Knights, and GW event policies.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Honestly, I don't mind it, Ultramarines should be blue, so it's alright.

Ultramarines should be blue, I agree.

 

But just because I have painted my Marines blue, why do I have to field them as Ultramarines?

 

 

That's not what the ruling says though. If you paint your Marines blue, and have their Chapter symbol as a white U, then yeah, they're Ultramarines. If they're blue marines with a dragon as their Chapter symbol, then you can still pick whatever you want.

[Schlitzaf]

Basically it’s player convience I imagine espacially in super large megabattles. And while I know no likes to hear it, one of the biggest boons of not picking ‘official’ chapters and otherwise is choosing your preferred tactics. Through what is annoying tbh is losing that tactics associated relic and sometimes warlord trait.

 

(Through I honestly feel for successors or Chapters not Ultras or Fists, losing the Warlord Trait isn’t that big of a deal). Really the chapters and armies most boned by this are Blood Angel and Chaos Marines (sense chaos marines rules if not x legion, you use renagade rules) and BA successors lose relic beside sword.

 

The BA one is literal worst case, due to that inane rules decision. That said unlike most, I honestly am not that annoyed by some decision (making CM Strategem not universal for example). /shrug. Any case. While it is annoying, it should be noted that this is why DIY Armies have some strengths over official. Not locked into traits and normally don’t lose that much in the way of relics and warlord traits (and successors named characters aren’t forced into subtype warlord trait) normally.

 

It mostly hurts trait jumpers, who run there army as whatever is trait is best that edition. /shrug. Not saying it’s good or bad, just saying that for all moaning and groaning, that DIY/Successor Forces do have some advantages, over ‘Official’ ones which I feel are commonly overlooked.

[Charlo]

AVE Metallica Charlo  , I think its a surprisingly effective forge world ... it helps counter one of our big drawbacks ...  our boys are speedy ... and assault 30 on the Rangers after moving  7-12 inches means we close to rapid fire range ... really very quickly.

 

Aye, Vanguard moving 7-12" a turn and having no reduction in firepower was pretty tasty when I played. As an allied force it works really well, letting you "keep up" with and support Knights or quickly make for objectives.

 

Malinax transfer sheets are marked as 'last chance to buy' btw Charlo :/ - might be a good time to grab a few.

 

Several alternate Knight heads are also marked.

 

I grabbed two sheets last week (bringing my total to 3 or 4... I forget!) all of which are unused plus a Cerastus head for an eventual Atropos. Managed to get all the Knight Heads I wanted at Warhammer World during aforementioned tournament, so I'm covered for now.

 

I don't plan on having more than the 3 Knights and 4 Armigers I have really...

 

Though ask me that question again in a few months I suppose :P

[Yodhrin]

It's a daft rule that doesn't actually achieve any of the things people claim it achieves - :cuss will simply repaint the chapter symbols on his Ultramarines as red or yellow or green and quite rightly say "that's not the Ultramarines scheme, and I say they're my own chapter, the Azure Omegas", and then you have to waste time and create drama with TOs deciding what exactly constitutes "the official colourscheme" for a chapter and whether an army meets it or not.

 

Or, and bear with me because this is a radical idea; people could devote all three necessary brain cells to remembering what army they're playing against based on what they're told at the start of the match, and painting can remain what it should be - an expression of aesthetic taste.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, with how easy it can be to have multiple Detachments, it's not particularly helpful to have people be able to claim that 3 identically appearing units could have 3 different Chapter Tactics, depending on what Detachment they're from.

Personally, I don't really see what the big deal is. I've never really been a fan of rules-hopping armies depending on what the current flavour-of-the-month is, so people being unable to play their Ultramarines as Salamanders isn't exactly a bad thing in my eyes.

[Yodhrin]

Well, with how easy it can be to have multiple Detachments, it's not particularly helpful to have people be able to claim that 3 identically appearing units could have 3 different Chapter Tactics, depending on what Detachment they're from.

Personally, I don't really see what the big deal is. I've never really been a fan of rules-hopping armies depending on what the current flavour-of-the-month is, so people being unable to play their Ultramarines as Salamanders isn't exactly a bad thing in my eyes.

 

"You should be able to tell units from different detachments apart" is a long, long way away from "paint schemes should be rigidly linked to rules".

 

And again - you're fooling yourself if you think this will make any actual difference to "rules-hopping". If I take an army of Ultramarines and paint their ultima symbol bright red, that's no longer the "official" colourscheme, I can plausibly claim they are a chapter of my own devising and so could use any rules I liked. What are you going to do if you run into that kind of situation, call over a TO? In which case, where is the line drawn, what actually constitutes "an [insert official chapter] colourscheme"? So long as "homebrew" colourschemes are allowed to take whatever rules they like, linking any rules to any colourschemes is a nonsense.

 

There are manifold reasons people might want to use different rules than the "proper" ones, from lacking the money to buy a whole new army or the time to repaint one, to wanting to represent one of the many non-standard fighting formations all these armies will use from time to time, to just liking the sodding colours and not seeing why "I like my techpriests in the traditional red & copper" means you should be forever locked-in to using Mars doctrines. Just because you're not personally interested doesn't make them any less valid.

[Charlo]

 

Or, and bear with me because this is a radical idea; people could devote all three necessary brain cells to remembering what army they're playing against based on what they're told at the start of the match, and painting can remain what it should be - an expression of aesthetic taste.

 

I agree with you, to an extent.

 

This doesn't really help WHW when they're taking photos and such though.

[Ishagu]

I don't mind the rule being that way. The game is more than power gaming, it's also visual narrative.

[Stray]

I don't mind the rule being that way. The game is more than power gaming, it's also visual narrative.

 

I think this is certainly true - especially at the 'flagship' location. If you look further into the event pack, there are even minimum painting standards that are also expected to be met - though these are a lot more subjective and open to interpretation.

 

We're a long way from 40K being a truly 'competitive' game in a sense of balancing, tournament organisation, reward, etc (though things are heading in the right direction, and I certainly see no issue with people enjoying that facet of the game), hell even the dice being used aren't really random. GW dice are pretty but actually pretty poorly made, in testing no number has a true 1 in 6 chance to appear - from memory the study showed a 23% chance of a roll of 1? (yep, that's why you keep missing and failing those saves! )

 

Before I wander off on an even greater tangent, I guess I'm saying that ultimately having a event restriction regarding the (generally) minor flavour rule you have to use, isn't that big a deal in the greater scheme of things. I don't necessarily agree with the policy, hell I'd let you field your Ultramarines as Angry Marines in a game if you wanted. But it's also kinda nice that at the spiritual home of 40K, they try and keep things as fluffy as possible.

 

Edit: Roughly a 29% chance of rolling a 1 - study is here if anyone would like to know more. It's a very interesting read: https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/That's_How_I_Roll_-_A_Scientific_Analysis_of_Dice