Ideas to improve upon Primaris Marines lore

[Panzer]

Are you telling me that none of them will ever turn?

 

Nah, I'm not sure how GW would explain it. I just don't think it'll happen for sake of faction diversity.

[Ishagu]

Are you telling me that none of them will ever turn?

They will in the lore but mostly on an individual basis.

[Boldthreat]

I really do not want Chaos Primaris. I want imperial space marines and chaos space marines fully divorced from each other.

 

Let the Chaos Space Marines keep the ancient Rhinos and Predators and relic power armor.

 

Let Imperial Space Marines evolve with the repulsors and Redemptors and whatever else they are preparing for them.

 

I would consider it a missed opportunity if Chaos ends up with spiky Primaris.

 

Note I am talking table top predominantly here. I'm not against Primaris falling to Chaos in the lore. I want Chaos renegades to feel and look different from contemporary Astartes (Primaris).

[Felix Antipodes]

I believe we will have Primaris renegades down the road, and even a few that fall to chaos, but not in the near future.

 

I have a suspicion that GW's long term plan is to use the old marks of armour, scaled up with swollen chaos power to decrease the size difference, as the visual divide between Imperial and Chaos. With a suitable number of spikes and tentacles to keep Sete happy ;-)

[Wargamer]

Given that the Death Guard now appear Primaris sized (can't speak for TKSons, but definitely Death Guard) this does seem to be the likely route - Chaos Marines will simply be scaled up to match Primaris.
 

This just makes me wonder why they didn't just scale up Marines and make Primaris a new "Mk X" Power Armour...

[Panzer]

They aren't exactly Primaris size tho. They are slightly shorter as they are supposed to be. It's really more Deathwatch size if anything.

[Robbienw]

Yep, primaris marines are actually meant to be bigger and are not a different scale.

[Ishagu]

The Deathguard are fantastic, and the range is a real showcase of what Chaos could be. Unique vehicles, models, rules, etc. The infantry wear bloated Heresy armour.

 

Now that we've seen what Chaos could be, the last thing I want would be Spiky Repulsors and Primaris Marines. Frankly GW can do better lol

[BitsHammer]

I hate formating quote tags, so forgive my liberal use of yellow for responses here:

 

Are they all Crusade era recruits? Did Cawl regularly take in people from a wide array of times during the Imperium? How many, if any, were former Legionaries

None were crusade era recruits. Gulliman and Cawl formulate the Primaris plan sometime between the end of the heresy/start of the Scouring and gulliman being taken out by fulgrim.

 

We have nothing that says that, which was my point. We don't know if he had a mass recruitment drive at the height of the Imperium and spent 10,000 years perfecting this new legion, or if he's regularly been taking recruits the entire time. More information is always good.

None were former space marine legionaries. There is nothing to indicate it’s possible to make an existing marine into a Primaris marine, so at best they would have been legion recruits that were yet to have geneseed implantation.

Dark Millennium has a conversation about how some of the Primaris have memories that aid them in convincing some of the planetary governors to rejoin the 500 worlds, and considering the level of detail involved to do that, I'd say it's more than likely that they were at least undergoing the base procress and training and then converted.
 
That said, the studio has shown a desire to convert regular Marine characters into Primaris, so the door is open to legionaries making the conversion as well. Take a few barely surviving subjects from the time of the Scouring and use them to test the new implants (like the Furnace) and those who survive become Primaris, those who don't were likely going to die anyways.

Cawl must have taken recruits from other places, or it would have been noted over the millenia that recruits were being taking from first founding worlds and the project would have been discovered earlier on. Going by the numbers given in dark imperium and the amount of Primaris gulliman gave out to depleted chapters, Cawl must have had something like 100,000 to 150,000 of them on ice.

I don't recall specific numbers, other than a mention that some chapters only got a single Primaris marine and the tech to make more instead of a squad or even a company's worth. Specific numbers were left vague as far as I can remember likely so it doesn't unintentionally clash with studio lore that was in the works at the time.

Also it is stated in the new SW codex that the space wolf Primaris marines they received from the indomitus crusade were not fenrisian, none of them. It’s suggested they were terran. I think the dark angel Primaris in the War of Secrets book were Terran as well.

I may have missed the Space Wolves thing (only really skimmed their codex to see if they had Wolfspear info so far), but I'm okay with Terrans. Then again I'm building a chapter that usually has the most ties to Terra so I would be a bit biased like that.

[Robbienw]

But we do know it was definitely after the heresy.  There is no way it started before then.  During the heresy Cawl was a junior tech acoloyte from mars stationed in the trisolian system, see the Wolfsbane novel for more information.  He was specifically charged by gulliman with starting the Primaris project after the heresy.

[SickSix]

I almost want to puke when thinking of Primaris and their lore but, it would be more palatable if:

 

- all previous 'dark' and 'cursed' foundings were revealed to be Cawl experimenting with geneseed.

 

-instead of having 10s of thousands of super super duper soldiers in stasis for 10000 years, he was actually working for 10000 years to perfect the process.

 

-when he shows up to wake up G-man, he says 'Hey, I finally have the formula to deliver on your task. Give me marines to convert'

 

- and chapters then willinging volunteer for the process. So its a slow growth of Primaris into the ranks.

 

I may have actually accepted an explanation like that.

[Wargamer]

Just so you know, Fulkes, your yellow text comments are unreadable in mobile mode.

[Morovir]

I didn't think that the Primaris have been in stasis for 10000 years, rather that the original recruits had been taken 10000 years ago and been put into stasis while Cawl worked on the Primaris project, and so the Primaris may have been completed at any point in the intervening 10000 years.

[Ishagu]

I didn't think that the Primaris have been in stasis for 10000 years, rather that the original recruits had been taken 10000 years ago and been put into stasis while Cawl worked on the Primaris project, and so the Primaris may have been completed at any point in the intervening 10000 years.

This

 

Also, as has been mentioned often the lore will be expanded. We need to be careful however, if the lore is too detailed you end up with a problematic and regimented setting. Mystery can also be good.

[Wispy]

I'm completely opposite of Ishagu, I want Primaris to possess all the features and flaws of the Chapters they are part of. If they had their own going on, the factions as a whole just become a generic slurry of disjointed, unconnnected, thematic elements. Primaris need to be a microcosm of the factions they are part of.

One thing to remember is this just aren't fictional factions, they are also product brands. I'm pretty sure GW sees the Primaris as an evolution of the staus quo, not some aberrant direction of their brand that they can take anywhere or retreat from. It can be different yes, but it needs to be familar and comfortable. Space Wolves need to be heroic viking close combat kings who sometimes change into werewolves. Blood Angles need to be sexy Vampire Princes who love to fly and occasionally go insane.

Part of that is looking the part and also playing the part. The sooner the Primaris start becoming familiar and entrenched, we can start warming up to them and move on.

[Panzer]

Blood Angles need to be sexy Vampire Princes who fly and occasionally go insane.

 

 

Best description ever. :D

[BitsHammer]

Just so you know, Fulkes, your yellow text comments are unreadable in mobile mode.

My apologies. I don't use the mobile mode (my old smartphone died a couple years ago and rather than waste hobby money drop a lot of money for a bunch of stuff I barely used anymore, I went with a cheaper flip phone that I only pay on yearly) so I didn't know. I went with yellow because it stands out on the regular site just fine. I went back and mucked with the tags to make it easier to read for mobile as well.

[BitsHammer]

I'm completely opposite of Ishagu, I want Primaris to possess all the features and flaws of the Chapters they are part of. If they had their own going on, the factions as a whole just become a generic slurry of disjointed, unconnnected, thematic elements. Primaris need to be a microcosm of the factions they are part of.

 

One thing to remember is this just aren't fictional factions, they are also product brands. I'm pretty sure GW sees the Primaris as an evolution of the staus quo, not some aberrant direction of their brand that they can take anywhere or retreat from. It can be different yes, but it needs to be familar and comfortable. Space Wolves need to be heroic viking close combat kings who sometimes change into werewolves. Blood Angles need to be sexy Vampire Princes who love to fly and occasionally go insane.

 

Part of that is looking the part and also playing the part. The sooner the Primaris start becoming familiar and entrenched, we can start warming up to them and move on.

Primaris Space Wolves already suffer from the Curse of the Wulfen, so it's only a matter of time before we see the Black Rage manifest in Primaris as well (who likely only can't do it because we don't have a Primars Death Company kit more than it being something like the Lamenters who resisted the curse at the cost of being the Bad Luck Brians of 40k).

[Wispy]

Yeah my big thing with the Primaris Space Wolves is 't the Wulfen flaw but them looking the part. Space Wolves have a unique look. An 'Inceptor' isn't the name any Space Wolf unit should have and it takes a lot of extra bits from outside kits to make them satisfyingly fenrisian. Their wargear and combat role can be fundamentally the same, but add some beards and pelts and call them something like 'Bloodhowlers' and I'm satisfied.

 

Edit: I actually think some unit renames and some Space Wolves styled Primaris HQ models to lead them (Primaris Wolf Lord, Rune and Wolf Priests, etc) would be perfectly satisfying without needing to wolf up the entire Primaris range (as i am happy to kitbash with older kits - there is a lot to work with).

[Ishagu]

When the range is expanded they will. The 4 main marine factions had about 20 years of releases. Primaris have had 1 so far

[Wispy]

When the range is expanded they will. The 4 main marine factions had about 20 years of releases. Primaris have had 1 so far

The thing is i dont see them as their own faction in the vein of the other factions. Its like saying drop pods and hunters and stormhawks are their own faction.

 

But yes, i see your point. There is time for this stuff to be adjusted.

[Wispy]

 

I'm completely opposite of Ishagu, I want Primaris to possess all the features and flaws of the Chapters they are part of. If they had their own going on, the factions as a whole just become a generic slurry of disjointed, unconnnected, thematic elements. Primaris need to be a microcosm of the factions they are part of.

 

One thing to remember is this just aren't fictional factions, they are also product brands. I'm pretty sure GW sees the Primaris as an evolution of the staus quo, not some aberrant direction of their brand that they can take anywhere or retreat from. It can be different yes, but it needs to be familar and comfortable. Space Wolves need to be heroic viking close combat kings who sometimes change into werewolves. Blood Angles need to be sexy Vampire Princes who love to fly and occasionally go insane.

 

Part of that is looking the part and also playing the part. The sooner the Primaris start becoming familiar and entrenched, we can start warming up to them and move on.

Primaris Space Wolves already suffer from the Curse of the Wulfen, so it's only a matter of time before we see the Black Rage manifest in Primaris as well (who likely only can't do it because we don't have a Primars Death Company kit more than it being something like the Lamenters who resisted the curse at the cost of being the Bad Luck Brians of 40k).

 

 

Would like to add... the Primaris who suffered the Curse of the Wulfen only went Berserk, they did not transform.

[Robbienw]

Anyone be read the new BL novel Of Honour and Iron yet?

 

Will put it in spoiler tags in case anyone who wants to read it hasn’t yet, but none of these points are actual major spoilers for the plot itself.

 

This one made me laugh. Chaplain Helios’s reaction upon first seeing Primaris marines, in particular this line:

 

“Their wargear was uncannily similar to that of the Adeptus Astartes, and yet seemed all the more perverse for its differences. The proportions were wrong”

 

My feelings exactly :lol:

 

A good explanation imo as to why Primaris are hard to accept for normal marines and why they won’t be replacing classic marines anytime soon, from Captain Numitor of the 8th company:

 

“Naturally there are those within the hierarchy of the Chapter that met the revelation of our Primaris brethren with surprise.’ Numitor spread a sheaf of transcripts in front of him as he spoke. ‘The Space Marine Chapters are martial societies, inured over the millennia to embrace ritual and tradition and eschew that which is in opposition to those conventions that form our identities and beliefs. Our weapons and armour are thousands of years old, our tactics the unchanged word of the primarch from the days of the Second Founding. Change is not a thing to be accepted quickly among our ranks, nor easily. So you must understand that your existence, even coming from the most sacred of authorities as it does, took time to process.’

Seneca’s thoughts retraced to the darkness of the hive, and the dying words of the Iron Warrior.

‘Our present circumstance,’ the captain continued, ‘will do much to allay that trepidation. The truth of the matter is that there could be one million of you, and we would still be sorely lacking in the forces needed to conduct the wars to come in this crusade. There are too many battles ahead for the Imperium to cast any weapon aside in favour of another, as Quradim has surely taught you.”

 

This is similar to what I have said before as to why Primaris will not be replacing classic marines. Their armour and wargear that the Primaris cannot use are too valuable just to throw away, as is the ancient martial culture of many chapters. The imperium has and can continue to make Primaris marines separately from the production of normal astartes, so why not keep both production lines open and have both.

 

Numitor also states that gulliman decreed they are to integrate the Primaris into their ranks. That’s integrate, not replace, it means to combine two things.

 

[Panzer]

 

 

I'm completely opposite of Ishagu, I want Primaris to possess all the features and flaws of the Chapters they are part of. If they had their own going on, the factions as a whole just become a generic slurry of disjointed, unconnnected, thematic elements. Primaris need to be a microcosm of the factions they are part of.

 

One thing to remember is this just aren't fictional factions, they are also product brands. I'm pretty sure GW sees the Primaris as an evolution of the staus quo, not some aberrant direction of their brand that they can take anywhere or retreat from. It can be different yes, but it needs to be familar and comfortable. Space Wolves need to be heroic viking close combat kings who sometimes change into werewolves. Blood Angles need to be sexy Vampire Princes who love to fly and occasionally go insane.

 

Part of that is looking the part and also playing the part. The sooner the Primaris start becoming familiar and entrenched, we can start warming up to them and move on.

Primaris Space Wolves already suffer from the Curse of the Wulfen, so it's only a matter of time before we see the Black Rage manifest in Primaris as well (who likely only can't do it because we don't have a Primars Death Company kit more than it being something like the Lamenters who resisted the curse at the cost of being the Bad Luck Brians of 40k).

 

 

Would like to add... the Primaris who suffered the Curse of the Wulfen only went Berserk, they did not transform.

 

 

Yeah the actual Curse of the Wulfen is the blood frenzy nearby Space Wolves suffer from. The mutation is a side effect of staying too long in the warp (hinted at being an intended side effect tho). 

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

 

 

I'm completely opposite of Ishagu, I want Primaris to possess all the features and flaws of the Chapters they are part of. If they had their own going on, the factions as a whole just become a generic slurry of disjointed, unconnnected, thematic elements. Primaris need to be a microcosm of the factions they are part of.

 

One thing to remember is this just aren't fictional factions, they are also product brands. I'm pretty sure GW sees the Primaris as an evolution of the staus quo, not some aberrant direction of their brand that they can take anywhere or retreat from. It can be different yes, but it needs to be familar and comfortable. Space Wolves need to be heroic viking close combat kings who sometimes change into werewolves. Blood Angles need to be sexy Vampire Princes who love to fly and occasionally go insane.

 

Part of that is looking the part and also playing the part. The sooner the Primaris start becoming familiar and entrenched, we can start warming up to them and move on.

Primaris Space Wolves already suffer from the Curse of the Wulfen, so it's only a matter of time before we see the Black Rage manifest in Primaris as well (who likely only can't do it because we don't have a Primars Death Company kit more than it being something like the Lamenters who resisted the curse at the cost of being the Bad Luck Brians of 40k).

 

 

Would like to add... the Primaris who suffered the Curse of the Wulfen only went Berserk, they did not transform.

 

 

Yeah the actual Curse of the Wulfen is the blood frenzy nearby Space Wolves suffer from. The mutation is a side effect of staying too long in the warp (hinted at being an intended side effect tho). 

 

 

This may be true for the Primaris (or maybe not, if GW decides to retcon this), but not so for OG Space Wolves. The warp can no doubt accelerate this mutation but it is still part of the Canis Helix. Most aspirants have their gene seed stabilized after the Test of Morkai, but some are still susceptible to the Curse. These two articles summarize nicely.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wulfen

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/40k-lore-there-are-no-wolves-on-fenris.html