Ideas to improve upon Primaris Marines lore

[Blindhamster]

Primaris EC makes sense, somewhere, a primaris black templar must have had the visions associated with the role.

[Sete]

I have solved my problem of melee veterans.

I'll just use 2 Lieutenants with power swords as the Captain body guards.

Add an ancient apothecary, boom super command squad

[Robbienw]

Salamanders do that in the current fluff with their lieutenants

[Blindhamster]

I run two power sword lieutenants with my captain :D

[Sete]

Salamanders do that in the current fluff with their lieutenants

Well nobody told me ;)

[Boldthreat]

Im shocked I'm in the minority on this. Of all the factions, ours glorifies death in the line of duty.

 

13th Black Crusade, Great Rift, Indomitus Crusade, Plague Wars... All these wars and time passed and we still want to hold on to legacy characters that some we're old 200 years ago. These guys are Space Marines, let's progress their respective lore to the ultimate conclusions and replace them.

 

Keep their rules so players can still use their models on the table top, but regulate them to the legacy bin and let's move on.

[Blindhamster]

Worth remembering that in the case of BA and their successors? They jumped forward in time as they reappear at the end of the crusade roughly. So not a lot of time for them to get wiped out considering they didn't during the invasion.

 

But generally yeah I'd have liked to see them do a mass replacement of most special characters across all factions this edition, And keep the existing ones in some kind of "heroes of legend" supplement that would state when their final hour came.

 

But considering how much people shouted about other new stuff, I'm not surprised GW didn't go that route.

[FlamingDeth]

I am just fine with them gradually killing off characters over time, and adding Primaris characters. It doesn't have to be a 1:1 change out though, space marines have a bloat of characters at the moment. They definitely shouldn't be killed off all at once, but suspension of disbelief gets stretched a little bit with how old these guys who are always fighting wars are, moreso with how often their chapters get decimated and they survive on the virtue that we've heard of them before.

[Boldthreat]

There is just some cool things we can do lore wise and table top wise:

 

What if Sicarius ends up a Black Legion special character. Maybe his narcissism couldn't handle being replaced by a newer type of Marine.

 

What if Ventris is now the old man Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, the last legacy Marine of the Ultramarines appointed by Guilliman himself.

 

Pedro Kantor bought it in a fight against the Eldar and his Primaris replacement hunted down his murderers in a Crusade of vengeance.

 

Dante is now Dante the Damned, a special death company hero who just won't die in the suicidal assaults he gets thrown into... A tragic end to the most heroic of Astartes.

 

Lysander is now the IF chapter master... But his need for vengeance against the iron warriors have consumed him to the point where the Fists are depleted and he has been censured by Guilliman himself.

 

Let's move some things around.

[Sea-People]

On killing off named characters:

 

GW would be playing with fire on that front. The precedent in this setting is that named characters have plot armor, grimdark as it may be. People are attached to the characters they love without the expectation that they unceremoniously die a-la Game of Thrones.

 

Just look at how the 80's transformers movie worked out when they tried that...

[Robbienw]

There is just some cool things we can do lore wise and table top wise:

 

What if Sicarius ends up a Black Legion special character. Maybe his narcissism couldn't handle being replaced by a newer type of Marine.

 

What if Ventris is now the old man Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, the last legacy Marine of the Ultramarines appointed by Guilliman himself.

 

Pedro Kantor bought it in a fight against the Eldar and his Primaris replacement hunted down his murderers in a Crusade of vengeance.

 

Dante is now Dante the Damned, a special death company hero who just won't die in the suicidal assaults he gets thrown into... A tragic end to the most heroic of Astartes.

 

Lysander is now the IF chapter master... But his need for vengeance against the iron warriors have consumed him to the point where the Fists are depleted and he has been censured by Guilliman himself.

 

Let's move some things around.

The Sicarus one wouldn’t work - Primaris are not a replacement for classic space marines, they are an additional force.

 

Dante one is pretty ridiculous as well, as he has not fallen to the black rage in 1500 years, and is much love by BA fans. Also, it’s pretty much what they did with tycho except for the part where tycho died.

[Blindhamster]

 

There is just some cool things we can do lore wise and table top wise:

 

What if Sicarius ends up a Black Legion special character. Maybe his narcissism couldn't handle being replaced by a newer type of Marine.

 

What if Ventris is now the old man Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, the last legacy Marine of the Ultramarines appointed by Guilliman himself.

 

Pedro Kantor bought it in a fight against the Eldar and his Primaris replacement hunted down his murderers in a Crusade of vengeance.

 

Dante is now Dante the Damned, a special death company hero who just won't die in the suicidal assaults he gets thrown into... A tragic end to the most heroic of Astartes.

 

Lysander is now the IF chapter master... But his need for vengeance against the iron warriors have consumed him to the point where the Fists are depleted and he has been censured by Guilliman himself.

 

Let's move some things around.

The Sicarus one wouldn’t work - Primaris are not a replacement for classic space marines, they are an additional force.

 

Dante one is pretty ridiculous as well, as he has not fallen to the black rage in 1500 years, and is much love by BA fans. Also, it’s pretty much what they did with tycho except for the part where tycho died.

And Dante got brought back to life via a psychic vision of the angel himself who apparently has plans for him.

 

But yeah I could get behind killing off some characters for sure.

[Boldthreat]

I just want forward direction with the lore. We have galaxy shattering events but everything is the same. It sucks. I want the setting to be grim and dark... That means heroes need to die. Including our "beloved" characters. Hell Guilliman shouldn't even be safe. What if he was brought back to right a few wrongs, update the Marines and then dies for good.

[Subtleknife]

 

There is just some cool things we can do lore wise and table top wise:

 

What if Sicarius ends up a Black Legion special character. Maybe his narcissism couldn't handle being replaced by a newer type of Marine.

 

What if Ventris is now the old man Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, the last legacy Marine of the Ultramarines appointed by Guilliman himself.

 

Pedro Kantor bought it in a fight against the Eldar and his Primaris replacement hunted down his murderers in a Crusade of vengeance.

 

Dante is now Dante the Damned, a special death company hero who just won't die in the suicidal assaults he gets thrown into... A tragic end to the most heroic of Astartes.

 

Lysander is now the IF chapter master... But his need for vengeance against the iron warriors have consumed him to the point where the Fists are depleted and he has been censured by Guilliman himself.

 

Let's move some things around.

The Sicarus one wouldn’t work - Primaris are not a replacement for classic space marines, they are an additional force.

 

Dante one is pretty ridiculous as well, as he has not fallen to the black rage in 1500 years, and is much love by BA fans. Also, it’s pretty much what they did with tycho except for the part where tycho died.

But in most of the recent lore the old marines have been saying how they are numbered. I believe danta says something to that effect in DofB.

[Sete]

 

There is just some cool things we can do lore wise and table top wise:

 

What if Sicarius ends up a Black Legion special character. Maybe his narcissism couldn't handle being replaced by a newer type of Marine.

 

What if Ventris is now the old man Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, the last legacy Marine of the Ultramarines appointed by Guilliman himself.

 

Pedro Kantor bought it in a fight against the Eldar and his Primaris replacement hunted down his murderers in a Crusade of vengeance.

 

Dante is now Dante the Damned, a special death company hero who just won't die in the suicidal assaults he gets thrown into... A tragic end to the most heroic of Astartes.

 

Lysander is now the IF chapter master... But his need for vengeance against the iron warriors have consumed him to the point where the Fists are depleted and he has been censured by Guilliman himself.

 

Let's move some things around.

The Sicarus one wouldn’t work - Primaris are not a replacement for classic space marines, they are an additional force.

 

Dante one is pretty ridiculous as well, as he has not fallen to the black rage in 1500 years, and is much love by BA fans. Also, it’s pretty much what they did with tycho except for the part where tycho died.

Give it some time.

[Robbienw]

 

 

There is just some cool things we can do lore wise and table top wise:

 

What if Sicarius ends up a Black Legion special character. Maybe his narcissism couldn't handle being replaced by a newer type of Marine.

 

What if Ventris is now the old man Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, the last legacy Marine of the Ultramarines appointed by Guilliman himself.

 

Pedro Kantor bought it in a fight against the Eldar and his Primaris replacement hunted down his murderers in a Crusade of vengeance.

 

Dante is now Dante the Damned, a special death company hero who just won't die in the suicidal assaults he gets thrown into... A tragic end to the most heroic of Astartes.

 

Lysander is now the IF chapter master... But his need for vengeance against the iron warriors have consumed him to the point where the Fists are depleted and he has been censured by Guilliman himself.

 

Let's move some things around.

The Sicarus one wouldn’t work - Primaris are not a replacement for classic space marines, they are an additional force.

 

Dante one is pretty ridiculous as well, as he has not fallen to the black rage in 1500 years, and is much love by BA fans. Also, it’s pretty much what they did with tycho except for the part where tycho died.

But in most of the recent lore the old marines have been saying how they are numbered. I believe danta says something to that effect in DofB.

That’s not really the case. In a dark imperium one single Primaris character thought that. And in devastation of Baal some of the BA characters thought that, but they appear to have been mistaken.

 

In the new BA codex it is clearly stated that the Blood Angels and their successors are making classic marines as well as Primaris at the same time.

 

Additionally, in the current timeline up to ‘now’ 120 years or so after the Primaris came on the scene you still have Scouts and Bloodclaws around, and large numbers of normal marines in chapters, so other chapters are obviously still making classic marines as well as the BA.

 

Added to that, GW themselves stated in their Primaris faq from last year that Primaris marines were not a replacement for classic marines, they were additional reinforcements.

[Robbienw]

Anyone read the new Space Wolf codex yet?

 

There is some actually not bad Primaris lore in it. I feel they have toned down a bit the Primaris are awesome buy them now marketing hype in this one.

 

Some interesting things I noted:

 

- None of the large shipment of Primaris Marines that the space wolves were given by gulliman from the indomitus crusade were native fenrisians. It’s not explicitly stated where they are recruited from, but a line in the wolf priest entry suggests they may be terrans.

 

- Some of the senior space wolves were against having them in the chapter. Some of them thought this because the Primaris are not fenrisians. Some of them thought it was a ploy by gulliman to make the chapter more codex. Grimnar had to do a lot of convincing and ordering to get them to accept them.

 

- Many of the Primaris have been to fenris to take the test of morkai to better integrate themselves into the culture of the chapter. Some of them didn’t make it past the test.

 

- There are Primaris rune priests and their powers have manifested in the same unique way as classic SW rune priests.

 

- There is not much in the codex about SW making their own Primaris themselves from native fenrisians. There is one example of a Primaris marine made on fenris in the book and that is is.

 

- Primaris suffer the curse of the wulfen just like classic space wolves.

[Ishagu]

To be fair a 120 years in the Imperium is the equivalent of 120 seconds.

 

Don't expect the regular Astartes to be kept in production once the Primaris are proven and their diversity expanded. This is in the lore, I mean.

[Robbienw]

To be fair a 120 years in the Imperium is the equivalent of 120 seconds.

 

Don't expect the regular Astartes to be kept in production once the Primaris are proven and their diversity expanded. This is in the lore, I mean.

I fully expect classic marines to be kept in production in the lore for the foreseeable future, based on current fluff.

 

I really doubt Primaris marines will ever become a full replacement. I can see in 15 years or so from now or thereabouts when GW need to do more creatively new stuff with marines to make more money, that they will replace both types with a third type of marine that unifies classic and Primaris back together and produces a new standardised line with elements of both predecessors. But Primaris as full replacements - nope cannot see it ever happening now with the way the lore is currently going.

[Blindhamster]

To be fair a 120 years in the Imperium is the equivalent of 120 seconds.

 

Don't expect the regular Astartes to be kept in production once the Primaris are proven and their diversity expanded. This is in the lore, I mean.

 

Robbie is correct, GW outright said primaris were reinforcements, not replacements. And the codexes currently appear to have new non primaris recruits still be a thing.

 

It MAY be that that changes in the future, but for now, there is not real proof it will.

 

To be fair a 120 years in the Imperium is the equivalent of 120 seconds.

 

Don't expect the regular Astartes to be kept in production once the Primaris are proven and their diversity expanded. This is in the lore, I mean.

I fully expect classic marines to be kept in production in the lore for the foreseeable future, based on current fluff.

 

I really doubt Primaris marines will ever become a full replacement. I can see in 15 years or so from now or thereabouts when GW need to do more creatively new stuff with marines to make more money, that they will replace both types with a third type of marine that unifies classic and Primaris back together and produces a new standardised line with elements of both predecessors. But Primaris as full replacements - nope cannot see it ever happening now with the way the lore is currently going.

 

Equally, i think you're overestimating on timelines.

 

I think we'll see a move to a new "type" of marine far far sooner than 15 years, probably more like 2-5 tbh. And they'll be primaris sized but not explicitly called primaris.

[Ishagu]

I don't expect the range will be as filled out for quite a few years, but I don't think they'll replace units like for like either.

[deathspectersgt7]

 

To be fair a 120 years in the Imperium is the equivalent of 120 seconds.

 

Don't expect the regular Astartes to be kept in production once the Primaris are proven and their diversity expanded. This is in the lore, I mean.

 

Robbie is correct, GW outright said primaris were reinforcements, not replacements. And the codexes currently appear to have new non primaris recruits still be a thing.

 

It MAY be that that changes in the future, but for now, there is not real proof it will.

 

To be fair a 120 years in the Imperium is the equivalent of 120 seconds.

 

Don't expect the regular Astartes to be kept in production once the Primaris are proven and their diversity expanded. This is in the lore, I mean.

I fully expect classic marines to be kept in production in the lore for the foreseeable future, based on current fluff.

 

I really doubt Primaris marines will ever become a full replacement. I can see in 15 years or so from now or thereabouts when GW need to do more creatively new stuff with marines to make more money, that they will replace both types with a third type of marine that unifies classic and Primaris back together and produces a new standardised line with elements of both predecessors. But Primaris as full replacements - nope cannot see it ever happening now with the way the lore is currently going.

 

Equally, i think you're overestimating on timelines.

 

I think we'll see a move to a new "type" of marine far far sooner than 15 years, probably more like 2-5 tbh. And they'll be primaris sized but not explicitly called primaris.

 

Yup agree with what these Brothers have posted.

[Commander Dawnstar]

- None of the large shipment of Primaris Marines that the space wolves were given by gulliman from the indomitus crusade were native fenrisians. It’s not explicitly stated where they are recruited from, but a line in the wolf priest entry suggests they may be terrans.

 

So is this a retcon/contradiction of Bjarni Arvisson from Dark Imperium being directly referred to as a Fenrisian (and I mean referred to as such in narration, not merely assumed to be such by another character) or did Guilliman assign all of the Fenrisian-born first wave Primaris to Primaris Chapters like the Wolfspear?

 

It's even directly said of him in Dark Imperium "You, Bjarni, are born of Fenris..." and we're told of how some of his scars are "...attributed to the attentions of Fenris' notorious wildlife during his childhood."

[Panzer]

Or it's Guilliman deciding to bring only non-Fenrisian Primaris to the Space Wolves while bringing the Fenrisian Primaris to successor Chapters. For whatever reason. It sounds very unlikely and more like two authors not knowing of eachothers work tho.

[Felix Antipodes]

For those calling for a wholesale wipe out of characters, GW has already done this - sort of - as over half of the Chapters active when the Rift was formed are either confirmed destroyed or have not been heard from. That's a lot of dead Astartes, along with their characters. Granted, we may not know most of these leading lights as we only knew of a fraction of them from the fluff, but gone or missing they are.

 

~200 years is a blink I the lifespan of an Astartes, especially major figures/veterans who are notoriously hard to kill. Still, until a character is officially name-checked as still going, I'm treating them as gone to the Emperor's side.