b1soul Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 A bit of fanciful thinking... Let's say you were a BL/GW writer in charge of introducing the concept of Primaris SM into 40K and reviving dear Roboute. These two requirement are non-negotiable. What is within your freedom to decide is how this is done. I know a lot of you have issues with Cawl...I'm not a huge fan of a "one character solves all plot requirements" approach. How would you have done it. Perhaps keep Cawl as an interesting character but give him a cabal or faction? How about involving DAoT AI or tech to accomplish the truly difficult tasks of improving Astartes and reviving a Chaos poisoned Primarch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 How about Cawl being a lunatic scientist who literally steals the cloned/copied brains of his former superiors to turn himself into an amalgam of dozens of Mechanicus/m adepts' worth of collected knowledge, while also making him an unstable ally who's more consumed with his wild experiments 10k years later to show restraint, and even crosses the line on artificial experiements with his own brain-backup-emissary? Like, having all that "Cawl did everything and even showed the Emperor how it's done!" stuff from the Codex being utterly embellished and a result of Cawl brainjacking his actual superiors because he's a kleptomaniac who is playing the system established by the Mechanicum of Mars and earning a lot of enmity from his peers, while being only grudgingly accepted as a necessary "evil" by the dudes currently running the Imperium, especially the priesthood of Mars, and nobody trusting him enough to hand him the position he so desperately desires and believes he deserves? And that's just the stuff already in there. On top of that, I'd have Omegon hand over the Primarch Gene-Tech to Guilliman during the Scouring, where Cawl had another century or so to grow his status and expertise. Have the duel at Eskrador get a neat twist, and prompt Guilliman to even get in touch with Cawl in the first place, since Cawl's got a penchant for the biologis branch. Connect the Deliverance Lost Gene-Tech with Guilliman and Cawl and you got untainted Primarch tech that'd also allow Cawl a little bit of leeway from what Fabius had - the warp-tainted samples. On top of that, the Sysypheum still has the Heart of Iron, which manages to somehow repair its wearer even while in stasis, at a cost. Install the thing to Guilliman post-wounding and have Cawl base his designs around that. It took him millennia of work and study to get the suit finished in the first place, which is ample time to make it reasonable for him to figure out some ancient piece of tech that has been introduced via the Iron Warriors in the Heresy years ago. I'd be highly against bringing AI in any real capacity to the table. That just sounds more offensive than Cawl has ever been. Involving the Dark Age of Technology as a crutch to make something like that happen screams Deus Ex Machina in a way Cawl doesn't, as an actual in-universe character they are building up from the Heresy as well now. No, instead we'd best have some super mega technology nobody knew existed show up and fix everything? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I've always just gone with a combination of what DarkChaplain has above, combined with the fact that he doesn't remember half of what he's done, to have it that Primaris-wise, he didn't invent jack. He took the memories of someone who worked alongside the Emperor, and found the data of several organs from the Primarch Project that weren't able to be "downsized" in time for the start of the Great Crusade, found the 95% complete work, finished it off in the subsequent 10,000 years, forgot about finding it, and thought "damn I'm a genius! This was all me!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I need to think this through properly as not long woke up but as a gut instinct reaction... Have the Imperials capture Fabius Bile and all his research etc. Turns out he was very close to inventing better Astartes. Have Crawl be the guy who adapts and perfects this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 Legit question...if the Emp, an immortal supremely intelligent being with (I presume) an eidetic memory, lived through the DAoT...how come so much DAoT tech was lost. Shouldn't much of it be in the Emp's head? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Well He’s meant to be practical. So he probably only designed things that He thought He needed for His Crusade. It’s easy to say that He should just reinvent things but He was probably on a fairly strict timeline to go off inventing everything again. He was meant to be rebuilding the Terras oceans as a side project so He’s probably busy enough with that and the webway. Also, regarding Cawl and his apparent genius ability it’s all been explained with his stolen idea about brains in jars. It’s a little similar to the AI in the Of Mars series but if increasing brain capacity makes you more intelligent I can see why the Mechanicus would do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osteoclast Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Have Cawl be a Master Magos Biologis in charge of testing the purity and whatnot of tithed geneseed as well as raising new Foundings. For the past ten thousand years, he’s also been focusing on trying to undo the damage done to the Raptor project. The Raven Guard and their successors have been tithing above and beyond the norm in order to further this project, explaining their low numbers. Once, they thought they had succeeded. They were wrong and it turned out to be the Cursed Founding. Now, especially that they have the geneseed of a returned Primarch available, they believe they have truly succeeded, for the most part. They can’t produce Marines like they could in the Great Crusade (but depopulate a Terran hive or two and you have an awful lot of candidates for the Indomitus Crusade), but they are bigger, faster, and have lower mutation and rejection rates, just like the Raptors of old. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 @Osteoclast Nice...perhaps all Cawl did was somewhat improve upon Corax's Raptor project Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 i know there's a tendency towards polymaths in entertainment these days, but just because the emp is a genius doesn't mean he's proficient in every possible field. and to what degree is his mind eidetic or photographic (two different things). and to what degree is his mind united? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 I'm pretty sure the Emp is proficient in numerous scientific fields, perhaps not every field. Maybe his focus is genetics. His memory capacity should be quite impressive to put it mildly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 i'm sure it is, but my take on him is he's forgotten more than most of humanity has recorded. i don't know how that gels with depictions in the fiction or with his "sight" and psychic powers genetics definitely seems to be his favourite area to play in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5139980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 how to fix Cawl: Cawl in his inventions, and arrogance collects the minds of other great Admechs through the last 10k years. in his naivety he plugged their brains into his body to learn from them, and use there knowledge at a pool. The great brains he's collected over the years, over come cawl. in their revenge, for cawl either, Using great loyal minds as hard drives, and refusing to let them free. The great conglermate of minds of the ADmech eject the real cawls mind. And thus the collective becomes Cawl the Superior. THey decide that cawl, is great for innovation and invention, although he lacks he knowledge to complete these ideas, so they do what any great admech would. THey plug cawls brain into a computer. And thus the real Cawl becomes Cawl the Inferior. -------------------------------------------------------------- On primaris: Corax has been shadow walking throughout the millenia assisting Cawl on his works. Bringing with him the notes he and the emperor used to make the mega marines, and assisting cawl in normalizing them as much as possible. these things fix cawl and priamris for me. ------------------------------------------------------------- add a dash of these How about Cawl being a lunatic scientist who literally steals the cloned/copied brains of his former superiors to turn himself into an amalgam of dozens of Mechanicus/m adepts' worth of collected knowledge, while also making him an unstable ally who's more consumed with his wild experiments 10k years later to show restraint, and even crosses the line on artificial experiements with his own brain-backup-emissary? Like, having all that "Cawl did everything and even showed the Emperor how it's done!" stuff from the Codex being utterly embellished and a result of Cawl brainjacking his actual superiors because he's a kleptomaniac who is playing the system established by the Mechanicum of Mars and earning a lot of enmity from his peers, while being only grudgingly accepted as a necessary "evil" by the dudes currently running the Imperium, especially the priesthood of Mars, and nobody trusting him enough to hand him the position he so desperately desires and believes he deserves? And that's just the stuff already in there. On top of that, I'd have Omegon hand over the Primarch Gene-Tech to Guilliman during the Scouring, where Cawl had another century or so to grow his status and expertise. Have the duel at Eskrador get a neat twist, and prompt Guilliman to even get in touch with Cawl in the first place, since Cawl's got a penchant for the biologis branch. Connect the Deliverance Lost Gene-Tech with Guilliman and Cawl and you got untainted Primarch tech that'd also allow Cawl a little bit of leeway from what Fabius had - the warp-tainted samples. On top of that, the Sysypheum still has the Heart of Iron, which manages to somehow repair its wearer even while in stasis, at a cost. Install the thing to Guilliman post-wounding and have Cawl base his designs around that. It took him millennia of work and study to get the suit finished in the first place, which is ample time to make it reasonable for him to figure out some ancient piece of tech that has been introduced via the Iron Warriors in the Heresy years ago. I'd be highly against bringing AI in any real capacity to the table. That just sounds more offensive than Cawl has ever been. Involving the Dark Age of Technology as a crutch to make something like that happen screams Deus Ex Machina in a way Cawl doesn't, as an actual in-universe character they are building up from the Heresy as well now. No, instead we'd best have some super mega technology nobody knew existed show up and fix everything? Have Cawl be a Master Magos Biologis in charge of testing the purity and whatnot of tithed geneseed as well as raising new Foundings. For the past ten thousand years, he’s also been focusing on trying to undo the damage done to the Raptor project. The Raven Guard and their successors have been tithing above and beyond the norm in order to further this project, explaining their low numbers. Once, they thought they had succeeded. They were wrong and it turned out to be the Cursed Founding. Now, especially that they have the geneseed of a returned Primarch available, they believe they have truly succeeded, for the most part. They can’t produce Marines like they could in the Great Crusade (but depopulate a Terran hive or two and you have an awful lot of candidates for the Indomitus Crusade), but they are bigger, faster, and have lower mutation and rejection rates, just like the Raptors of old. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I’ve always believed that the golden throne is also an Akashic reader like the silver throne on Mars. So “looking up” knowledge is almost like a google search looking for knowledge amongst the cosmos. Hence He can turn His mind to many different tasks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 You guys think bringing back Guilliman via Cawl & Aeldari would be a good way to go? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I think it’s alright. I’ve wanted plot progression for decades. Of course I’d like others to be brought back to but I really want it to be done via a trilogy of novels (per Primarch) so that everything can be detailed correctly. I feel bringing Guilliman back via Gathering storm books was not a good idea. I need lore. I need detail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I like the story progression* and in particular Cadia being destroyed and the warp rift splitting the Galaxy / Imperium in two. Personally I felt RG coming back and the Primaris seemed terribly convenient and almost Deus Ex Machina and would have worked better if that had been the NEXT story progression. Also personally not a fan that the Indomitus Crusade raged for 100 years and is already over! THAT crusade could/should be the current now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Legit question...if the Emp, an immortal supremely intelligent being with (I presume) an eidetic memory, lived through the DAoT...how come so much DAoT tech was lost. Shouldn't much of it be in the Emp's head? Well, he preserved the ability to watch cat videos on-demand, but lost the cure to cancer. Priorities and inbox space. He's ultimately human, after all. ***************** To answer your original question, as you posed it: Simply put, more gritty (even....dare I say...grimdark?) realism and less handwaving. Hidden Content One of the last things Guilliman did before his long unintentional nap was to try improve the ability to recruit, train, heal, and retain Astartes. With Great Crusade dead as a doornail and its architect, Big E himself, almost as dead, Guilliman in all of his thoughtful farseeing (I say that in all sincerity, RG basher though I am) realizes that old way simply can't be sustained. So he commissions projects to investigate how to do that. Then he gets injured and goes down and, just like the rest of the Imperium, his projects decay, wither, die, are resurrected, and evolve to the point that the few still working on them don't even recall the original intent. Part of the project is wiped from existence by the Inquisition because they think some magos are getting dangerously close to discovering the Grey Knights. And so on. Guilliman wakes up and, after getting over his hangover, asks about Project Ultima. Calgar and co are like "that new indie band? Yea they're alright, but what's that got to do with anything?" So Gulliman tracks down all the tendrils of the project to see what progress has been made and in doing so discovers just how much the Imperium has devolved (hmmm...convenient plot device for him to discover things like the Inquisition, Grey Knights, etc...). Fast forward a few weekly episodes and as RG is lapsing into post-awakening depression # 3 he finds out that, despite....in spite....of all the decay over the millennia, progress was actually made. There may be hope! It's fragmented and unproven, but the thousands of years of work has in fact revealed that the Emperor's design can be replicated...or....or...<gasp!> even....improved.... Right when RG is ready to give in to his despair ("why me? why did I survive when my betters did not? if only I had the Dauntless Few! Brothers...I need you, damn it!") he realizes that basic humans accomplished this research. Yes, puny pink mushy regular ol' 'umies did this. It might have taken them 10,000 years, but they did it. And that's why he's here. Because they need him. Need the Space Marines. That's why the Emperor created this--all of this!--after all. He has to find a way to succeed. He must. He will. ...but as always, time is not on his side. He can't afford another 10,000 years of R&D. So RG goes against type and willingly betrays his own character. He finds a mad scientist Magos named Cawl to rapidly fill in the blanks and complete the work. Cawl is...sketchy. Like that neighbor who mows your lawn for you while you're on vacation and helps change your engine oil, but who beats his dogs and always smells funny. But BG goes against his gut and enlists Cawl's help anyway. And it works. For now. But RG should have listened to his inner Jeff Goldblum ( https://youtu.be/4PLvdmifDSk ). And stuff starts going wrong. Good thing a backup plan was created. The ability to quickly create New Astartes was such a success, that he was confident enough to insert a safety measure: shortened life spans. Primaris are all ticking time bombs. In stark contrast to their predecessors who are functionally immortal, Primaris "expire" after a certain period of time. And guess what happens when these super-human super-warriors find out they were intentionally created to drop dead at certain point in time? https://youtu.be/O5MDGMvrSJc Fully half the newly created Primaris Marines beeline for the Eye of Terror in the desperate attempt to prolong the inevitable. Abaddon raises an eyebrow. First Cadia is broken, now warriors that rival his 10,000 year old veterans appear on his doorstep begging to be taken in? Chaos Ascendant, indeed. http://i.imgur.com/daNBY.gif And Guilliman realizes his folly and just how much like father the son can also be. Once more Guilliman starts sliding into depression has his attempt to secure the Imperium once and for all has in fact only bolstered his enemies and further empowered Chaos. Space Marines--and their genesires--Know No Fear....but can they no despair? Guilliman is not sure he can handle it any more especially as he sees the resolve of his own Ultramarines shrink a bit as word reaches them of the Primaris' betrayal. And when word reaches the remnants of Cadia....that their sacrifice was all for nought....how will they handle it? If the mighty Space Marines, Ultramarines at that, are crushed by the news, then surely mere mortals will be unable to bear the burden? Surely they will.... ...ask for more ammo? "Well that makes targeting easier: just aim in any direction!" One Cadian veteran quips as he laces up his flak armor. "They always said it took a full las mag to down a Space Marine," says another adjusting the strap on his helmet. "So how do we deal with these bigger Space Marines? Simple! Two las mags!" The quips go on and on among the common soldiery: "Can't wait to see ol' Abby's face when 'e sees the lot of us comin' for 'im!" "Yea...'el'll be soilin' 'is pow'r arm'r!" "About time. I was getting bored of this pretty place. Too many trees. Not enough bunkers. Can't wait to get home." The battered, bloodied, depleted forces of Cadia are the first to grab their gear march probably to the disembarkation fields. And for the second time in so many years since his re-awakening Gulliman is reminded of what this--all of this!--is about. He will not need a third reminder. This time he will do it right. Because this time, he will not do it on his own. "But sire," Calgar pleads. "You only just came back, how can you take off on some fool errand already?" "Because it must work. Because we--all of us--must work together. I can't do this on my own." Guilliman replies. "We can't go on without you, without your kind, sir!" Calgar continues. "You won't," Guilliman says, handing the Emperor's Sword to Calgar. "You understand my instructions?" Calgar can barely lift the Emperor's Sword, but respectfully takes it from his genesire. "Yes, my lord. They will be followed to a letter. But lord, I must ask....where are you going?" Guilliman looks to the strange Eldar witch and bodyguard that have been allowed to enter the palace on Maccrage. "Into the unknown, my son. For only then can we learn from our mistakes. From our collective mistakes. To seek one who has erred just as we have." He nods to the xenos and they bow, beckoning to come with them. "To find my brother Corax." <FIN> Epilogue: Hidden Content Calgar looks around the dark hall cautiously. Though allies, he can't help but feel the mistrust oozing from every stone. "And he said to do what, cousin?" Azrael asks looking pensively at his circle of trusted advisors. Calgar sees the strange robed halflings silently shuffling out bearing the Emperor's Sword like pallbearers. Calgar clears his throat: "he said i was to give it to one who's old blade had been broken. That it was finally time for the roles to be reversed." Azrael raises an eyebrow. And somewhere deep below the meters of rock, in a place long forgotten, a pair of eyes open. My biggest peeves about the current Dark Imperium-era stuff is that RG is basically fulfilling all the memes about Matt Ward. And the Primaris fit right into that, as does Bellisarius Cawl (so far). In a setting with 18 other dudes, to have one so massively elevated above the others (I mean, he's got the frickin' Emperor's own sword for crying out loud) is just so damn lazy and ruins the dynamism between them all. I mean, FC Barcelona is the only team people care about, right? As Gabriel Seth succinctly put it: "he'll make Ultramarines of us all!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I think a big part of the problem is when you compare the End Times books to the Gathering Storm books. The End Times spaced things out, gave actual plot and details, and took the time to actually explain things. The Gathering Storm books just had "and then they went here, and a thing happened, so they went over there, when another thing happened, and then a battle happened, but Chaos lost! Yay Imperium!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 In some respects I don't mind the "facts as presented". E.g. Cawl *claims* to have done as he's done. Or is so-reported by Imperial agencies. But I think allowing the room for nuance, and better: using that room, is the best way. E.g. "A Magos called Cawl who hasn't been widely known down the aeons, but seems to be known to Guilliman, claims...". Not "Cawl did this". Y'know? I prefer to see it implied that Cawl has an excellent support network, maybe was a political mastermind that seized control of the project (and also possibly saved it, but is that just more politics?). Or that he seems to be in cahoots with more dubious Martian elements, and his tower of favours may be so wobbly that the whole thing has been collapsing for nine millennia; the release of the Primaris, equipment and Guilliman's armour was his last roll of the dice. More than all of that, give him some support staff, some history, some rivals. A four-dimensional life. Enough text was allocated to him through TGS that that could have been done multiple times over. Rich, deep, varied, enchanting. But it wasn't done that way. We got a strange passage with the Orks, a lot of walking, and a lot of excerpts from the Genie's "Prince Ali" parade song. (Overblown, surprisingly catchy nonsense.) I'd be really keen to see him rehabilitated into Belle Carl. Successor of a few Magi who may or may not be Belisarius Cawl the original. Invoke a lot of the fun of the Mechanicus, but also add in some serious character. ------ More than all that, I'd like to see Celestine and Greyfax have deep life given to them. Again: support staff, rivals, a history, a four-dimensional life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 Yeah, I think Cawl shouldn't be a one-man army. He should be a member of a Mechanicus cabal or subfaction dedicated and honour-bound to achieving Guilliman's Primaris project and possibly reviving G-Man himself. This cabal also received Raptor gene-tech from Guilliman sometime during the Scouring and dips into some forbidden DAoT technologies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 In a broader sense, it appeals to me across all of 40k. Things are always feeling at their best when we're not perpetuating Great Men Theory of History. Even, perhaps especially, with heroes and special characters, y'know? Like pains should be taken to show that the most valued person, by Ortan Cassius, isn't himself, or the Emperor, or whoever. It's his team of speech-writers. Ortan is great extemporating, but he draws on a wealth of modern speech writers who're better in-touch woth local, Chapter and regional morale factors, celebrities, news etc, to expand his ability to be a gopd Chaplain. Or how Creed is at his absolute best when he has a team of excellent officers feeding him information and able to fill on details appropriately based on well-shared information. Or how Calgar could only strangle so many avatars because a team of Reclusiam, Armoury and Librarius serfs/officers worked round the clock to continually repair and re-sanctify the gauntlets of Ultramar. Not to mention the network of scouts and thunderhawk pikots scouring the battlefield for viable avatars to go after. It can still be larger than life, even heroic, even without robbing or diminishing the character's accolades. Rather it just... expands on them. Sheds light onto the complexities of getting things done. Of course, once that's in place, you'd have comfortable room for a few maverick loners to "get the job done", but whilst Private Sly Marbo and Norg Deddog, or Shas'o Mo'nat Kais, I can tolerate or indulge, its difficult to do so when they're the heads of huge organisations. E.g. a Chapter Master and Captain should be "one-wound" people, in the lore, albeit who've been well-served by an unholy number of bodyguards. Maybe an unusual tanker, here or there, but I sometimes feel 40k misses out on the role of Chapter Champions (etc) by always making the leaders be the biggest badasses. It'd be nice if another one of Carl's successes was to inadvertently cultivate a rival a la Skarsnik - a goblin whose wits and strengths and threat chiefly involve corraling and organising millions of other greenskins, not in being a personal badass who can stand in for millions. Of course, for the Mechanicus, it's *plausible* that they can be formidable badass and high-end leader, but I'd have bought it even more if they'd laboured the absurd effort that Carl puts in to being able to lead from the front. How soon could the Primaris have been ready if he'd not spent so much effort being certified an Archmagos Dominus, and instead just lead from a spaceship like everyone else? ---- Even subverting those questions and showing how the original text is *perfect* for Carl would be nice. I'd love to see it (and I recall the likes of Josh Reynolds, ADB and others have expressed interest...), but for my less competent mind, I'm still aching for more compelling answers shy of a gargantuan multivolume epic on the topic. And for what it's worth: I loved the little passages about Carl in "Wrath of the Omnissiah". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I’m of the very strong belief that Cawl needs a novel that explains what he did during the GS including his activities on Cadia and resurrecting Guilliman. I also believe that only Chris Wraight or Josh Reynolds would be capable of writing such a book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5140738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 If it was up to me Cawl would be a shard of the Emperor but he rebirths New Primarchs to lead the Legions and all the traitors surrender. Yeah I could live with that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5141117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 @ Mellow Cawl needs at least a trilogy IMO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5141256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Cawl as Steve Jobs..... He's the idea man who has a brilliant staff that does all the real work while he gets the credit... …. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349396-alternatives-to-belisarius-cawl-solves-all/#findComment-5141320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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