as a feat though, those little buggers are tough as hell)

[DanPesci]

 

if i have the points (and only running small vanguard squads where the ld reroll upgrade is less useful) ill put tethers on the neutrons too...

 

 

Arent the Tethers for free on the Onager?

 

 

So they are! think i was getting confused between them and stubber costs ;)